Combat Talents

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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Karilyn on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:13 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:[+2] Perfect Focus [Inspired by LoganAura]
You gain resist 4 until the end of your next turn. At the start of your next turn, if you have not taken damage since you last used this ability, you gain 2 more pips.
You have no idea how much I want to take that, Slashback and Punishing Blow, and spam them all day long.

Spoiler:
[-2] Punishing Blow - Immediate Reaction
Trigger – An enemy damages one of your allies with an attack.
Effect – Deal 1d12 damage to the triggering enemy.

[-2] Slashback - Immediate Interrupt
Trigger – A creature hits you with an attack.
Deal 1d12 damage to the triggering creature.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  The Warrior of Many Faces on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:48 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Zarhon wrote:There are a bunch I designed with minotaurs in mind.

[+2]Drop and give me twenty!
Target enemy skips it's turn and starts doing pushups. It gains 3 resistance on the following turn, for one turn.

[-2]Furious charge
Deals 1d10 damage to target enemy and knocks it on top of another one, making the enemy act as adjacent to it until the end of it's round.

(e.g. if there are creatures "a", "b", "c", "d", creature "a" can be knocked onto creature "c". Hitting "c" or "a" afterwards will damage every creature)

[-6]Get up RIGHT NOW!
The sheer intimidating power of your voice "motivates" an unconscious ally to get up. They immediately recover with 1d4 hit points and perform one of the three (their choice) effects of their special ability.

Get Up Right Now is good enough to be added as-is I think. So awesome. Might be good for either the new Bard *or* the Warlord. I love the mechanic of Drop and Give Me 20 too, but it's hilariously unfair against Solo monster encounters. You can just keep gaining PiPs while skipping the Solo's turn entirely. Furious charge is a sweet idea too and opens cool new build options, but I'm worried it's a bit confusing. Perhaps if it just let you re-order the enemies' positioning?

Personally, it doesn't exactly sound particularly bard-y to me, unless you make it music and call it "Scare Chord" or something... still, things might have changed in 4e, so for all I know, this fits the new Bard perfectly.

I have to agree, Drop and Give Me 20 could use either a PiP cost rather than gain, or some mechanic to keep someone from abusing it against a single foe. Maybe you have to make a Persuasion check to get them to do it? Then again, that's mixing the RP and combat systems, so I dunno if that'll work.

As for Furious Charge... well, I didn't find it all that confusing. But I do find it odd that knocking a foe on top of another foe only damages the one on top.

EDIT: Whoops, missed half a page of posts somehow. Derp. If a point in this post has been made already, feel free to ignore it.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:27 pm

Karilyn wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:[+2] Perfect Focus [Inspired by LoganAura]
You gain resist 4 until the end of your next turn. At the start of your next turn, if you have not taken damage since you last used this ability, you gain 2 more pips.
You have no idea how much I want to take that, Slashback and Punishing Blow, and spam them all day long.

Spoiler:
[-2] Punishing Blow - Immediate Reaction
Trigger – An enemy damages one of your allies with an attack.
Effect – Deal 1d12 damage to the triggering enemy.

[-2] Slashback - Immediate Interrupt
Trigger – A creature hits you with an attack.
Deal 1d12 damage to the triggering creature.

*grins* Excellent. That sounds like a very fun option. And it seems powerful but fair too. Might end up lowering it to resist 3 of course, but I was thinking about doing that anyway. Resist 4 is a lot.

Karilyn wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:[-2] Venom-Serpent's Strike - Immediate Reaction. [Inspired by LoganAura]
Trigger - A creature deals damage to you.
The triggering creature suffers 5 ongoing damage (save ends).
An immediate problem I see.... Ongoing Damage takes place at the start of a creature's turn. Saves are done at the end of a creatures turn. If a creature deals damage to you, then it's immediately going to get a save to resist the effect, before next turn where the damage would be dealt. That would make the ability quite underpowered at [-2].

Very good point. We could either up the efficiency (1 PiP cost or more ongoing damage) or change the effect to something else. Anyone have an opinion?

Philadelphus wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Protective Bubble is a very cool ability too, but I feel it's undercosted. Resist 5 is enough to almost cancel out the average d10 of damage... Which is close to what most enemies do. 4 pips for making the rest of your team almost immune to damage for a turn it pretty hefty. Perhaps make it 5 pips for all allies, 2 pips for one ally or less if you attach a coin-flip to it (if you win the flip, the ally/allies have resist 5).
Thanks! I'd like to keep it a group-wide power, and what you mentioned about average damage is very helpful (mainly that Resist 5 acts almost as invulnerability), so let's up the cost to -6 to make it a nice expensive-but-hopefully-worth-it bubble shield. Revised version:

[-6] Protective Bubble
All allies have Resistance 5 until the end of your next turn.

Hmm... Seems fair, since Resistance doesn't stack. Anyone else have a thought on this?

The Warrior of Many Faces wrote:[
Personally, it doesn't exactly sound particularly bard-y to me, unless you make it music and call it "Scare Chord" or something... still, things might have changed in 4e, so for all I know, this fits the new Bard perfectly.

It's less about fright and more about, "the power of your voice". Could easily be a Warlord power of course, kind of fits better there. Could change the name too so it fits better too.

The Warrior of Many Faces wrote:I have to agree, Drop and Give Me 20 could use either a PiP cost rather than gain, or some mechanic to keep someone from abusing it against a single foe. Maybe you have to make a Persuasion check to get them to do it? Then again, that's mixing the RP and combat systems, so I dunno if that'll work.


It's very tempting, but yeah... Don't want those systems to mix. We want an athletics/precision build to be able to take the cool powers they want too. I'm sure we can find a way to make it work.

The Warrior of Many Faces wrote:As for Furious Charge... well, I didn't find it all that confusing. But I do find it odd that knocking a foe on top of another foe only damages the one on top.


It's not too confusing in terms of what it does... It'll be confusing to keep track of as the battle goes on. It's called a "memory problem" or "tracking problem" in game design. That's what I meant by being confusing. =)
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Demonu on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:53 pm

Minor question here about Special moves:
- can rolling a die for a special move retrigger a special move?

Asking this because in my session, someone used Derpy's Lightning, rolled an 8 and used Derpy's lightning again, chaining attacks for massive damage.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  LoganAura on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:56 pm

Demonu wrote:Minor question here about Special moves:
- can rolling a die for a special move retrigger a special move?

Asking this because in my session, someone used Derpy's Lightning, rolled an 8 and used Derpy's lightning again, chaining attacks for massive damage.

Yeah. Heat Wave had done so in like session two of Stairc's game, I think.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:05 pm

LoganAura wrote:
Demonu wrote:Minor question here about Special moves:
- can rolling a die for a special move retrigger a special move?

Asking this because in my session, someone used Derpy's Lightning, rolled an 8 and used Derpy's lightning again, chaining attacks for massive damage.

Yeah. Heat Wave had done so in like session two of Stairc's game, I think.

Yep. Derpy's Lightning was specifically designed to let that be possible, as was Buccaneer Blaze.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Demonu on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:08 pm

Posting here because I'm not sure how to figure it out with the manuals.
- do ongoing damage and vulnerability stack?

Meaning that if someone has 5 ongoing damage and 5 vulnerability, does he or she take 10 damage at the start of his or her turn?
Or does vulnerability only count for attacks made against the target?

Because if it does, DoT's become a very reliable source of constant damage.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:07 pm

Demonu wrote:Posting here because I'm not sure how to figure it out with the manuals.
- do ongoing damage and vulnerability stack?

Meaning that if someone has 5 ongoing damage and 5 vulnerability, does he or she take 10 damage at the start of his or her turn?
Or does vulnerability only count for attacks made against the target?

Because if it does, DoT's become a very reliable source of constant damage.

Yes, yes they do. Vulnerability applies to all damage. Cool
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Sable Shroud on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:36 pm

Is posting new things still open? If so, ima just leave these here then.

[-7] Juggernaut
You gain resist 3 and do not fall unconscious at 0 hp, and are not defeated until you reach -90% hp for the rest of the encounter.

[-6+X] Act as one.
Choose an ability, and use it as a free action, paying the full PiP cost. In addition all allies may take a free standard action, but may only use abilities that cost the same or less than the ability you took. Neither you or your allies may use abilities that grant PiPs with this action.

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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:41 pm

Sable Shroud wrote:Is posting new things still open? If so, ima just leave these here then.

[-7] Juggernaut
You gain resist 3 and do not fall unconscious at 0 hp, and are not defeated until you reach -90% hp for the rest of the encounter.

[-6+X] Act as one.
Choose an ability, and use it as a free action, paying the full PiP cost. In addition all allies may take a free standard action, but may only use abilities that cost the same or less than the ability you took. Neither you or your allies may use abilities that grant PiPs with this action.

Posting new things is always going to be open from now until the end of time. All development is going to be community driven. =)

Juggernaut is interesting... I like the unique "do not fall unconscious when you go below 0" ability. It's a unique talent, flavorful and cool. I can definitely see us adding it in.

I'm not sure how Act as One is supposed to work though. Can you clarify it?
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Sable Shroud on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:50 pm

Basically, the player using this chooses a attack or what have you, and pays the pip cost of that ability in addition to the -6 from act as one. He/she gets to use that ability as part of Act as one, and every other allied player gets to use an ability that costs the same or less as a free action with a limitation that they can't use abilities that gain PiPs.

EX:
Say Player A uses this to activate an ability that costs 5 pips. That player would burn 11 pips, use the 5 pip ability, and give every other player the option to immediately use one of their abilities that cost between -0 and -5 pips as a free action right then.

Basically player A could burn 7 pips to give everyone a chance to use a -1, 8 pips for a -2, 9 pips for a -3, etc etc

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Re: Combat Talents

Post  The Warrior of Many Faces on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:56 pm

Sable Shroud wrote:Is posting new things still open? If so, ima just leave these here then.

[-7] Juggernaut
You gain resist 3 and do not fall unconscious at 0 hp, and are not defeated until you reach -90% hp for the rest of the encounter.

[-6+X] Act as one.
Choose an ability, and use it as a free action, paying the full PiP cost. In addition all allies may take a free standard action, but may only use abilities that cost the same or less than the ability you took. Neither you or your allies may use abilities that grant PiPs with this action.

Based on the clarified description of Act as One, you might want to have the PiP cost be phrased as [-(6+X)]. I know, it looks really mathy, but it clarifies that you're not necessarily gaining any PiPs. As for the abilities themselves, I like them both. Juggernaut looks good as-is. However, I'm not sure about the PiP cost here... could just be me, but it seems a bit low for something that allows the whole party to attack at once.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Sable Shroud on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:02 pm

Yeah, the [-(6+X)] does actually work better.

As for the cost, is it really low? I mean for the whole party to use their really big abilities, the initial user would have to pay out something like 14 or 15 pips. Perhaps add in something where the other party members have to pay half their pip cost, rounded down?

What I figured for this one was kinda a near end of boss fight OHCRAP button, that would allow people to a lot of damage to the boss, but would also let them get some healing or buffs off.

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Re: Combat Talents

Post  The Warrior of Many Faces on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:05 pm

Sable Shroud wrote:Yeah, the [-(6+X)] does actually work better.

As for the cost, is it really low? I mean for the whole party to use their really big abilities, the initial user would have to pay out something like 14 or 15 pips. Perhaps add in something where the other party members have to pay half their pip cost, rounded down?

What I figured for this one was kinda a near end of boss fight OHCRAP button, that would allow people to a lot of damage to the boss, but would also let them get some healing or buffs off.

As I said, this could just be me imagining things. Feel free to ignore me. Definitely a handy ability regardless.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:09 pm

It's very cool, but pretty confusing. Can you find a way to simplify it? Also, try making a variation that only affects 1 ally.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Sable Shroud on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:20 pm

letsee...

[-(X+6)] Act as One
Use any other of your currently equipped abilities that cost PiPs, and as an additional cost, pay 6 PiPs. All allies on your team are allowed to use any ability costing an equal or lesser amount of PiPs to your ability as an immediate action. You may not use this action to use an ability that increases your total PiP count.

Something like that?

And for the 1 ally version:

[-(X+3)] Help me out here!
Use any other of your currently equipped abilities that cost PiPs, and as an additional cost, pay 3 PiPs. One ally on your team is allowed to use any ability costing an equal or lesser amount of PiPs to your ability as an immediate action. You may not use this action to use an ability that increases your total PiP count.


also, another one while I'm at it:

[-2] On a Roll
Deal 1d8 damage. For each turn in a row that you use this ability, add another d8, to a maximum of 5. If at any point you roll an 8 on any die, reset the counter.

EX: first turn, deals 1d8, 2nd turn deals 2d8, 3rd turn deals 3d8, 4th turn deals 4d8, 5th turn and on deals 5d8. If at any point the user rolls an 8 and procs their special, or if they use an ability other than On a Roll, the damage resets to 1d8

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Re: Combat Talents

Post  The Warrior of Many Faces on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:23 pm

Sable Shroud wrote:letsee...

[-(X+6)] Act as One
Use any other of your currently equipped abilities that cost PiPs, and as an additional cost, pay 6 PiPs. All allies on your team are allowed to use any ability costing an equal or lesser amount of PiPs to your ability as an immediate action. You may not use this action to use an ability that increases your total PiP count.

Something like that?

And for the 1 ally version:

[-(X+3)] Help me out here!
Use any other of your currently equipped abilities that cost PiPs, and as an additional cost, pay 3 PiPs. One ally on your team is allowed to use any ability costing an equal or lesser amount of PiPs to your ability as an immediate action. You may not use this action to use an ability that increases your total PiP count.


also, another one while I'm at it:

[-2] On a Roll
Deal 1d8 damage. For each turn in a row that you use this ability, add another d8, to a maximum of 5. If at any point you roll an 8 on any die, reset the counter.

EX: first turn, deals 1d8, 2nd turn deals 2d8, 3rd turn deals 3d8, 4th turn deals 4d8, 5th turn and on deals 5d8. If at any point the user rolls an 8 and procs their special, or if they use an ability other than On a Roll, the damage resets to 1d8

These all look good! I'll comment a little more on On a Roll because I've already commented on the others. On a Roll used to look unbalanced, until I realized that it uses 2 PiPs each time, meaning you need 10 PiPs to use it to full effect, which is more than fair. As I said, I like! Very Happy
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:29 pm

On a roll is genius. It's fantastic. I can't decide if it's too powerful or just right... Maybe it's broken in a team build. Maybe it should be -3 and d12s? No, that's probably too weak... Either way, I want to see this developed further!

As for Act as One, try to get the pip cost to look more normal. Just [-X] or [-6] Or something. Try to do all the complicated stuff in simple text... Or else find a simpler version of the power that fits the same theme.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Sable Shroud on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Hmm..

[-6] Act as One
As an additional cost to this ability, Pay X, where X is equal to the cost of any other of your abilities. You and all your allies may use any ability who's cost is equal to or less than X as an immediate free action. You may not use abilities that grant PiPs as part of this ability.

which would translate the 1 ally version to

[-3] Help me out here!
As an additional cost to this ability, Pay X, where X is equal to the cost of any other of your abilities. You and one ally may use any ability who's cost is equal to or less than X as an immediate free action. You may not use abilities that grant PiPs as part of this ability.


Is that better? I've been told I'm rather bad at simplifying things.

Edit: some spelling mistakes. Also, WOW that sounds a lot like a magic card -_-

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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:43 pm

Sable Shroud wrote:Hmm..

[-6] Act as One
As an additional cost to this ability, Pay X, where X is equal to the cost of any other of your abilities. You and all your allies may use any ability who's cost is equal to or less than X as an immediate free action. You may not use abilities that grant PiPs as part of this ability.

which would translate the 1 ally version to

[-3] Help me out here!
As an additional cost to this ability, Pay X, where X is equal to the cost of any other of your abilities. You and one ally may use any ability who's cost is equal to or less than X as an immediate free action. You may not use abilities that grant PiPs as part of this ability.


Is that better? I've been told I'm rather bad at simplifying things.

This is much, much better templating. Nice job.

I'm not sure if it's balanced of course. Giving people free turns is risky. I'd be interested to hear thoughts on its balance.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Sable Shroud on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:52 pm

It IS a bit unbalanced, isn't it... Perhaps raise the cost for using other abilities to X/2? Or, if we get to choose more combat talents at later levels, put a medium to high level restriction on it? Blah, I'm just throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks at this point. Off to design some monsters so I can look at this later with a fresh perspective.

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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Masterweaver on Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:17 pm

Punch Of Kill Everything [-30]
All enemies die instantly.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  The Warrior of Many Faces on Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:11 pm

Masterweaver wrote:Punch Of Kill Everything [-30]
All enemies die instantly.

Under what circumstances would anypony have 30 PiPs to spare???
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:00 pm

The Warrior of Many Faces wrote:
Masterweaver wrote:Punch Of Kill Everything [-30]
All enemies die instantly.

Under what circumstances would anypony have 30 PiPs to spare???

*laughs* Yeah, it wouldn't exactly be relevant under any circumstance... Unless you activate it with Derpy's Lightning. And basing a build around that might be fun.

Perhaps make it -15 and just massive damage? -15 is way out of reach anyways.
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Re: Combat Talents

Post  Masterweaver on Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:43 pm

It's a reference to a Transformers meme. The P.O.K.E. is apparently Optimus Prime's best weapon.

It's more a joke then anything.
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