Harminous Element

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Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:21 pm

Inspired by Philadelphus's Talent Specialization.

Also, I am making this up as I go along so I don't really have an concrete ideas on it atm.

The elements of harmony, powerful artifacts that both restore and are powered by harmony and the bonds between others. The creatures in Pony Tales can each tap into the power of an element to aid themselves and others, and increasing the harmony within themselves and the world around them, makes them stronger.

So... why doesn't the power that they can call upon get stronger as they become more harmonious? It makes sense doesn't it? The more harmony one has with oneself and the world, the greater power they can call upon from the elements of harmony themselves right? Of course, how it becomes more powerful can change depending on who the person is, and maybe what they have done as well. Also, perhaps they might sacrificing strengthening one a single element, in order to take on the abilities of a second. After all, not everyone embodies a single, sole element. They might have parts of two or three within them, instead of one. So why not be able to tap into the power's of both elements, but weaker then those who just eombody one element?

As I said at the start, I'm not entirely sure how this would work. Maybe its like the Talent Specialization that inspired this, and you get 'Harmony Points' that can be spent on powering up your elements in different ways, or even splashing out and taking parts of a second element that you can piece together to having 2 completely different elements.

What do people think of the idea?


Document explaining the mechanics of the idea can be found here!


Last edited by Fury of the Tempest on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:22 pm

I definitely like the idea of people being able to power up their element as they go along. Could this work into utility talents by any chance?
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:27 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:I definitely like the idea of people being able to power up their element as they go along. Could this work into utility talents by any chance?

That was quick O.O

But yeah... I guess it COULD be worked into utility talents, but doing that kinda loses the... specialness of the elements of harmony. Save for Magic, none of them are related to utility talents whatsoever (even if that's kinda what the are, special utility talents) and linking them... well it just won't feel the same anymore.

Plus, didn't you once say you want to avoid cross-linking the different mechanics to keep things as flexible as possible?
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  LoganAura on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:28 pm

he was talking about Combat and RP mostly.
And Laughter has a Utility in the Talent Show Expansion: The fun Has Been Doubled.

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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:30 pm

LoganAura wrote:he was talking about Combat and RP mostly.

I know, but still. The mechanics should be kept apart and I can see why.

LoganAura wrote:And Laughter has a Utility in the Talent Show Expansion: The fun Has Been Doubled.

Laughter is the only one which I can see having a Utility talent and not losing its zing, due to its very different and unique ability.
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:31 pm

LoganAura wrote:he was talking about Combat and RP mostly.
And Laughter has a Utility in the Talent Show Expansion: The fun Has Been Doubled.

Right. I don't want to force players to have their decisions about their playstyle in combat effect their roleplaying decisions. Choosing between the combat they enjoy and the character they want to roleplay is always a painful choice if they're at all different.

The only reason I mention working them into an existing game element, like utility talents, is so that players don't need to learn additional rules. Keeping the system as simple as possible is a huge draw. I agree though that it would make the elements more special if they did have unique rules.

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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:35 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Right. I don't want to force players to have their decisions about their playstyle in combat effect their roleplaying decisions. Choosing between the combat they enjoy and the character they want to roleplay is always a painful choice if they're at all different.

The only reason I mention working them into an existing game element, like utility talents, is so that players don't need to learn additional rules. Keeping the system as simple as possible is a huge draw. I agree though that it would make the elements more special if they did have unique rules.

Well... why not make the element's special rule's optional? Reminds me of how in D&D Next they have been talking about how they are going to have different modules to make the games as flexible and customizable as possible, and we already have one optional rule (admittedly when it comes to combat) so why not do the same here? That way, the extra complexity doesn't have to be used by those that don't like it, and those that find it a neat idea can use it.
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:35 pm

We can definitely do that. =)
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:39 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:We can definitely do that. =)

Glad you like it! The module idea is probably something to keep in mind as well with further development into the game... the Talent Specialization which inspired this idea could also work rather well as a module, don't you think?

I wonder if could work for traits and/or combat talents as well...
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:42 pm

Certainly could. Of course, even optional stuff needs to go through our review process (like the Genetic Engineering and Talent Show optional expansions) if we're going to call special attention to it. Otherwise, anyone can always use anyone's forum ideas.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going. santa
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:43 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Certainly could. Of course, even optional stuff needs to go through our review process (like the Genetic Engineering and Talent Show optional expansions) if we're going to call special attention to it. Otherwise, anyone can always use anyone's forum ideas.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going. santa

What is the review process exactly?
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:55 pm

Nehiel, Kindulas and I sit down for a few hours and work out everything to make sure it's balanced and solid design. Takes a while for us to get free time for this and takes a lot of time to go over it in detail. Art of War took dozens of hours, as did the destiny and talent show expansions.
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:57 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Nehiel, Kindulas and I sit down for a few hours and work out everything to make sure it's balanced and solid design. Takes a while for us to get free time for this and takes a lot of time to go over it in detail. Art of War took dozens of hours, as did the destiny and talent show expansions.

I see... and adding an entirely new game mechanic - optional or not - is certainly going to take quite some time to make sure its balanced as well as solid.

There's no official pre-reviews or anything is there?
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:18 pm

What do you mean by, "pre-review" exactly?
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:22 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:What do you mean by, "pre-review" exactly?

Well, I know people on here sometimes give feedback to things they take an interest in. But there are no people that other's can PM their thread/idea's/whatever and say 'Hey, I think this is good, can you help me polish it please'? They go over it with the person, polish it until its shining, then send it off to review/testing processes. Probably putting the idea's into one document.

Something like that would make it easier for ideas on the boards to make it into the official expansions, and it'll also help stream-line the review process as well. Admittedly, these people would have to know the behind the scenes calculations and stuff for items, combat talents etc. Through I guess they could specialize in one area..
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:32 pm

That sounds like a great idea. There could be a test-process to make sure the people understand the formulas we use behind the scenes too, so we know they're able to help polish on their own.

That's been a major issue going forward. Kindulas, Nehiel and I don't get free time to dedicate to working on new expansions or polishing submissions very often. When we do, we polish what we think people want the most or what's currently the biggest problem with the system. This means we have a huge amount of material from the forums to draw from, and it's hard to find the best ideas - or at least the ideas that are closest to balanced and not missing any design issues (like vaguely worded utility talents that would cause arguments at the table, or things that mix combat bonuses with non-combat bonuses).

Does creating an Official Reviewer position and process-to-become-one sound like a good idea?
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:35 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:That sounds like a great idea. There could be a test-process to make sure the people understand the formulas we use behind the scenes too, so we know they're able to help polish on their own.

That's been a major issue going forward. Kindulas, Nehiel and I don't get free time to dedicate to working on new expansions or polishing submissions very often. When we do, we polish what we think people want the most or what's currently the biggest problem with the system. This means we have a huge amount of material from the forums to draw from, and it's hard to find the best ideas - or at least the ideas that are closest to balanced and not missing any design issues (like vaguely worded utility talents that would cause arguments at the table, or things that mix combat bonuses with non-combat bonuses).

Does creating an Official Reviewer position and process-to-become-one sound like a good idea?

A evolved form of my idea? Sounds GREAT to me!

Probably gonna have to talk to Kindulas and Nehiel about it first, but something like this could probably do with a global announcement. Something like this is big, and we want people to know about it, don't we?
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:39 pm

Absolutely. Hey, why don't you write up the idea and PM it to Kindulas and Nehiel? Of course, I can run it by them myself if you want me to - but it was your idea at the core and I'd really like to give you a chance to shape it from the inside out. Very Happy
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:42 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Absolutely. Hey, why don't you write up the idea and PM it to Kindulas and Nehiel? Of course, I can run it by them myself if you want me to - but it was your idea at the core and I'd really like to give you a chance to shape it from the inside out. Very Happy

Thanks for the offer, its great to see you giving me a chance to shape it, but I think it is best that I simply provide the core of the idea.

Plus, its kinda late over here and developing the Harmonious Elements Module and keeping all with these talks is currently taking all of my brain power.
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:43 pm

No problem. I'll run it by them sometime this week, when we get that fabled free moment. =)
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:44 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:No problem. I'll run it by them sometime this week, when we get that fabled free moment. =)

Okay.

I still find it weird how on a thread that was inspiried by someone else's idea, an idea which could hugely help the development of the game as a whole.
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:34 am

Okay! I have a document explaining the in's and out's of the idea, and how it all works.

However, it the working could probably do with some polishing, and to be honest. I need ideas as to how to actually buff the elements. So ideas and suggestions would be very welcome indeed!
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  A1C Bronymous on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:50 am

So, you're talking about adding on Elements to your character as you go, or enhancing the one already selected? Or Both? If the latter, I think you'd have to consider a way to downgrade the elements as they are, in order to build on them. Generosity already grants a +15 assist, and the only way to upgrade is to go to, say +20 or +30 for the next level, or decrease the cost- make it 2/ Magic Point, etc. I don't even know what you'd do for the others.
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:56 am

Bronymous wrote:So, you're talking about adding on Elements to your character as you go, or enhancing the one already selected? Or Both? If the latter, I think you'd have to consider a way to downgrade the elements as they are, in order to build on them. Generosity already grants a +15 assist, and the only way to upgrade is to go to, say +20 or +30 for the next level, or decrease the cost- make it 2/ Magic Point, etc. I don't even know what you'd do for the others.

You didn't read the document did you? It fully explains that idea.
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Re: Harminous Element

Post  Whiteeyes on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:43 pm

It's a nice idea, but I'm going to need to see some practical examples before I can really add in my two cents.
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