Dragon Soul

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Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:09 pm

Dragon Soul[u]
Some people become allies or apprentices to great dragons. Some earn the right to be called 'Dragon Rider'. You are different. Your powerful soul allows you to throw off the boundaries of species and allow you to become one of the great dragons!

LV4: +1 Athletics. If you are a non-baby dragon, you now count yourself as a member of that species. Baby Dragon's are allowed to take on feature from a species and make it their own.

LV7: +2 Athletics. You now gain fire-breath. If you did not previously have flight, you gain average flying. You no longer take damage out of combat.

LV10: You can no longer fail Athletic challenges and you are an ace-flyer able to carry up to 2 people at once. (Maybe also able to super-heat your flame breath...)
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  LoganAura on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:10 pm

There's actually already an official Dragon related Destiny, Fury.

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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:11 pm

So?
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  LoganAura on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:21 pm

Well, the destiny already 1.) gives the one who chose the destiny the Baby Dragon racials over the course of the destiny and 2.) ends with a +10 to Knowledge skills.
*Finger twiddle* Er... don't take this wrong, I always end up wording things the wrong way, but maybe you could pause with your ideas for a little and read up on what the official stuff is? Learn about what the other things are to get a better handle on what you can lay onto the table?

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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:36 pm

I'm allowed to forget about it giving the Baby-Dragon skills. I can't be expected to remember everything can I?
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:41 pm

It doesn't give you the Baby Dragon racails over the course of the history...

Plus this TURNS YOU INTO A DRAGON (Or makes you grow a lot quicker as a baby dragon). Hell I said it was different when I mentioned 'Gaining a dragon as a mentor' in the very first flavour text! Vastly different flavour for a different destiny. Similar yes, but different.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Inferno1114 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:10 pm

Technically, so does the Dragon Disciple. You gain a dragons body, of heat resistance/fire breathing, +3 to 2 attributes, one of which can be athletics, or wings if you didn't already, and eventually the dragon fuses with you and extends your life span alogn with giving you the knowledge of dragons. Its more of a flavor text thing if you read between the lines, but it essentially turns you into a half dragon hybrid.

Also, a disciple is another term for student. As in, having the dragon as your mentor.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:57 am

Inferno1114 wrote:Technically, so does the Dragon Disciple. You gain a dragons body, of heat resistance/fire breathing, +3 to 2 attributes, one of which can be athletics, or wings if you didn't already, and eventually the dragon fuses with you and extends your life span alogn with giving you the knowledge of dragons. Its more of a flavor text thing if you read between the lines, but it essentially turns you into a half dragon hybrid.

Not exactly the same through. Similar yes, but a half-dragon hybrid isn't an actual dragon. Sure you might have the super knowledge checks and all that stuff. In this, you gain super athletics, super scales, super wings and super fire-breath. Oh and you BECOME A DRAGON

Inferno1114 wrote:Also, a disciple is another term for student. As in, having the dragon as your mentor.

Duh, this is why this is different. Because you don't have a dragon for a mentor. You become a dragon yourself.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:32 pm

Fury like it or not, odds are this isn't going to get in dude...
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:52 pm

>.<

There is no reason that this might not get in! Okay, there is probably a slim chance but if I work on it and give it good flavour. There is still chance of it making it in!

So instead of people do nothing but annoy me. Why don't you do what your supposed to do and help me improve it!
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:05 pm

Ok, ok dude, I"m sorry for not suggesting real help for you. But maybe you should work it off that you don't turn into a dragon but add it more to have it be like you gain the powers of a dragon from "Item X" or something? That'd help in adding it's differances between this and the Dragon Mentor one. It'll be hard, but I guess if you really wanta try and fine tune this one, we should try to help. But from as is, the only difference to me is that this doesn't have a dragon mentor, that's it... Or add more to saying that you get changes to your body from this that ISN'T hidable or something. That'd add to the flavor... Mmm... Maybe instend of "dragon" maybe you should retool it to more like "monster soul" type of thing?
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:33 pm

Dragons are awesome through. I mean who wouldn't want to play as one?

Plus gaining the powers of a dragon through an item is a LOT more similar to the dragon mentor one then this. Seriously, am I the only one that can see the differences here?
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:36 pm

It'd different... I"ll give you that... But... At the same time, strikes me as too simlar as is. Cause while turning dragon is an awesome idea. But at the same time, I'd think the Dragon Mentor would be more helpful as a whole. But if you reflavor it to be more non-dragon would help it is all I'm saying.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:37 pm

1. How is it more useful?

2. I can chance it to be JUST as useful!
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:48 pm

Well getting +10 to a Knowledge check at level 4 is a beast of a skill. In my Pony Team Bravo game, an Earth Pony used that skill to be better as magic then any of the many Unicorn Members of the group.

This on the other hand is, "you turn into a dragon slowly" while this does give you more dragon-skills then the Dragon Mentor one will give. That's the only thing this has going for it. Maybe add more to that? Like having it say that you looks more like a Monsterus Dragon-Pony Thing as you level up.

Also HOW do you end up turning part-dragon in this? It just says you do... And that's to vague I'd argue. That was why I suggested adding an Item to be the reason for the changes. Next I'd suggest adding the fact that you get weird changes to the pony's form maybe adding +5 to intinadate checks because of your "Monsterous" Apearance would help with both flavor and making it stronger as a Density.

Maybe instend of only choosing one dragon racial talent you have them get these two skills at level 4:

Spyrotechnics - At Will
Preparation Time - 6 Seconds
A baby dragon can turn a puff of its flame into either a burst of blinding fireworks (blinding all creatures that see it within 120-ft of the fire source) or a thick cloud of smoke (extending 20 feet in all directions from the fire source and lasting 18 seconds).

Friendship is Dragons
Baby Dragons provide a +1 morale bonus to the skill checks of all allies the baby dragon can see.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:00 pm

... You seriously didn't read anything did you?

You become a dragon because you have a soul of a dragon, combined with your will and power (harmony).

At level 4, non-bady dragons get treated as a bady-dragon. So basically they get ALL OF ITS RACIAL ABLITLES. Which means as well as what you suggested, they also become fireborn and become Inherently Magical. While Baby Dragon's get to pick ANY Racial feature. ANY and they get it. Maybe just one is a bit one sided through...

Maybe having an increase in intimidate is good, but you already get a bonus to two skills already. Through I suppose I could up the athletics bonus to +2 or +3 if need be.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:02 pm

Well as you worded the destiny as is, it looked more like you only gain one of a dragon's racial skills. And then that makes me wonder what the hell is up with the level 7 feature? If you already have the fire breath at level 4? I'm sorry I just don't understand.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:05 pm

Because they only get puffs of flame, that it. Level 7 gives you a proper damn fire-breath! As in WEAPON firebreath!

Of course I can do that in the Desinty, but you can use flavour for it.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:12 pm

You do recall that "weapons" are more an item or combat talent thing? But I do kinda get what your saying, your more intending an upgrade to Spyrotechnics at level 7... That's not a bad idea I'll admit. But at the same time, maybe getting ALL of the racial talents of a baby dragon is a bit much for a level 4 skill, along with gaining one dragon Utility Talent along with it, if I'm understanding what your saying now. I'd agrue if you added more flavor and skills about the fact that your pony is slowly looking half-dragon too would add a LOT to this talent and clearly make it something of it's own to be proud of.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:44 pm

The flavour will later.

You don't get an utility, you just get the Bady-dragon racial abilities as well as the Atheltics bonus.

Seriously, skillwise it can't get more obvious your becoming a dragon.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:04 pm

I get that, but there are two parts to this... Both flavor and featers... Because your morphing into a half-dragon, there should be notable effects becasue of your new appearance, something that not even a Changeling could hide in their natural form or their favored form type of thing. That's just how I see it... And I'm just talking about what skills that you've typed come arccoss as saying to me.
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:19 pm

Okay Fury, let's take a breath and unpack this. No need for anyone to get irritated. =)

Fury of the Tempest wrote:Dragon Soul
Some people become allies or apprentices to great dragons. Some earn the right to be called 'Dragon Rider'. You are different. Your powerful soul allows you to throw off the boundaries of species and allow you to become one of the great dragons!

Awesome. Love the flavor. However, it runs into some problems right out of the starting gate. In developing the Dragon Disciple, Chase and I actually started with ideas a lot like this one. Becoming a dragon yourself was one of the main ideas we worked on from the start. However, it runs into a huge problem. Destinies aren't supposed to affect combat, but how are you going to explain to a player that becoming a great dragon doesn't let them kick ass any harder in combat? Furthermore, becoming a badass in combat is actually the main reason becoming a dragon is so cool in the first place. Dragons are the ultimate terrors of the battlefield, and becoming one yourself is an awesome idea. However, destinies are out-of-combat only... So the flavor is actually directly at war with the mechanics on a fundamental level. This is why we went the, "dragon mentor" route instead.

Perhaps building a, "you become a dragon" line of traits would be a better way to go about it. Those are great for combat bonuses.

Now, let's examine the features themselves.

Fury of the Tempest wrote:LV4: +1 Athletics. If you are a non-baby dragon, you now count yourself as a member of that species. Baby Dragon's are allowed to take on feature from a species and make it their own.

Okay, we've got a few problems here. First, the +1 to athletics is really a minor bonus. We try to focus on a few big, cool bonuses rather than a lot of little ones. Not a big deal though. A bigger issue is the, "counting as a member of the baby dragon species". Gaining fireborn, spyrotechnics and friendship is dragons is a bit too powerful. That's three useful racial traits for an ability that's only supposed to hand you two utility talents worth of stuff. But the flavor is a bit fuzzier, so you already become a dragon at level 4? Then what are you working towards? Being an even bigger dragon? Also, this is confusingly phrased - do they lose their other racial traits? I expect not, but it's not clear right now. Finally, the idea that baby dragons gain a different feature from another species not only makes zero sense flavor-wise, the features from species aren't balanced. Many races have one flavorful feature and one very useful feature. (a pegasai's flight ability is a lot more useful than their weathercrafting). Also, the features from non-pony races are much stronger because they get no cutie mark.

Fury of the Tempest wrote:LV7: +2 Athletics. You now gain fire-breath. If you did not previously have flight, you gain average flying. You no longer take damage out of combat.

More issues. What's firebreath? Spyrotechnics? Didn't we already get that at level 4? And did we just get flight... And not only flight but gain multiple utility talents worth of training as well? That's like 4 utility talents worth of stuff (the pegasai's flight is worth 2) plus whatever firebreathing's worth, plus the athletics boost... And now we no longer take damage out of combat? So the dragon could just walk through the Tomb of Horrors, trigger all the traps and smile? And what if a meteor falls on their head? They still feelin' fine?

Fury of the Tempest wrote:LV10: You can no longer fail Athletic challenges and you are an ace-flyer able to carry up to 2 people at once. (Maybe also able to super-heat your flame breath...)
Okay, let's ignore the ace flier thing for now and focus on the first part of this. Here's a conversation I expect to hear.

Player: "I lift up that mountain."

DM: "Um... You can't."

Player: "Why not?"

DM: "It would take an athletics check of like... Ten billion."

Player: "I never fail athletics checks."

DM: "Uh..."

Player: "I throw the mountain at Discord."

DM: "Okay, that's it. Rocks, fall - everyone dies."

Player: "Are we in combat?"

DM: "Uh..."

Player: "You might want to read my Level 7 feature."

DM: Suspect

Player: Razz
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:26 pm

Well... now that someone has actually explained to me why the 'turning into a dragon' thing might not work... and well it makes sense. To be honest that is a worry for me. Because turning into a dragon would probably make you a better fighter...

Maybe I should scrap this completely and do the 'becoming a dragon' chain of traits as suggested. I mean we have a group of traits (The Dangerously Talented group) but no actual chains... and this... well I think quite a lot of people might like it Very Happy

That and I don't mind scrapping this that much as I DO have 3 other Destiny's waited to be commented on and improved!
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:31 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:Well... now that someone has actually explained to me why the 'turning into a dragon' thing might not work... and well it makes sense. To be honest that is a worry for me. Because turning into a dragon would probably make you a better fighter...

Maybe I should scrap this completely and do the 'becoming a dragon' chain of traits as suggested. I mean we have a group of traits (The Dangerously Talented group) but no actual chains... and this... well I think quite a lot of people might like it Very Happy

That and I don't mind scrapping this that much as I DO have 3 other Destiny's waited to be commented on and improved!

Sounds good. I look forward to checking them out when I get the time. Cool
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Re: Dragon Soul

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:34 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Sounds good. I look forward to checking them out when I get the time. Cool

The combat trait chain or the other 3 Destinies?
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