New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

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New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Greywander on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:04 pm

Mimic

[0] Parody - Standard Utility
You gain a number of pips equal to the absolute value of the pip cost of the last combat talent used.

[-4] Copycat - Reaction Utility
Trigger - A character uses a combat talent.
Effect - You gain that combat talent for the rest of the battle, replacing Copycat.

[-5] Mime - Reaction Utility
Trigger - A character uses a combat talent.
Effect - You perform the same combat talent, but lose your standard action on your next turn.

[-8] Impersonate - Standard Utility
You take on the persona of target creature. For the rest of the battle or until you stop impersonating that creature, you gain the combat talents, traits, special moves, items, and save ends effects of your persona, replacing your own, but retain your own HP and pips. You can stop impersonating any time as a free action. You can only impersonate one creature at a time.

Parody has potential for abuse, for example if the character immediately proceeding you uses a high pip cost ability. However, I don't think they'd be able to do this consistently, so it might not be a major problem.

-----

Gambler

[0] Try Your Luck - Standard Utility
Gain 1d4 pips.

[-1] Trap Card - Interrupt Utility
Trigger - An enemy rolls a 1 on a die while using a combat talent.
Effect - You may reselect the target of the combat talent at will.

[-2] Roulette Spin - Standard Utility
Roll 1d20. On a 20, gain 7 pips.

[-2] I'm Feeling Lucky - Standard Attack
Deal 2d6 damage to target enemy. On a 7, activate one of your special moves of your choice.

[-2] Loaded Dice - Interrupt Utility
Trigger - You roll a die, and dislike the result.
Effect - Reroll the die and take the preferred result.

[-4] Blackjack - Standard Utility
Roll dice successively with increasing size, starting with a d4, followed by a d6, d8, d10, d12, up to a d20. Deal that much damage to all enemies. If the value exceeds 21, this talent has no effect. You may choose to stop rolling dice, e.g. roll a d4, d6, d8, and then stop, in order to prevent the amount exceeding 21.

[-6] Five of a Kind - Standard Utility
Roll 5d6. Use the following table to determine the effect.
Three of a Kind: Sum the total of the three dice and deal that much damage to one enemy.
Four of a Kind: Sum the total of all dice and deal that much damage to one enemy.
Full House: Heal yourself or an ally for the sum of the pair, and deal the sum of the triple in damage to one enemy.
Small Straight: Remove all save ends effects from an ally.
Large Straight: Target enemy loses 3 pips.
Five of a Kind: Sum the total of all dice and deal that much damage to all enemies. Also, activate one of your special moves of your choice.
Any other combination: Heal yourself for 1d8.

Eh, not too sure about Five of a Kind. Not sure about Roulette Spin, either. I like the concept, but I'm not sure if it's over or underpowered as given.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Xel Unknown on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:26 pm

Roulette Spin, might count as a saving throw. That'll make it worth using. Also having it be a minor action could help it out too.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Paper Shadow on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:41 pm

Greywander wrote:[-5] Mime - Reaction Utility
Trigger - A character uses a combat talent.
Effect - You perform the same combat talent, but lose your standard action on your next turn.
Double It's Over for only -5? I'd take that...

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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  SilentBelle on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:48 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:Roulette Spin, might count as a saving throw. That'll make it worth using. Also having it be a minor action could help it out too.

Either that or make it a d12 roll. Or even gain 1d8 - 1 pips... I do like the saving throw idea though.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Whiteeyes on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:41 pm

Paper Shadow wrote:
Greywander wrote:[-5] Mime - Reaction Utility
Trigger - A character uses a combat talent.
Effect - You perform the same combat talent, but lose your standard action on your next turn.
Double It's Over for only -5? I'd take that...
Ladies and Gentelmen, we have an abuse!
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Greywander on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:03 am

Whiteeyes wrote:
Paper Shadow wrote:
Greywander wrote:[-5] Mime - Reaction Utility
Trigger - A character uses a combat talent.
Effect - You perform the same combat talent, but lose your standard action on your next turn.
Double It's Over for only -5? I'd take that...
Ladies and Gentelmen, we have an abuse!
First, if you've managed to pull of It's Over, the battle's probably already, you know, over. There's really no way to account for things like this; it's like the d12 crit for Derpy's Lightning. The whole point of this ability is to give you a chance to duplicate an ability without necessarily having to pay its cost. It will also make enemies think more carefully about what abilities they use. The fact that it uses a modest amount of pips and deprives you of your next standard action (making it harder to keep your pips up) will make it harder to continuously chain with high cost moves.

I'm not saying it isn't breakable. But I do think it's more or less balanced outside of tactics deliberately designed to abuse it. We could put a limit on the pip cost of moves it can copy, or have the pip cost of Mime depend on the cost of the move being copied, but that, in my opinion, detracts from the appeal of the ability.

SilentBelle wrote:
Xel Unknown wrote:Roulette Spin, might count as a saving throw. That'll make it worth using. Also having it be a minor action could help it out too.

Either that or make it a d12 roll. Or even gain 1d8 - 1 pips... I do like the saving throw idea though.
That makes it too much like Grab For Power, in my opinion. And the reason I chose a d20 instead of a d12 was so that it couldn't crit. Although perhaps I could change it to d12 and specify that it can't activate your special move. It still seems like kind of a longshot ability that most people wouldn't bother with, though, so maybe the saving throw is a good idea. It just doesn't quite seem to fit with the flavor.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Xel Unknown on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:38 am

Making the Roulette Spin with more different outcomes and make it also be able to count as a saving throw would be so very much cool I say. Make the 1 to 10 outcomes do something cool or something along with 20 giving 7 pips. That's be really awesome. :3

Or maybe have it be something as simple as Even do something good, odd does something bad?

With both 20 and 1 being special outcomes...
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  thematthew on Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:40 am

Greywander wrote:
[0] Parody - Standard Utility
You gain a number of pips equal to the absolute value of the pip cost of the last combat talent used.

Easiest abuse is to pair with Gather Energy and use the same high-pip cost power every other turn.

e.g. Gather Energy 1 turn, following turn, Royal Command & parody. Repeat as necessary.

Actually, depending on how your team is set up, you could potentially make an infinite combo out of that.

Guys 1 and 2 have 10 pips, Guy 1 Royal Command at guys 2-5 and parody. Guy 1 uses his free action to Royal Command. Uses his extra Free Action to Parody again. Guy 2 uses his first free Action to Royal Command, Second to Parody, Third to Royal Command 4th to Parody. Moving Back to Guy 1 for a moment, His 2 new actions Are Royal Command and Parody...

And so on.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Paper Shadow on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:05 pm

Greywander wrote:
Whiteeyes wrote:
Paper Shadow wrote:
Greywander wrote:[-5] Mime - Reaction Utility
Trigger - A character uses a combat talent.
Effect - You perform the same combat talent, but lose your standard action on your next turn.
Double It's Over for only -5? I'd take that...
Ladies and Gentelmen, we have an abuse!
First, if you've managed to pull of It's Over, the battle's probably already, you know, over. There's really no way to account for things like this; it's like the d12 crit for Derpy's Lightning. The whole point of this ability is to give you a chance to duplicate an ability without necessarily having to pay its cost. It will also make enemies think more carefully about what abilities they use. The fact that it uses a modest amount of pips and deprives you of your next standard action (making it harder to keep your pips up) will make it harder to continuously chain with high cost moves.

I'm not saying it isn't breakable. But I do think it's more or less balanced outside of tactics deliberately designed to abuse it. We could put a limit on the pip cost of moves it can copy, or have the pip cost of Mime depend on the cost of the move being copied, but that, in my opinion, detracts from the appeal of the ability.
As I see it, whenever someone uses It's Over as an example, it's just the extreme case, but it gets its point across. It's the same with other strong abilities...

Double Crescendo? Yes please!
Double Midnight's Blade? Don't mind if I do!
Double Second Sunrise (Third Sunrise?)? Oh go on, I'll treat myself...

Also any enemy ability can be used against them after the first turn of the guy who has Parody, meaning if they do anything meaningful, it heads straight back at them...

Also if you stack enough pips, you can cast it multiple times and only lose the standard action for your next turn once...

Also Mime into Mime will actually break the game...


Last edited by Paper Shadow on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I keep thinking Mime is Parody because I am an idiot, so I fixed it...)

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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:12 pm

Mimic is really hard to balance and keep it worth using without it scaling in some way. The fact is, if you cost it at -5, it's a strict advantage in cost to casting more expensive abilities. At -7, it's still a discount to -10 abilities.

What about a version that lets you copy an ability an ally used in the last round, but requires you to pay 1 more pip for it? Or a 1/battle item that lets you do this *expecting* you to get a huge discount on a massive ability. If we expect this to be used to copy a -10 power, that's a 5 pip difference... And we can balance that based on how much gold it costs to get the item in the first place.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Ramsus on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:40 am

[-2] No, let's use my dice - Interrupt Utility
Trigger - You roll a die, and dislike the result.
Effect - Roll the next higher die size and take the result.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:41 pm

Ramsus wrote:[-2] No, let's use my dice - Interrupt Utility
Trigger - You roll a die, and dislike the result.
Effect - Roll the next higher die size and take the result.

Interesting. What happens if you roll a d20?
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Xel Unknown on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:43 pm

You roll a d100 clearly... XD
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  thematthew on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:45 pm

Nah, d30. They're more awesome.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  SilentBelle on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:15 pm

thematthew wrote:Nah, d30. They're more awesome.

D30's cool. I remember a certain monster that does 1d(X*10) damage where X is the number of pips spent. And it's easy enough to roll.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  thematthew on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:50 pm

I was suggesting the d30 because I'm the only person I know who bothered to buy one. That thing was massive and awesome.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Ramsus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:19 am

[-1] Two Headed Coin - Interrupt Utility
Trigger - You would flip a coin.
Effect - You win the coin toss.

[+1] Two Tailed Coin - Interrupt Utility 3/Battle
Trigger - You would flip a coin.
Effect - You lose the coin toss.

[0] Lucky Penny - Interrupt Utility 1/Battle
Trigger - You would flip a coin.
Effect - You choose the outcome of the coin toss.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Whiteeyes on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:24 pm

thematthew wrote:I was suggesting the d30 because I'm the only person I know who bothered to buy one. That thing was massive and awesome.
My friend has one of those. He also has a d16, a d14, a dMediocre as he calls it (d6 that can only roll 2-4), a d17-28, a d3, and a d5. He likes collecting odd dice.
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Re: New combat classes: Mimic and Gambler

Post  Xel Unknown on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:51 pm

Pitty he doesn't seem to have a d7 die...
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