Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

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Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Greywander on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:56 pm

I'm honestly surprised that hippogriffs are an official race, and yet no one's made a diamond dog race yet. Also, I know far more about diamond dogs than I do about David Bowie.

New version, for Genetic Engineering Xpack, 6 point version

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
Choose a skill. Characters of your race gain training in that skill.

Spider Climb (1)
Characters of your race have a +15 bonus to skill checks made to climb surfaces.

Pierce the Heavens (2) - At Will
Preparation Time: 20 seconds
You are able to quickly dig through dirt, creating a passage up to 6 feet wide and 20 feet long.

Scent Tracker (2) - At Will
Characters of your race can pick up a person’s scent off of an object they have worn or held. You gain a +15 bonus to tracking that creature, until their trail crosses water, is washed away by rain or encounters any other circumstance that would mask or remove scents.

Old version before Genetic Engineering Xpack was released, for archival purposes, and potential utility talents.
Spoiler:
Diamond Dog

Racial Traits

Pierce the Heavens - At Will
Preparation Time: 20 seconds
You are able to quickly dig through dirt, creating a passage up to 6 feet wide and 20 feet long.

Denizen of Underdark
You get the Nightwatch utility talent for free.

Part of this Balanced Breakfast
You can eat gemstones and metal. And they are delicious.

Pack Mentality
When being assisted with some task, you gain an extra +2 bonus. You only get one such bonus, regardless of how many characters are assisting you.

Utility Talents

Diamond in the Snuff
Your keen nose is able to sniff out gemstones, telling you specific details about the gem as will as its distance from you (but not exact location). However, the more gems in your detection radius, the more the different signals will conflict and muddle each other, making it difficult to pick out specifics about a particular gem. You can detect exposed gems (those with an open air path from them to you) up to 50 feet away, and concealed gems (e.g. those buried underground or locked in a safe) up to 15 feet away. You can also detect if a gem has passed within 10 feet of your current location in the last 24 hours, and glean some general information on that gem.
When your senses are muddled by detecting multiple gems, you can make a Perception check with DC10+X, where X is the number of total gems being detected (roughly), to pick out details of a specific gem.
When trying to learn specifics regarding a gem that has passed through the area, you can make a Perception check with DC10+X, where X is the number of hours that have passed since the gem passed through.
When you can detect a gem, you can search the area for it by making a Perception check with DC10+X for exposed gems and DC20+X for concealed gems, where X is the total number of gems being detected. First, however, you have to sniff out the specific details of that gem to separate its scent from the other gems, unless it is the only gem in your detection area.
You can also search for a non specific gem in your detection area, finding one at random if you pass a DC10 Perception check. (If you beat a DC20, you might find a concealed gem, otherwise you can only find exposed gems.)

Giga Drill Break - Magic
Preparation Time: 30 seconds
You can open up a passage up to 10 feet wide and 60 feet long through dirt, stone, wood, and metal. Only unusually strong or magically enchanted materials are able to resist this effect.

Bark Bark Growl - 1 / day
You bark viciously at your target, granting a +5 bonus to Persuasion attempts to intimidate that target. [This is like one of the griffon racial talents.]

Mastiff-Necked - 1 / day
You gain +5 to Athletics for 10 minutes.

Bloodhound - Magic
When you catch the scent of either a character or object, your are able to track it down (limit: one scent). Any area the creature or object has passed through within the last week leaves a trail for you to follow. At the end of the day, the scent you're tracking will reset, but you can choose to consume a magic point the following day to maintain tracking that scent without having to catch it again.

Spelunker
You can sense direction underground without need of a compass, and have unusually good spatial senses, being able to determine your relative location to other passages and caves you might have passed.


Last edited by Greywander on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Jason Shadow on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:18 pm

I was also surprised that we haven't seen much of Diamond Dogs. I mean, you're not the first to bring them up, yet they've still received fairly little attention. Oh well, maybe having their own thread will help rectify that...
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:21 pm

I think it's because most GM's just use them as enemies or something like that.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  XandZero2 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:57 pm

Jason Shadow wrote:I was also surprised that we haven't seen much of Diamond Dogs. I mean, you're not the first to bring them up, yet they've still received fairly little attention. Oh well, maybe having their own thread will help rectify that...

^I'm glad you brought that up Jason!

I like to be acknowledged (:

I really would like to see DDs become a playable race (as well as Sea Ponies - but that's for another thread), so...

-Two things I'm not sure about with the racial abilities you've come up with so far Grey:

1. The +2 to Perception checks. I can understand why DDs would have that, but usually Stairc doesn't like the idea of giving one race a distinct stat buff advantage over other races. That inclines people towards a certain type of build, and Stairc wants this system to allow for equally effective characters to be built from any race. -Just warning you ahead of time, but maybe you should just stick to the auto Nightvision?

2. Also, I like the concept behind Diamond in the Snuff, but I don't know if it would really be show-accurate to the DDs. Why would the Dogs have needed to kidnap Rarity if they had an ability like that? It just doesn't seem practical if they already have that kind of sniffing power. I don't think all DDs should automatically start with it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

That typed, I'd recommend switching Diamond in the Snuff for Bloodhound as a racial ability, and making DitS a racial utility instead. I think all DDs should be able to track, but not every DD should be able to find Gemstones so easily.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Cardbo on Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:42 pm


Part of this Balanced Breakfast
You can eat gemstones and metal. And they are delicious.

This should probably be a racial trait. At least I can't see only some DD being able to eat gems and metals, and not others.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Greywander on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:50 pm

Okay, I tweaked Pierce the Heavens and Giga Drill Break, swapped out Keen Senses for Denizen of Underdark, made Part of this Balanced Breakfast a racial talent, made Diamond in the Snuff a utility talent, and added Pack Mentality as I felt the base racial talents were a touch underpowered.

XandZero2 wrote:2. Also, I like the concept behind Diamond in the Snuff, but I don't know if it would really be show-accurate to the DDs. Why would the Dogs have needed to kidnap Rarity if they had an ability like that? It just doesn't seem practical if they already have that kind of sniffing power. I don't think all DDs should automatically start with it.

My reasoning is that they would need some way to find gems in the first place, and Rarity was just much better at finding them.

I left Bloodhound as a utility talent, as I didn't think all diamond dogs should automatically have it. It's not actually a skill we see them use in the show, so there's no reason to think that it might be a common skill, if it's one they would have at all. Otherwise, it would make a good racial talent, since it doesn't boost or depend on specific attributes like Keen Senses or Diamond in the Snuff did.

Also, apologies for not seeing that diamond dogs had been brought up already.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  XandZero2 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:19 pm

Greywander wrote:Okay, I tweaked Pierce the Heavens and Giga Drill Break, swapped out Keen Senses for Denizen of Underdark, made Part of this Balanced Breakfast a racial talent, made Diamond in the Snuff a utility talent, and added Pack Mentality as I felt the base racial talents were a touch underpowered.

Pack Mentality seems like a good fit. I don't know if the burrowing abilities needed changing or not, but they look fine to me right now.

I figured your original reasoning for Diamond in the Snuff might be something like that. I can definitely see where your coming from, but I kind of figured that before Rarity, they were just digging blind like normal miners used to. Eh. No telling for sure really.

Greywander wrote:I left Bloodhound as a utility talent, as I didn't think all diamond dogs should automatically have it. It's not actually a skill we see them use in the show, so there's no reason to think that it might be a common skill, if it's one they would have at all.

True. They don't ever show them tracking things in the show...

Personally though, I still would love to see that ability become a racial for them. It's really flavorful if you're going off the idea that dogs are usually good trackers, and most of the time dogs and tracking do seem to go hand in paw.

Greywander wrote:Also, apologies for not seeing that diamond dogs had been brought up already.

^Not a problem dude. It's kewl Cool
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Greywander on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:25 am

XandZero2 wrote:I don't know if the burrowing abilities needed changing or not, but they look fine to me right now.

Peirce the Heavens originally just gave a flat +15 bonus to tunneling and digging, which made sense at the time (they're good at digging, so just make them better at digging!), but it occurred to me that this would likely encourage players to put points into Stunts (likely the skill to be used for digging), so I made it more or less a weaker version of Giga Drill Break. I then tweaked the numbers slightly on that second one to buff it a little.

XandZero2 wrote:
Greywander wrote:I left Bloodhound as a utility talent, as I didn't think all diamond dogs should automatically have it. It's not actually a skill we see them use in the show, so there's no reason to think that it might be a common skill, if it's one they would have at all.

True. They don't ever show them tracking things in the show...

Personally though, I still would love to see that ability become a racial for them. It's really flavorful if you're going off the idea that dogs are usually good trackers, and most of the time dogs and tracking do seem to go hand in paw.

People always have the option of picking it up, this just means that not every diamond dog will be forced into a tracker role. It's one of those abilities that I'd like players to make a conscious decision to get, rather than just carrying it around and never using it because they don't really know what it does. Kind of like the unicorn's Mirage or Phase Step abilities. The unicorn's main ability is Ponykinesis, just like the diamond dog's is Pierce the Heavens. Every unicorn has telekinesis, just like every diamond dog can dig, but the more specialized abilities are spread a little thinner among the populous.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Greywander on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:55 am

Diamond dogs now compatible with the Genetic Engineering expansion pack. Feedback?
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Cardbo on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:14 am

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
Choose a skill. Characters of your race gain training in that skill.

Looks good. Suggest mechanics for the above skill just because the paws would grant greater manual dexterity.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Greywander on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:27 am

Actually, despite how it sounds, I think this is supposed to be "get training in a third skill instead of a cutie mark". So, while the wording makes it sound like the creator of the race picks a skill and all members of that race automatically get training in it, but I'm treating it as the player choosing a third skill to train.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Cardbo on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:42 am

Greywander wrote:Actually, despite how it sounds, I think this is supposed to be "get training in a third skill instead of a cutie mark". So, while the wording makes it sound like the creator of the race picks a skill and all members of that race automatically get training in it, but I'm treating it as the player choosing a third skill to train.

I think if that were the case, it would've been more specific about that. There a racial trait that allows you to get a cutie mark, so that must mean the default is not having a cutie mark. And if you don't have a cutie mark, you automatically get three trained skills. So I'm thinking the above talent must be in addition to those three trained skills.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:29 am

The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Whiteeyes on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:57 am

So the race's creator has to pick the skill then?
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Greywander on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:02 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
Ah, so it is actually the way it sounds. The creator of the race picks the skill to get free training. I think I brought up the issue of minmaxing before, but I guess that's not a serious one here, as you can't stack training. If you want to play a character of a different race with training in that skill, you can just choose to train that skill, so it doesn't really make one race "better" than another.

I'm assuming then that there isn't an equivalent to the older 2T+CM for ponies, and 3T for nonponies. This would become a moot issue if we changed to a 5+CM (like Living Legends) or 6+CM, as has been discussed in the Genetic Engineering thread, since then we wouldn't have to worry about covering for a missing cutie mark with an extra trained skill. I assume you guys are busy at the moment, though, and will reevaluate the racial system when you have time, so no need to feel rushed. I wasn't planning on playing a diamond dog in a game any time soon, anyway, just felt like they should have a racial template.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:32 pm

Greywander wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
Ah, so it is actually the way it sounds. The creator of the race picks the skill to get free training. I think I brought up the issue of minmaxing before, but I guess that's not a serious one here, as you can't stack training. If you want to play a character of a different race with training in that skill, you can just choose to train that skill, so it doesn't really make one race "better" than another.

Exactly. I discussed why this doesn't encourage min/maxing in detail in the "Ask a simple question" thread, which was just a longer way of saying exactly why you did right here. =)

Greywander wrote:I'm assuming then that there isn't an equivalent to the older 2T+CM for ponies, and 3T for nonponies. This would become a moot issue if we changed to a 5+CM (like Living Legends) or 6+CM, as has been discussed in the Genetic Engineering thread, since then we wouldn't have to worry about covering for a missing cutie mark with an extra trained skill. I assume you guys are busy at the moment, though, and will reevaluate the racial system when you have time, so no need to feel rushed. I wasn't planning on playing a diamond dog in a game any time soon, anyway, just felt like they should have a racial template.

Absolutely. When finals are over we'll take a long look at the race system, plus additional expansions. We're also developing multiple other games. This one's just our favorite to work on. =)
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Jason Shadow on Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:35 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Greywander wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
Ah, so it is actually the way it sounds. The creator of the race picks the skill to get free training. I think I brought up the issue of minmaxing before, but I guess that's not a serious one here, as you can't stack training. If you want to play a character of a different race with training in that skill, you can just choose to train that skill, so it doesn't really make one race "better" than another.

Exactly. I discussed why this doesn't encourage min/maxing in detail in the "Ask a simple question" thread, which was just a longer way of saying exactly why you did right here. =)

Greywander wrote:I'm assuming then that there isn't an equivalent to the older 2T+CM for ponies, and 3T for nonponies. This would become a moot issue if we changed to a 5+CM (like Living Legends) or 6+CM, as has been discussed in the Genetic Engineering thread, since then we wouldn't have to worry about covering for a missing cutie mark with an extra trained skill. I assume you guys are busy at the moment, though, and will reevaluate the racial system when you have time, so no need to feel rushed. I wasn't planning on playing a diamond dog in a game any time soon, anyway, just felt like they should have a racial template.

Absolutely. When finals are over we'll take a long look at the race system, plus additional expansions. We're also developing multiple other games. This one's just our favorite to work on. =)

So if the creator of the race picks the skill to get free training, and everyone who picks that race gains free training in that particular skill... then shouldn't there be specific skills assigned to the appropriate races in the RoE document? As it stands, most of them still say "pick one".
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  ZamuelNow on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:23 pm

I'm also going "Whaaa???" to having Hippogriffs as playable but no Diamond Dogs. I'm new and all but I have come up with an idea for a racial build for them plus some spare traits for others to use in the system as a whole.

Diamond Dogs
Denizens of the dirt, Diamond Dogs desire jeweled delights. Whether they find them on they own or obtain them from others, this powerful pack will pocket their precious.

Earth Mover (2)
You may travel through dirt and sand with the same ease most others use for normal travel. You may also travel through clay-like or rocky soil with no penalties. Furthermore, you may close any tunnels you've made at will.

Herd Mentality (1)
Whenever an ally successfully aids you on a skill check, you gain an additional +1 bonus to the check.

Echoing Howl (1)
Diamond Dogs gain the "Call Out" trait.

Covet Your Neighbor (4) 2/day
Twice per day when another creature makes a skill check within your line of sight you may choose to record that die roll. These die results are “stored” until you expend them when using the following talent or until the next day when they are then lost until you observe another creature's skill check.

Beggars Can Be Choosers - Interrupt 2/day
Trigger - You or a creature in your line of sight makes a skill check and you dislike the result.
Effect - Treat the die as though you or they had rolled one of the stored die results. The stored roll result is swapped out for the new roll. For example, if you rolled a natural 1 - you could trade it out for the natural 20 you were lucky enough to roll at the end of your last extended rest. Likewise, if another creature rolled a natural 20 - you could trade it out for a stored natural 1.


Traits for Genetic Engineering or utility talents

Burrower
You may travel through dirt and sand with the same ease most others use for normal travel. Additional skill checks may be required for traveling through clay or rocky soil.

Earth Mover
(requires Burrower)
You may travel through clay-like or rocky soil with no penalties. Furthermore, you may close any tunnels you've made at will.

Some basic tunneling talents makes sense to add to the system for any number of creatures. I figure Covet Your Neighbor fits in with being awesome enough to not have a Cutie Mark and makes for very different play than other races. Alternate name idea for Beggars Can Be Choosers was going to be "The Other Side of the Fence".
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Dusk Raven on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:13 pm

So, I suddenly got into a Diamond Dog craze, and decided to see if they were in Pony Tales.

I was displeased that they were not, but was pleased to find this thread.

As per the above suggestion - "storing" dice rolls is a rather interesting mechanic... gives me the idea of a race that isn't too good at doing things on their own but is great at mimicking others.
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  ZamuelNow on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:25 pm

Diamond Dog - Updated suggestion proposal:
Burrower (1)
You may travel underground through dirt, sand and similar loose materials at normal walking speeds. This leaves behind a tunnel, and you can tell approximately the direction and distance since you went underground (so you don’t get completely disoriented).  Additional skill checks may be needed to move faster or travel through denser soil.

Call Out (1) – At Will
You let out a loud call. Choose one
  • A) Name any number of creatures that could recognize your voice. They hear your howl automatically and know how far away from them you are and in what direction.

    B) Every creature within one to ten miles (your choice) hears the call and knows where you are in relation to them. You make make it clear whether or not your call is meant as a warning, distress call, etc.


Hoard (4) (Predestined)
After each extended rest you may roll three d20s. These die results are “stored” until you expend them when using the following talent or until after your next extended rest (when they are replaced by the three new rolls).

  • Emergency Stockpile - Interrupt [3/Day] (I Make My Own Fate)
    Trigger - You make a skill check and dislike the result.
    Effect - Treat the die as though you had rolled one of the stored die results. This expends the chosen roll. For example, if you rolled a natural 1 - you could trade it out for the natural 20 you were lucky enough to roll at the end of your last extended rest.


Sharp Eyes (1)
Characters of your race gain a +3 bonus to perceptions checks to notice physical details. For example, noticing a tiny crack in the wall would gain benefit from this, but things that require mental insight - figuring out if someone is lying, for instance - would not.

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
Choose a skill. You gain training in that skill.

Updated proposal for Diamond Dogs as a system canon race.  Dropped the custom racial due to various comments from the designers about making things that encourage people to just repeatedly roll.  Everything else seems like it fits in to how they are in the show.  Anyone have suggestions for flavor text?
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  Kindulas on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:43 pm

What if, instead of a skill training they could get Cultural Knowledge to gems and digging? or something like that - I don't think we have any races that use the Cultural Knowledge for flavoring, but there's good potential there.

Or... wait, no scent tracker? Would that be something they would have?
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Re: Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

Post  ZamuelNow on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:09 am

The above build was based off before Scent Tracker got the cost lowered.  Let me copypasta from the most current expansion submission.  I think Dan's comment in the Crystal Ponies thread has got me thinking they'd actually work better for Cultural Knowledge.

Race - Diamond Dogs:
Diamond Dogs
As subterranean dwellers, Diamond Dogs mine for assorted gems and fineries.  While sometimes blindly led by greed, their craftiness and pack mentality makes them a worthy ally to any friend.

Burrower (1)
You may travel underground through dirt, sand and similar loose materials at normal walking speeds. This leaves behind a tunnel, and you can tell approximately the direction and distance since you went underground (so you don’t get completely disoriented).  Additional skill checks may be needed to move faster or travel through denser soil.

Call Out (1) – At Will
You let out a loud howl. You make make it clear whether or not your call is meant as a warning, distress call, etc.
  • A) Name any number of creatures that could recognize your voice. They hear your howl automatically and know how far away from them you are and in what direction.

    B) Every creature within one to ten miles (your choice) hears the call and knows where you are in relation to them.


Hoard (4) (Predestined)
After each extended rest you may roll three d20s. These die results are “stored” until you expend them when using the following talent or until after your next extended rest (when they are replaced by the three new rolls).

  • Emergency Stockpile - Interrupt [3/Day] (I Make My Own Fate)
    Trigger - You make a skill check and dislike the result.
    Effect - Treat the die as though you had rolled one of the stored die results. This expends the chosen roll. For example, if you rolled a natural 1 - you could trade it out for the natural 20 you were lucky enough to roll at the end of your last extended rest.


Scent Tracker (1) - At Will
Characters of your race can pick up a person’s scent off of an object they have worn or held. You gain a +15 bonus to tracking that creature, until their trail crosses water, is washed away by rain or encounters any other circumstance that would mask or remove scents.

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
Choose a skill. You gain training in that skill.
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