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Ever heard of the Diamond Dogs? David Bowie has.

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Post  Greywander Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:56 pm

I'm honestly surprised that hippogriffs are an official race, and yet no one's made a diamond dog race yet. Also, I know far more about diamond dogs than I do about David Bowie.

New version, for Genetic Engineering Xpack, 6 point version

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
Choose a skill. Characters of your race gain training in that skill.

Spider Climb (1)
Characters of your race have a +15 bonus to skill checks made to climb surfaces.

Pierce the Heavens (2) - At Will
Preparation Time: 20 seconds
You are able to quickly dig through dirt, creating a passage up to 6 feet wide and 20 feet long.

Scent Tracker (2) - At Will
Characters of your race can pick up a person’s scent off of an object they have worn or held. You gain a +15 bonus to tracking that creature, until their trail crosses water, is washed away by rain or encounters any other circumstance that would mask or remove scents.

Old version before Genetic Engineering Xpack was released, for archival purposes, and potential utility talents.
Spoiler:


Last edited by Greywander on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Jason Shadow Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:18 pm

I was also surprised that we haven't seen much of Diamond Dogs. I mean, you're not the first to bring them up, yet they've still received fairly little attention. Oh well, maybe having their own thread will help rectify that...
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Post  Xel Unknown Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:21 pm

I think it's because most GM's just use them as enemies or something like that.
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Post  XandZero2 Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:57 pm

Jason Shadow wrote:I was also surprised that we haven't seen much of Diamond Dogs. I mean, you're not the first to bring them up, yet they've still received fairly little attention. Oh well, maybe having their own thread will help rectify that...

^I'm glad you brought that up Jason!

I like to be acknowledged (:

I really would like to see DDs become a playable race (as well as Sea Ponies - but that's for another thread), so...

-Two things I'm not sure about with the racial abilities you've come up with so far Grey:

1. The +2 to Perception checks. I can understand why DDs would have that, but usually Stairc doesn't like the idea of giving one race a distinct stat buff advantage over other races. That inclines people towards a certain type of build, and Stairc wants this system to allow for equally effective characters to be built from any race. -Just warning you ahead of time, but maybe you should just stick to the auto Nightvision?

2. Also, I like the concept behind Diamond in the Snuff, but I don't know if it would really be show-accurate to the DDs. Why would the Dogs have needed to kidnap Rarity if they had an ability like that? It just doesn't seem practical if they already have that kind of sniffing power. I don't think all DDs should automatically start with it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

That typed, I'd recommend switching Diamond in the Snuff for Bloodhound as a racial ability, and making DitS a racial utility instead. I think all DDs should be able to track, but not every DD should be able to find Gemstones so easily.
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Post  Cardbo Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:42 pm


Part of this Balanced Breakfast
You can eat gemstones and metal. And they are delicious.

This should probably be a racial trait. At least I can't see only some DD being able to eat gems and metals, and not others.
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Post  Greywander Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:50 pm

Okay, I tweaked Pierce the Heavens and Giga Drill Break, swapped out Keen Senses for Denizen of Underdark, made Part of this Balanced Breakfast a racial talent, made Diamond in the Snuff a utility talent, and added Pack Mentality as I felt the base racial talents were a touch underpowered.

XandZero2 wrote:2. Also, I like the concept behind Diamond in the Snuff, but I don't know if it would really be show-accurate to the DDs. Why would the Dogs have needed to kidnap Rarity if they had an ability like that? It just doesn't seem practical if they already have that kind of sniffing power. I don't think all DDs should automatically start with it.

My reasoning is that they would need some way to find gems in the first place, and Rarity was just much better at finding them.

I left Bloodhound as a utility talent, as I didn't think all diamond dogs should automatically have it. It's not actually a skill we see them use in the show, so there's no reason to think that it might be a common skill, if it's one they would have at all. Otherwise, it would make a good racial talent, since it doesn't boost or depend on specific attributes like Keen Senses or Diamond in the Snuff did.

Also, apologies for not seeing that diamond dogs had been brought up already.
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Post  XandZero2 Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:19 pm

Greywander wrote:Okay, I tweaked Pierce the Heavens and Giga Drill Break, swapped out Keen Senses for Denizen of Underdark, made Part of this Balanced Breakfast a racial talent, made Diamond in the Snuff a utility talent, and added Pack Mentality as I felt the base racial talents were a touch underpowered.

Pack Mentality seems like a good fit. I don't know if the burrowing abilities needed changing or not, but they look fine to me right now.

I figured your original reasoning for Diamond in the Snuff might be something like that. I can definitely see where your coming from, but I kind of figured that before Rarity, they were just digging blind like normal miners used to. Eh. No telling for sure really.

Greywander wrote:I left Bloodhound as a utility talent, as I didn't think all diamond dogs should automatically have it. It's not actually a skill we see them use in the show, so there's no reason to think that it might be a common skill, if it's one they would have at all.

True. They don't ever show them tracking things in the show...

Personally though, I still would love to see that ability become a racial for them. It's really flavorful if you're going off the idea that dogs are usually good trackers, and most of the time dogs and tracking do seem to go hand in paw.

Greywander wrote:Also, apologies for not seeing that diamond dogs had been brought up already.

^Not a problem dude. It's kewl Cool
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Post  Greywander Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:25 am

XandZero2 wrote:I don't know if the burrowing abilities needed changing or not, but they look fine to me right now.

Peirce the Heavens originally just gave a flat +15 bonus to tunneling and digging, which made sense at the time (they're good at digging, so just make them better at digging!), but it occurred to me that this would likely encourage players to put points into Stunts (likely the skill to be used for digging), so I made it more or less a weaker version of Giga Drill Break. I then tweaked the numbers slightly on that second one to buff it a little.

XandZero2 wrote:
Greywander wrote:I left Bloodhound as a utility talent, as I didn't think all diamond dogs should automatically have it. It's not actually a skill we see them use in the show, so there's no reason to think that it might be a common skill, if it's one they would have at all.

True. They don't ever show them tracking things in the show...

Personally though, I still would love to see that ability become a racial for them. It's really flavorful if you're going off the idea that dogs are usually good trackers, and most of the time dogs and tracking do seem to go hand in paw.

People always have the option of picking it up, this just means that not every diamond dog will be forced into a tracker role. It's one of those abilities that I'd like players to make a conscious decision to get, rather than just carrying it around and never using it because they don't really know what it does. Kind of like the unicorn's Mirage or Phase Step abilities. The unicorn's main ability is Ponykinesis, just like the diamond dog's is Pierce the Heavens. Every unicorn has telekinesis, just like every diamond dog can dig, but the more specialized abilities are spread a little thinner among the populous.
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Post  Greywander Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:55 am

Diamond dogs now compatible with the Genetic Engineering expansion pack. Feedback?
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Post  Cardbo Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:14 am

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
Choose a skill. Characters of your race gain training in that skill.

Looks good. Suggest mechanics for the above skill just because the paws would grant greater manual dexterity.
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Post  Greywander Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:27 am

Actually, despite how it sounds, I think this is supposed to be "get training in a third skill instead of a cutie mark". So, while the wording makes it sound like the creator of the race picks a skill and all members of that race automatically get training in it, but I'm treating it as the player choosing a third skill to train.
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Post  Cardbo Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:42 am

Greywander wrote:Actually, despite how it sounds, I think this is supposed to be "get training in a third skill instead of a cutie mark". So, while the wording makes it sound like the creator of the race picks a skill and all members of that race automatically get training in it, but I'm treating it as the player choosing a third skill to train.

I think if that were the case, it would've been more specific about that. There a racial trait that allows you to get a cutie mark, so that must mean the default is not having a cutie mark. And if you don't have a cutie mark, you automatically get three trained skills. So I'm thinking the above talent must be in addition to those three trained skills.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:29 am

The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
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Post  Whiteeyes Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:57 am

So the race's creator has to pick the skill then?
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Post  Greywander Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:02 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
Ah, so it is actually the way it sounds. The creator of the race picks the skill to get free training. I think I brought up the issue of minmaxing before, but I guess that's not a serious one here, as you can't stack training. If you want to play a character of a different race with training in that skill, you can just choose to train that skill, so it doesn't really make one race "better" than another.

I'm assuming then that there isn't an equivalent to the older 2T+CM for ponies, and 3T for nonponies. This would become a moot issue if we changed to a 5+CM (like Living Legends) or 6+CM, as has been discussed in the Genetic Engineering thread, since then we wouldn't have to worry about covering for a missing cutie mark with an extra trained skill. I assume you guys are busy at the moment, though, and will reevaluate the racial system when you have time, so no need to feel rushed. I wasn't planning on playing a diamond dog in a game any time soon, anyway, just felt like they should have a racial template.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:32 pm

Greywander wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
Ah, so it is actually the way it sounds. The creator of the race picks the skill to get free training. I think I brought up the issue of minmaxing before, but I guess that's not a serious one here, as you can't stack training. If you want to play a character of a different race with training in that skill, you can just choose to train that skill, so it doesn't really make one race "better" than another.

Exactly. I discussed why this doesn't encourage min/maxing in detail in the "Ask a simple question" thread, which was just a longer way of saying exactly why you did right here. =)

Greywander wrote:I'm assuming then that there isn't an equivalent to the older 2T+CM for ponies, and 3T for nonponies. This would become a moot issue if we changed to a 5+CM (like Living Legends) or 6+CM, as has been discussed in the Genetic Engineering thread, since then we wouldn't have to worry about covering for a missing cutie mark with an extra trained skill. I assume you guys are busy at the moment, though, and will reevaluate the racial system when you have time, so no need to feel rushed. I wasn't planning on playing a diamond dog in a game any time soon, anyway, just felt like they should have a racial template.

Absolutely. When finals are over we'll take a long look at the race system, plus additional expansions. We're also developing multiple other games. This one's just our favorite to work on. =)
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Post  Jason Shadow Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:35 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Greywander wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:The trait is just to give your race free extra training in a particular skill.
Ah, so it is actually the way it sounds. The creator of the race picks the skill to get free training. I think I brought up the issue of minmaxing before, but I guess that's not a serious one here, as you can't stack training. If you want to play a character of a different race with training in that skill, you can just choose to train that skill, so it doesn't really make one race "better" than another.

Exactly. I discussed why this doesn't encourage min/maxing in detail in the "Ask a simple question" thread, which was just a longer way of saying exactly why you did right here. =)

Greywander wrote:I'm assuming then that there isn't an equivalent to the older 2T+CM for ponies, and 3T for nonponies. This would become a moot issue if we changed to a 5+CM (like Living Legends) or 6+CM, as has been discussed in the Genetic Engineering thread, since then we wouldn't have to worry about covering for a missing cutie mark with an extra trained skill. I assume you guys are busy at the moment, though, and will reevaluate the racial system when you have time, so no need to feel rushed. I wasn't planning on playing a diamond dog in a game any time soon, anyway, just felt like they should have a racial template.

Absolutely. When finals are over we'll take a long look at the race system, plus additional expansions. We're also developing multiple other games. This one's just our favorite to work on. =)

So if the creator of the race picks the skill to get free training, and everyone who picks that race gains free training in that particular skill... then shouldn't there be specific skills assigned to the appropriate races in the RoE document? As it stands, most of them still say "pick one".
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Post  ZamuelNow Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:23 pm

I'm also going "Whaaa???" to having Hippogriffs as playable but no Diamond Dogs. I'm new and all but I have come up with an idea for a racial build for them plus some spare traits for others to use in the system as a whole.

Diamond Dogs
Denizens of the dirt, Diamond Dogs desire jeweled delights. Whether they find them on they own or obtain them from others, this powerful pack will pocket their precious.

Earth Mover (2)
You may travel through dirt and sand with the same ease most others use for normal travel. You may also travel through clay-like or rocky soil with no penalties. Furthermore, you may close any tunnels you've made at will.

Herd Mentality (1)
Whenever an ally successfully aids you on a skill check, you gain an additional +1 bonus to the check.

Echoing Howl (1)
Diamond Dogs gain the "Call Out" trait.

Covet Your Neighbor (4) 2/day
Twice per day when another creature makes a skill check within your line of sight you may choose to record that die roll. These die results are “stored” until you expend them when using the following talent or until the next day when they are then lost until you observe another creature's skill check.

Beggars Can Be Choosers - Interrupt 2/day
Trigger - You or a creature in your line of sight makes a skill check and you dislike the result.
Effect - Treat the die as though you or they had rolled one of the stored die results. The stored roll result is swapped out for the new roll. For example, if you rolled a natural 1 - you could trade it out for the natural 20 you were lucky enough to roll at the end of your last extended rest. Likewise, if another creature rolled a natural 20 - you could trade it out for a stored natural 1.


Traits for Genetic Engineering or utility talents

Burrower
You may travel through dirt and sand with the same ease most others use for normal travel. Additional skill checks may be required for traveling through clay or rocky soil.

Earth Mover
(requires Burrower)
You may travel through clay-like or rocky soil with no penalties. Furthermore, you may close any tunnels you've made at will.

Some basic tunneling talents makes sense to add to the system for any number of creatures. I figure Covet Your Neighbor fits in with being awesome enough to not have a Cutie Mark and makes for very different play than other races. Alternate name idea for Beggars Can Be Choosers was going to be "The Other Side of the Fence".
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Post  Dusk Raven Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:13 pm

So, I suddenly got into a Diamond Dog craze, and decided to see if they were in Pony Tales.

I was displeased that they were not, but was pleased to find this thread.

As per the above suggestion - "storing" dice rolls is a rather interesting mechanic... gives me the idea of a race that isn't too good at doing things on their own but is great at mimicking others.
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Post  ZamuelNow Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:25 pm

Diamond Dog - Updated suggestion proposal:

Updated proposal for Diamond Dogs as a system canon race.  Dropped the custom racial due to various comments from the designers about making things that encourage people to just repeatedly roll.  Everything else seems like it fits in to how they are in the show.  Anyone have suggestions for flavor text?
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Post  Kindulas Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:43 pm

What if, instead of a skill training they could get Cultural Knowledge to gems and digging? or something like that - I don't think we have any races that use the Cultural Knowledge for flavoring, but there's good potential there.

Or... wait, no scent tracker? Would that be something they would have?
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Post  ZamuelNow Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:09 am

The above build was based off before Scent Tracker got the cost lowered.  Let me copypasta from the most current expansion submission.  I think Dan's comment in the Crystal Ponies thread has got me thinking they'd actually work better for Cultural Knowledge.

Race - Diamond Dogs:
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