Upcoming Expansions

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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Appkes on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:07 pm

You removed the barriers for utilities?

YES!
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:10 pm

Appkes wrote:You removed the barriers for utilities?

YES!

Appkes, that's what we've been talking about all along!

I thought a turnaround would happen on the subject, but this fast? jocolor

It's clear that it's a bit confusing what we're actually talking about. So let me try to make it clear.

1) We're going to remove the racial barriers for utilities. (You no longer have to be an earth pony to take Twitchy Tail)

2) For those folks that want to play a race or half-breed that we haven't built yet, we're going to create guidelines to make it yourself that in a balanced way; subject to DM approval.

That's all.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  tygerburningbright on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:16 pm

Question in core rules shall the racial talents stay as prerequsites? And one other thing this plan requires almost all talents to be nerfed is that in the plans?
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Ramsus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:17 pm

And more Destinies and Combat Specials and Pie right?

Edit: Huh? Why would it require nerfing talents?
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Appkes on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:19 pm

*Staples my stupid face to a sign saying 'ImdumbImdumb'

I totally need a creation guide for my custom campaign race too, because balance is hard.

Do please do some tweaking to the current destinies too, because only half of them really hit the mark for level 10 players. Of course, I could be wrong again.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Ramsus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:21 pm

What are you trying to make?
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:37 pm

tygerburningbright wrote:Question in core rules shall the racial talents stay as prerequsites?

Yes! However, additional talent options will show up to meet those pre-requisites in other ways. The best example of this is the way Living Legends handled the flight tree. Some races get Flight as part of their racial traits. Others can get it by spending 2 utility talents, which is a really expensive way to go about it. This means flying races have a massive advantage in being the best fliers around. If a dwarf wants to fly, he's got to sink a lot more utility talents into it.

tygerburningbright wrote:And one other thing this plan requires almost all talents to be nerfed is that in the plans?

Oh, not at all. They're going to stay identical in 99% of the cases. Some of the non-pony races might need to get nerfed though, since they have so many utility talents now.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  tygerburningbright on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:49 pm

I am going to assume that the talent gives only the most basic one am I correct?
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  LoganAura on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:53 pm

Actually, the flight utility in Living Legends starts at -10, then -5 and becoming as good as a basic pegasi

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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Ramsus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:54 pm

That's why I priced Flight the way I did for my rough draft of racial traits.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Nehiel Mori on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:08 pm

Ramsus wrote:And more Destinies

Depends on if you count 9 as more. Because that's how many are in right the expansion right now. The number will end up getting bigger though once I look through the stuff you guys suggested.


Ramsus wrote: and Combat Specials

Yes; though I don't know much about that.

Ramsus wrote: and Pie right?

No. Cake>Pie.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  The Warrior of Many Faces on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:13 pm

Nehiel Mori wrote:
Ramsus wrote: and Pie right?

No. Cake>Pie.

I don't believe you. The cake is a lie, and Soarin is a pie. Soaring is better than a lie, so you'd better get some pie. With butter. Not the bitter butter, the better butter.

XD
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  LoganAura on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:17 pm

aaand everything went loco once Quarrel came by.

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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  tygerburningbright on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:20 pm

And here I thought that writer was the lovable loon...
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Nehiel Mori on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:23 pm

The Warrior of Many Faces wrote:
Nehiel Mori wrote:
Ramsus wrote: and Pie right?

No. Cake>Pie.

I don't believe you. The cake is a lie, and Soarin is a pie. Soaring is better than a lie, so you'd better get some pie. With butter. Not the bitter butter, the better butter.

XD

You keep up this blasphemy and YOU'LL GET NO DESTINES. NONE. Everyone else will BUT NOT YOU...
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:26 pm

The Good Cookbook says that Pie is everything and cake is but another form of pie. So the cake IS a lie. Go back to your youtube rants your cakiesm follower!

*has no idea if anyone gets what I'm referencing, even I'm not totally sure how to explain it*
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Zarhon on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:34 pm

I have a few questions, in regards to this expansion:

1) Will earth ponies be affected, racial-wise, by this change? They were originally intended to be the "silly, 4th wall breaking, cartoon-powers" race, a trait they will lose with this new change and which may end with them being "bland". Will they be given something to compensate in return, or will their cartoon powers require prerequisites, similar to flight in LL?

2) Unicorns will seem like the "best overall" choice for characters due to the extra utility talent racial. How much of their "magic" will they keep? How many utilities would non-unicorns need to match unicorn magic (assuming it requires prerequisites, similar to flight in LL)?

3) How will the Element of Magic - Magic makes it all complete work in the expansion? Will it be changed at all?
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Ramsus on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:03 am

You haven't seen my thread for the original concept of this have you? Unicorns are hands down, without question, the weakest race. All they get is one racial trait and a free utility. Every other race gets more than two things.

No reason for the Element of Magic to change unless you somehow think that having more options means you can take every utility you could possibly ever want to use.

Walling off the 4th wall related abilities would largely defeat the point of removing the racial barrier. Some thing like flight, weathercrafting, and telekinesis are blocked that way because those things were built into those races from the start and flavor wise "all" pegasi/unicorns can do those things. There's no justification for "all" Earth Ponies breaking the 4th wall or being good mechanics. It's possible default Earth Ponies might get something more than currently have but, that would probably just be a result of balancing the racial point system and not because we want to limit people from doing cool stuff. (I point out Pinkie Pie is the only example of a fourth wall breaker we have, that's a very poor justification to say Earth Ponies are inherently more likely to do so or better at it.)

Edit: Also, I think, not sure of course, that Flight might be the only thing that is blocked in that particular "harder to get but still possible" way. Getting Weather Crafting or PK would just be a matter of choosing those at character creation (for those using the optional race rules). Otherwise you're still only talking about three utility trees out of ....I don't even know how many, a lot?, and that number is still growing. If you give Earth Ponies some "only Earth Ponies can do X" thing, then you're going to have to do it for every single race and it's going to end up very very annoying and dumb.

Edit 2: I understand that it does seem a little unfair to Earth Ponies (and Changelings and Baby Dragons and etc. etc.) that Unicorns and Pegasi would have these "only us" abilities when nobody else did. The solution is just to use the optional racial rules. Then there is no "only X race gets Y" problems. If you're going to insist on using the default rules then, that (very minor) limitation is the price of that decision.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Jason Shadow on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:24 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
tygerburningbright wrote:And one other thing this plan requires almost all talents to be nerfed is that in the plans?

Oh, not at all. They're going to stay identical in 99% of the cases. Some of the non-pony races might need to get nerfed though, since they have so many utility talents now.

If I may suggest an alternative: instead of nerfing the non-pony races, why not strengthen the pony races instead? Since there are a lot less of them, it would be easier, and while I could be wrong, I think most people would be happier to see bonuses in general added rather than removed.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Ramsus on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:28 am

Jason Shadow wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
tygerburningbright wrote:And one other thing this plan requires almost all talents to be nerfed is that in the plans?

Oh, not at all. They're going to stay identical in 99% of the cases. Some of the non-pony races might need to get nerfed though, since they have so many utility talents now.

If I may suggest an alternative: instead of nerfing the non-pony races, why not strengthen the pony races instead? Since there are a lot less of them, it would be easier, and while I could be wrong, I think most people would be happier to see bonuses in general added rather than removed.
I'd like to see an example of both options, though I lean towards agreement with Jason (also have you seen his Fireproof alternates? They're brilliant, perfectly balanced, and totally need to be official).
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  SilentBelle on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:03 am

Jason Shadow wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
tygerburningbright wrote:And one other thing this plan requires almost all talents to be nerfed is that in the plans?

Oh, not at all. They're going to stay identical in 99% of the cases. Some of the non-pony races might need to get nerfed though, since they have so many utility talents now.

If I may suggest an alternative: instead of nerfing the non-pony races, why not strengthen the pony races instead? Since there are a lot less of them, it would be easier, and while I could be wrong, I think most people would be happier to see bonuses in general added rather than removed.

It's a statistical fact that people like to see bonuses and dislike negatives, even if they perform the same function. I'll agree with Jason Shadow on this Smile
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Videocrazy on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:13 am

SilentBelle wrote:
Jason Shadow wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
tygerburningbright wrote:And one other thing this plan requires almost all talents to be nerfed is that in the plans?

Oh, not at all. They're going to stay identical in 99% of the cases. Some of the non-pony races might need to get nerfed though, since they have so many utility talents now.

If I may suggest an alternative: instead of nerfing the non-pony races, why not strengthen the pony races instead? Since there are a lot less of them, it would be easier, and while I could be wrong, I think most people would be happier to see bonuses in general added rather than removed.

It's a statistical fact that people like to see bonuses and dislike negatives, even if they perform the same function. I'll agree with Jason Shadow on this Smile

I agree with this as well.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Xel Unknown on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:19 am

I also agree, with buffing a few pony races is a better idea than nerfing the non-pony races...
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:13 am

Well it just might happen then. =)

We'll definitely try working from that angle first.
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

Post  Xel Unknown on Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:15 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Well it just might happen then. =)

We'll definitely try working from that angle first.
Hope it works. :3
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Re: Upcoming Expansions

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