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Define "Magic"

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Post  Grey Pen The Flawed Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:01 pm

That seems sound; Lemme alter it a bit?

Much like electricity, you have Alternating (Chaotic) and Direct (Harmonic) magic. Again, the primary difference is source and application. Direct magic comes from the self; as such, it is much more easily controlled. Alternating comes from the surrounding magic of the universe; as such, there's quite a bit more of it, but it's more difficult to harness.

Discord just happens to be a master of Alternating magic; this is why he can work spells so quickly and easily, despite being on such a grand scale. Celestia and Luna happen to be masters (mistresses?) of Direct Magic; they have an immensely more powerful inner-magic, which provides a grander scale than normal ponies and greater control than Discord.

So Discord (probably) knows what he's trying to do... but, his Alternating Magic may not actually work as intended all the time. When it doesn't, he simply doesn't care, and therefore doesn't show his own surprise at the results, giving the illusion of complete control, when in fact it is only partial.
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Post  Whiteeyes Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:35 am

I personally see magic as a form of energy, and like all forms of energy it can be used to achieve different results based on how it is used. Like electricity, there is nothing inherantly good or bad about magic, just how you apply it. To me there is no morality in magic, just in how you use it.
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Post  RavenscroftRaven Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:22 pm

Since Dresden was brought up as a credible source (really? He's the definition of "unreliable narrator", and his coat is no evidence against science; localized antigravity could easily allow all the components and still have the coat be lighter than before, his science is simply not "sufficiently advanced". He falls into the same pitfall as the cavemen and thunder, being unable to conceptualize science beyond its current state. The saying is not "Current existing modern science is indistinguishable from magic", but "sufficiently advanced science". Remember, only in the past 50-odd years have we concluded that Euclidean geometry isn't actually truth.)...

I'll bring up the Saga of Recluse, which is basically what Greywander wants to say. Black magic is harmony, white magic is discord, I think they even explain it in those terms, too. However, it always opens the possibility of "Grey" magic, some mish-mash-mesh of the two, which can be problematic but exists in any system and presents more instability than either of the two pure options, dragging magic from absolutely anything and brute-forcing it to fit their needs.

Going off electricity, this would be a device that could run off AC or DC, or even both at the same time with two plugs. Yes, a greater fire hazard, but much more utile in general.

As for Discord and True Seeing, in-canon he is the definition of Entropy more than anything else, despite his name. It takes a great deal of order to break through to him (like the Elements). Regular magic, if you so desired, including the True Seeing, could do completely inappropriate things depending on random chance or rule of funny, like making it actually x-ray vision, seeing pony skeletons everywhere, or making it show ONLY the illusions, or just blind the pony. It could, also, show the harmonic state of the world, making the pony walk into very real walls that only exist there due to chaos.

Because where's the fun in making sense? Discord, despite his amiable disposition, is basically Equestria's Cthulhu. He is an elder god of destruction, meant to wreak havoc. If you've reached a state in your game where you need to face him, you're either

A: Far too weak, and the chaos should reinforce this, or
2: Far more versatile than one spell, and accept that everything you do will never work as intended and still have a shot.
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Post  Greywander Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:50 am

Here's a different magic system for a fantasy setting I was building and should probably get back to someday.

And that is... that there is no magic. Humans, and the multitude of other sapient races inhabiting the world, don't do "magic". This isn't to say some of them don't have mystical powers of one kind or another, but wizards and mages as we know them simply don't exist, with one exception. What the setting does have is spirits, lots and lots of spirits. The pantheon for the world is kind of bizarre: there's a single Creator-God at the top, responsible for the existence of everything else, making the cosmology decidedly monotheistic; however, there are a multitude of other gods and goddesses, as well as numerous spirits, making the the world range from polytheistic to animistic depending on how deep you go. Three of the major gods are literally the earth, the sea, and the sky. Even individual rocks and plants have their own spirits, though they might not be either intelligent or powerful enough to really concern sapient creatures. Obviously, the major gods are quite powerful; the god of earth can literally toss mountains around with ease. So if you do ever run into a "wizard", it's probably actually a god in disguise. Note that this doesn't differ too much from Gandalf, who is equivalent to an angel or lesser god in the Middle Earth setting, and was also partially inspired by the Norse god Odin.

So, while a human can't ever throw fireballs himself, what he can do is communicate with the various spirits in the world, and get one of them to throw fireballs for him. These types of people are extremely rare, though, and for good reason. Most of these spirits are dangerous, and don't like being bossed around, while others are too weak or stupid to really do anything useful and might as well not exist. You have to know what a lesser spirit can and can't do, as well as how to properly communicate with it, and either befriend more powerful spirits, or else project such a commanding presence that they are compelled to obey you. As an example, you could command a lock to open, and it just might work! It's also possible to manipulate spirits indirectly, for example, you might inscribe geometric symbols around your campsite to ward off a certain kind of spirit, and what it's actually doing is that the spirits in question find those specific symbols to be repulsive or disgusting.

Something I like about this system of magic is that it retains its mystical aspect even when it's explained. And spirits might not always cooperate, making it less than an exact science that requires great care to be taken. "Magic" basically ranges from training particularly stupid dogs to do tricks (lesser spirits) to making deals with the mafia (greater spirits). This isn't really relevant to My Little Pony, since there's little reason to think magic works that way in MLP, but it might be useful for those using Living Legends.
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Post  Whiteeyes Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:31 pm

That the magic system from L5R...or the main one at least. The other two are demon/blood magic which is evil and literally uses lives as fuel, and koan whis is using limited enlightenment to cause effects with your own spiritual power.

So baically in that setting the three options for magic are 1) make deals and be friends with spirits 2) get lots of blood to spill 3) fully realize at least one of the 288 eternal truths of creation.
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