MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:33 pm

Caden2112 wrote:Have you seen what they get up to normally? Other than Pinkie going flat-haired, they probably just all assumed the Mane 6 had gotten an extra dose of crazy or were switching jobs for the day on a dare or something.

Plus, they were probably busy trying to find something to treat sunburns, frostbites, and pneumonia from torrential raining thanks to Rarity.

So not only were their memories not altered...

...this is normal for them.



Neat! Very Happy
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Caden2112 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:42 pm

Hey, look at it this way...exactly how many times have the Mane 6 caused danger or significant damage to Ponyville?
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Paper Shadow on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:10 pm

Caden2112 wrote:Hey, look at it this way...exactly how many times have the Mane 6 caused danger or significant damage to Ponyville?
But usually when this happens, they go and complain, not go and hate each everyone in town...

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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  RavenscroftRaven on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:27 pm

Put Ponyville in danger? About once a week with a few several-month breaks in-between on occasion. :p

Thoughts:

1) Fanservice! 5 instances of Derpy (Derpy was also in a crowd-shot late in the show). And this point (Linky to Youtube) nearly every single popular BG pony is in frame. Every high-fandom pony made at least 1 appearance, even a really odd one for Vinyl, but they got her in there. (And psycho-Lyra!)

2) I can't help but feel this is a series finale, not a season finale. It even got the "looking back" montage. It seems more appropriate as one. I know they confirmed otherwise, but I'd almost like a new Mane 6 at this point, learn about new ponies to love and tolerate.

3) More popular fandom fetish nods: Rarity with wet hair, a Pinkamena Puff, Rainbow Dash in bondage, Luna appearing at all... There's probably more that I didn't notice, only watched it once through. I bet somewhere there was a pony in socks.

4) The "musical" format: I liked it. This format isn't meant to have every song be memorable, but to relay what would be a really long story in a quicker timeframe through song. They did that well.

5) Derpy wink-and-nods!

6) The "problem" of the story wasn't really finale-worthy, that the six mixed up their marks. Clearly, ponies remember their old ones, except the ones it was cast upon: Reality wasn't revised, the photograph still had their proper marks. I do think that creating a new "brand" of magic, formalizing the magic of friendship, is worthy of reward, and I liked that when the Elements started blasting Twilight, she flinched, but then looked quite zen and at peace before exploding: Her trust in her friends was absolute, they would never allow her to come to harm even through their elements.

7) Did I mention Derpy? Because she's awesome.

EDIT: Upon re-watching:
More Fandom Fetish nods after rewatching:
- A chicken glares at the screen when you first meet RD. In the same scene, a weasel seems to be doing the Sweetie-Bell face-crawl.

No one cares about the replacement mail stallion: he gets his face hit by the door, again, just like last time.

During the "Seeking answers" (3rd song), the duck we all made fun of for clipping in front of RD during "find a pet" is blatantly the first layer in the scene.

And I counted 2 "dat plot" moments, (fully unnecessary ones).

Rarity confirms "alicorn" to refer to a winged unicorn. Prior to this, all we knew was the "alicorn amulet" existed and could have referred to the maker or just an odd name.

It's a good thing that Cadance's stylist got over her illness, too. It wouldn't do to have Rarity make her up again before performing a ceremony for Twilight.

Tha hats at the princess coronation? Totally pimpin'. Rarity's especially, but RD too.

Re: Regal outfits, Celestia is totally the king. Look at Luna's crown, then Celestia's. Both may be "princesses", but we know which one took something off the head of King George.

And seriously, at 19:48 Derpy actually winks at the viewers. (Lower left, go slow-mo or you'll miss the wink.)
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Zarhon on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:35 am

Any negativity I may have had from the episode is offset by Derpy and the fantastic Celestia Ballad.

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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Greywander on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:03 am

So, I watched the episode, and my initial reaction was somewhat confused. I posted my thoughts here, made a Space Jam mash up, then went to work, and while I was at work, I had an epiphany, and I've come to see the season finale in a new way that makes me feel much more ambivalent about it.

I actually want to make an analysis video of the episode, as it would take a while to explain it here, plus the benefit of using pictures, video clips, and music to help make my points. I've never done something like that before, so I don't know how long it will take. I'll post the gist under a spoiler here, though.
Spoiler:
Apologies in advance if I'm reading too much into this.

First off, the title, Magical Mystery Cure, clearly refers to the cutie mark swapping and not the princess thing, even though the latter took up most of the episode, indicating that the emphasis was on that rather than the coronation.

Second, the cutie mark swapping dealt with major characters having something fundamental about them changed, something that clearly should have not happened (contrast legitimate character development), and it clearly did not work and just made everything so much worse.

Thirdly, Starswirl's unfinished spell could even be seen as a metaphor for executive meddling. Remember it was given to Twilight by her "boss", and resulted in the afore mentioned cutie mark swapping debacle. Ironic that finishing the spell was what resulted in Twilight becoming an alicorn.

Fourth, the writing had a distinct G3 vibe to it, and I've watched all the G3 cartoons, so I know (they're not all bad, except Newborn Cuties). It starts with some minor tension that's made out to be a bigger deal than it is (seriously, are there no other weather ponies besides Rainbow Dash? Or couldn't the Apple family help Pinkie with the farm?), the tension is quickly resolved with little conflict, then everyone goes to a party. The plot of A Charming Birthday in a nutshell. The Princess Promenade also comes to mind, for obvious reasons. Contrast A Very Minty Christmas, which had some actual tension that involved a decent amount of time and effort to resolve.

Personally, I think that this whole episode was satire, the FiM team rolling their eyes and saying, "Whatever, Hasbro, we'll do it your way, but don't expect us to take it seriously." They didn't just give up, though. I think they're determined to make the best of this. I still need to rewatch the episode to see if my analysis matches up, but seriously, rewatch it with the mindset that it's a satire for Hasbro's executive meddling. I'm seeing a lot of stuff that now looks like obvious pokes at Hasbro.

Like many, I don't remember the details of any of the songs. One thing I do remember, though, is the theme of "Everything is going to be fine," running through the entire episode (which is probably why many of us had confused emotions at the end). After rechecking, I found that the episode starts and ends with the same song, singing about how everything is going to be fine, before Twilight flies toward the camera and repeats the exact same. I think this is a direct message from the team to bronies, telling us not to lose hope just yet.

Then, of course, there's Derpy, who appears several times in the episode, and most prominently at the end, where she can be seen in all her googly eyed splendor. After going all of season 3 without hardly a glimpse of her, this was a pleasant surprise (even if I didn't catch it the first time through). However, I think this says less about Derpy and more about Twilight. Derpy was, after all, something of a controversy that bronies felt rather strongly about, and her absence was very noticeable during season 3, and yet here we see at the end of it all that she's there after all. Likewise, alicorn Twilight has been something of a controversy that bronies feel strongly about, and while it might be a little while, everything will hopefully turn out okay. Like I said, I think this says more about Twilight than Derpy, so Derpy may or may not return in season 4.

Another thing to consider is that Megan McCarthy has said that Magical Mystery Cure is only one of three parts (probably in a similar way to the direct continuity between A Canterlot Wedding and The Crystal Empire, for reference). We don't have the whole story yet, so while we might not like where things are right now, there's still a chance they'll work out. I find the timing to be somewhat interesting, too. IF, and this is a big "if", if they decide to revert Twilight to a unicorn during the season 4 opening, then this will (a) give them a minimum number of episodes with alicorn!Twilight, and (b) a maximum amount of real time for Hasbro to sell Twilicorn toys before she reverts. Now, my advice is to assume that Twilicorn is here to stay. That way we won't be disappointed when it doesn't happen, and pleasantly surprised if it does.

Lastly, remember the season 3 opener? "I was prepared to do my best, thought I could handle any test, for I can do so many tricks, but I wasn't prepared for this... Will I fail, or will I pass? I can't be sure..." I'll bet that's how the FiM team felt when Hasbro handed them the Twilicorn order. And no, I don't think that's a stretch, since they've clearly been planning this since the season began. And for the record, they made Shining Armor and Cadance pretty cool characters, even though they were also the result of executive meddling.

For me, during this interim period between the seasons, I'm just going to consider the season finale noncanon. Once I have more context to go on, I'll be willing to reconsider that.
Also, I just want to point out that Twilight becoming a princess is a way bigger deal than her becoming an alicorn. An alicorn is just a unicorn with wings. A princess is someone with royal responsibilities and duties, and won't have much time to hang out with her friends.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Jason Shadow on Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

You know, come to think of it, this episode sort of reminded me of the series finale of Batman: the Brave and the Bold. (Or what I've read on Tv Tropes about it, anyway - I haven't actually seen it.) I don't think that the writers were actually trying to pull a Bat-Mite Gambit, but Greywander's satirization explanation makes a whole lot of sense.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:53 pm

Considering that they only had 30 minutes, instead of an hour, for whatever reason. And it amount of songs they had. I think they did pretty awesomely!

Okay, sure. There are some glitches and problems. But give them a break would ya? The main target is for little girls. Sure, that doesn't mean the plot has to be stupid, or not make sense. But, they should be given a bit more slack, as the plot was still rather good.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:31 pm

Okay so update on season three finale, bunch of little things but two important ones:

1) Apparently everyone really wanted the finale to be two parts, not one...but that just didn't work out.
2) Daniel also wanted to write a song showcasing how changing everypony's Cutie Marks did actually change history after all, so my assumption that all it changed were those five's memories was wrong. Except now that that song is dropped, the fact that it did is no longer necessarily canon, and introducing that aspect suddenly introduces about seventeen different plot holes, so heck maybe they cut out that song for that specific reason, I dunno.

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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:35 pm

Well, thing is... I don't think it WAS just Cutie marks which swapped... after all, it was stated to be a DESTINY changing spell.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:51 pm

But then we come back to "Why did the ponies (or at the very least, Spike) not remember them being different?" , along with a bunch of other tiny things that don't make sense if that's true.

Twilight gets a by as the original caster of the spell, of course.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:00 pm

But none of the other ponies did remember... save for Spike. Who didn't know the others up until Twilight did, plus. Being a dragon, is probably affected by magic differently... or maybe Twilight protected him from the spell somehow.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:15 pm

How do you know none of the other ponies remembered?

And what do you mean "Spike didn't know until Twilight told him"? We have no evidence of that.

And how could Twilight have protected him from the spell considering she didn't realize she'd cast it?

Dragons are affected by magic differently...well, it makes logical sense enough, but then again it wasn't like the spell went into everyone in the world's memories and altered it under your theory, but altered the timelines themselves. Thusly, nopony or dragon was actually affected by the spell, but rather by the spell's aftereffects. I suppose it's technically possible that dragons are immune to changes in the timeline, but that seems rather...arbitrary and odd to me.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:18 pm

How do you explain Twilight not being affected?
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:27 pm

Hmm...you're right. I can't!

The spell must have only affected the memories of those five instead of actually affecting history. Just like I've been saying all along... Wink
















...alright, enough trolling you, I actually already offered up a logical explanation for that question.
AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:Twilight gets a by as the original caster of the spell, of course.

Now perhaps you would care to offer up some more rational answers for my questions? If not, that's fine, we can stop the debate if you don't want to keep going.

...please do not read that as me being "smug victorious"; if you want to stop the debate at this point in time I'd consider it a draw. Very Happy
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Dusk Raven on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:24 pm

I would have figured Twilight was unaffected for the same reason her cutie mark wasn't swapped - and for the same reason she wasn't affected by her own Want It, Need It spell - caster immunity. Or, alternatively, she's reached such a level of magical power to be immune to it.

Been too long since I've seen the episode for me to offer an opinion on who remembered what, though.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:53 am

Alright, fine. There seems to be caster immunity, which protects Twilight.

But seriously? Saying only the 5 whose cutie marks have been swapped have their memories altered? Not likely, considering that NO ONE IN THE TOWN DID ANYTHING TO CHANGE THINGS BACK. Or hell, even go to Twilight to see if she had any idea as to what was wrong. Nope, they just carried on like it was normal live for them.

As for Spike remember when others did not? Well, he's a dragon. Not only might the magic have affected him differently, but he doesn't have a cutie mark himself, and because of that doesn't truly understand the importance of the mark. The main and most predominant change is the cutie mark swap, and as he doesn't truly understand the cutie marks, he's not as affected as the other ponies are...

or maybe Twilight's put some magical defenses around him or something. Because you know, it'll be stupid to cast a spell without some precautions. Just, Twilight didn't think it'll affect the Elements of Harmony
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:33 am

No one in the town ever does anything to change things back. Why should this be any different?

Besides, as we established a mere page ago in this very topic, it is entirely unnoteworthy for strange things to be happening around or because of the Mane Six - and furthermore, even if that were not true, it isn't unreasonable for the townsponies to assume that they were performing each other's jobs as part of a bet or some similar exercise. Again, as earlier established.

As for dragons being affected differently: I already established that if history is being changed, that means that nopony was affected by magic, but merely by its time-altering aftereffects -the difference between five tons of magical forces slamming you upside the head and Ponykinesis lifting five ton's worth of boulders above it. Either way, you get hit by five tons of weight, but only in one way are you affected in any way by magic - in the seocnd you are merely an unfortunate aftereffect to the laws of gravity. Or the laws of history being changed, in this case. Dragons being unaffected by changes in the timeline makes no sense. Him not understanding the significance of Cutie Marks shouldn't change his memories back the "proper" or more accurately original way if history were to be changed, either. Not understanding why something happens or why ponies do certain things does not cause one to form entirely new memories out of new cloth, nor does it make one immune to changes in the timeline. There is no reason why it should.

Magical defenses? Well first of all, Twilight likely cast that spell by accident - for someone attempting to cast a spell she was certainly reading it rather unsurely and she was just as confused as anyone when she woke up the next morning - it was only after makign a connection with her reading the spell aloud that she realized she might have cast a spell at all, and went to the Elements to check. Secondly, assuming she did cast the spell on purpose, we have several problems: one is why she cast a spell she-didn't-know-what-it-did at all; Twilight is more cautious than that. Secondly: why only Spike? Did she believe he was the only one who could be affected for some reason? Why would she believe that? Thirdly: No she didn't. Admittedly, I could be wrong. The episode could have some sort of blank in it between her receiving the package from Celestia, her reading the letter, and her reading the spell, but I do not recall such a gap. Are you suggesting that she put up a series of unseeable, entirely mentally cast with no need for invocation, incredibly-complex-to-negate-any-and-all-possible-dangers wards up in the space of the maybe two seconds of time wherein she was not receiving the package, reading the letter, or saying the spell?

Furthermore, I should like to point out that though there is no direct onscreen evidence to support "history being changed" or "memories being altered among the five who were switched" the first option opens up several plotholes that require explaining and whose explanations thus far are prone to further plotholes requiring further explanation, while the second serves nicely as an Occam's Razor - not irrefutable evidence by any means, but certainly a point in the second hypothesis's favor. Of course, if reasonable explanations as to the first's series of plotholes can be offered up, then those plotholes shall be filled in and no longer shall be plotholes, and so hypothesis A shall also serve to fit nicely with Occam's Razor, and so we shall be at a standoff.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:51 am

... If your simply going to say 'The townsponies never do anything' as a reason why they where totally okay with their lives BEING UTTERLY RUINED

Then there is no debate.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:55 am

Okay.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:01 am

Besides, the debate was going nowhere anyway.

Its not a perfect story for an episode. But still an excellent one.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Zarhon on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:44 pm

So apparently, this is one of the new merch toys thats coming up.

Picture:

(Note: This is one of those Luchador-style masked ponies

If the previous merchandise (and the episodes featuring said merchandise) is any indication, this could be something that becomes relevant for a future episode/episodes.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Lyntermas on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:34 pm

Hmm...another student of Celestia. While I'm not going to comment on "important character we've never heard of before now," I have to think that she might be a little jealous of Celestia's other student apparently being an Element of Harmony AND redeeming Princess Luna AND saving two kingdoms AND being an alicorn.

Trollestia: So Sunset, how's my unfavorite student doing today? Oh, hanging out with your friends? I see. Twilight is the Master of Friendship, you know. She has a Ph.D. in making friends. So, what's your cutie mark stand for again? Oh, it shows that you want to be just like me? That's nice. Twilight makes her own destiny. She invented a whole new type of magic. Well, I guess that's why she's an alicorn and you're still a dirty Earth pony.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  Paper Shadow on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:37 pm

Actually she's a unicorn, but the horn is hard to see in the picture due to her mane...

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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:38 pm

"Magical path to faraway adventures"...could refer to a dimensional doorway...

"She was a student of Princess Celestia"... implying she knows certain secrets and powerful magic...

...are we looking at the instigator of Equestria Girls?
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Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

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