Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Hayatecooper wrote:

Kindulas wrote:

If you want to do the super, super minor things that Hayatecooper things are describing, I mean... stuff like that SHOULD be doable by like 8-10 arcana people even with the -7. It all depends. And besides, you can talk to your DM if they make that simple stuff too hard. Because we believe that creating just enough wind to knock off someone's hat should have a very small DC if you have even the 1st tier IWC.

Well, no.
If I have 10 and your making me take -7, even an easy DC of 15 is still rather hard, cause you're only getting a +3 bonus. Heck, if you only take 6, that's negative 1. So that's 16 or higher you have to roll.

I don't mind the extra pre-req, I can live with that I guess, but I don't have to worship it.
I don't like the -7 bonus, which is why I suggested something like Copycat.
Which I'm curious of what you think of by the way.

I'll be honest, I've heard you mention the word copycat a bunch and I have no idea what you're talking about. Explain?

Hayatecooper wrote:No, I put that there as a joke cause it was getting kinda long. But I know if someone reads this thread later that they'll skip it and get hit by that and it'll amuse me.

I've been doing a lot of bitching and no actual helping so here's my contribution and ideas to how a two talent IWC could be done(While also allowing people with both high imagination and low imagination to use it fairly). No one likes a flat penalty, no on. So what I'm going to suggest is you do something more akin to PK which has the 25 weight limit rather then a -x on the roll.

Idea

Copycat - at will
Your magic is high, but your creativity is low. You can copy magic effects you see on a daily bases or the innate magics of people close to you. You may attempt to copy any utility talents that you or your allies have with an Arcana roll though the roll is also set to 30(35?) or higher depending on the complexity of the talent in question. (evidently Magic costing talents would be at 50 while say something that's 5/day would be 30 you could probably make a table).

(This is a pre-req for the IWC we have now)

I choose copycat because it allows the same sorta effects of IWC but on a much smaller and more controllable scale, while also allowing it to feel flexible and useful. Broken? Most likely it needs fixing up, but it shows what I mean by giving a penalty without slapping on a flat bonus that just makes the talent feel a lot less fun.

(Third times a charm for attempting to post this)

Here it is. Thoughts and comments pleases and thank yous!

Too many pages, so maybe someone else said this already. Or maybe this doesn't fit with the intent of IW, but here's a suggestion.

IW (as I understood it) could be used two ways- one way was to amplify the effects of most existing talents, and the other was to use Arcana to come up with unlisted effects on the fly. Ignoring how DCs might be set for those, then you could split those into the two talents for IW. Forget arbitrary penalties, just halve what can be done, and if someone wants to maximize the usefulness, they still have to take both talents, making it less broken.

Just a thought, something to build on. Never been a fan of IW anyway, but hey.

As for the new Flight tree, I guess if it means that pegasi start at -5 rather than -10, then that's a step in the right direction. I would have preferred the bonus to remain, but I guess if I'm rolling twice, at the very least it will be VERY hard to Crit Fail.

Hmmm, splitting it in half doesn't sound like a half bad idea.

I kinda agree... Spilting the possible effects of It's Witchcraft in half could totally work. And I think it'd go over better then just nerfing it...

Halve it, make it for more specific uses whatever.

But the flat penalty look unpleasant and I'm not sure it'll work.

Guys we figured it out!!!!
We won't have a "Penalty" to the first tier. You guys want to do small things with IWC? That's what it will do. The first tier IWC will simply tell you it can only be used for minor style effects. It'll just have a ceiling to it's application. Then the second one will let you do bigger things.

Yeah, that works really nicely actually.

Kindulas wrote:Guys we figured it out!!!!
We won't have a "Penalty" to the first tier. You guys want to do small things with IWC? That's what it will do. The first tier IWC will simply tell you it can only be used for minor style effects. It'll just have a ceiling to it's application. Then the second one will let you do bigger things.

Now this would be ALOT better for us all. You get your magic teir system and we avoid getting insane pentales....

I liked Bronymous' idea better. First off it meant both Utilities did something you cared about. Secondly how do we define minor in a way all GMs agree on?

Edit: Technically speaking I liked all other ideas better actually.

Ramsus wrote:I liked Bronymous' idea better. First off it meant both Utilities did something you cared about. Secondly how do we define minor in a way all GMs agree on?

Edit: Technically speaking I liked all other ideas better actually.

Okay, so, splitting the part where you buff your magical utility talents, and the part where you create other effects wouldn't solve the problem. The issue is the one talent that lets you make all the big effects of your own. Minorly buffing your talents is like a small part of the ability that we don't need to nerf anyway.

Kindulas wrote:Guys we figured it out!!!!
We won't have a "Penalty" to the first tier. You guys want to do small things with IWC? That's what it will do. The first tier IWC will simply tell you it can only be used for minor style effects. It'll just have a ceiling to it's application. Then the second one will let you do bigger things.

I don't know I still think this would work.
You'd just have to word it really really carefully so people understood exactly what counts as a "Minor effect"

I mean my going into a room and burning it down is a "minor crime" to me, to others that's "arson" and "evil".

So yeah, word it well and it could be good, word it wrong and it'll just create more confusion.

Yeah ok. I was kinda derping there. Sorry Kindulas. It's just my default to you is set to hate because of cats. I mean. I'm allergic to cats. Thus I hate you. I mean. This makes sense. Now ignore it. Moving on.

Ok so, could you have the first in the tree still allow for modifying spells? I don't see that as part of the problem that needs to be dropped.

Ramsus wrote:Yeah ok. I was kinda derping there. Sorry Kindulas. It's just my default to you is set to hate because of cats. I mean. I'm allergic to cats. Thus I hate you. I mean. This makes sense. Now ignore it. Moving on.

Ok so, could you have the first in the tree still allow for modifying spells? I don't see that as part of the problem that needs to be dropped.

Its okay. We hate Kindulas as well! Hes always late. Like today. Come on man we said meet at 1 not 1:30!

Hayatecooper wrote:

Kindulas wrote:Guys we figured it out!!!!
We won't have a "Penalty" to the first tier. You guys want to do small things with IWC? That's what it will do. The first tier IWC will simply tell you it can only be used for minor style effects. It'll just have a ceiling to it's application. Then the second one will let you do bigger things.

I don't know I still think this would work.
You'd just have to word it really really carefully so people understood exactly what counts as a "Minor effect"

I mean my going into a room and burning it down is a "minor crime" to me, to others that's "arson" and "evil".

So yeah, word it well and it could be good, word it wrong and it'll just create more confusion.

Of course. We'll have to have enough examples as well, but it should work.

Yeah, we're going to run with Kindulas' suggestion for palytesting at least. It solves a lot of the issues, maybe even all of them. Playtesting shall tell. If it doesn't work, we can always change it back.

Fireborn (1)
Characters of your race cannot be harmed by any naturally occurring heat, including natural fire and lava (though magical fire blasts and similar can still harm them in combat). Characters of your race can also safely create puffs of flame at will. These puffs of flame are identical to a torch in many respects and are capable of burning objects and lighting fires outside of combat just as a torch might. Puffs of flame are ordinary fire, they extinguish quickly without tinder.

Thunderborn (1)
Characters of your race cannot be harmed by any naturally occurring electricity (though magical lightning bolts and similar can still harm them in combat). Characters of your race can also safely spit small bolts of electricity at will. These bolts can be used for minor things such as starting a small fire if used on flammable material, powering an electrical machine, and similar actions that can be achieved with low voltage electricity.

Frostborn (1)
Characters of your race cannot be harmed by any natural cold, including the temperatures found in arctic climates (though magical ice bolts and similar can still harm them in combat). Characters of your race can also safely breathe puffs of frigid vapor at will. This vapor can be used to freeze small volumes of liquid, or to coat up to 5 square feet of a solid surface in ice. Anyone trying to walk over the affected area must make a DC 20 acrobatics check not to fall (the creatures attempting this suffer a -10 penalty if they were running or moving similarly quickly).

Acidborn (1)
Characters of your race cannot be harmed by naturally occurring acid (though magical acid blasts and similar can still harm them in combat). Characters of your race can also safely spit small globules of acid at will. Outside of combat, these globules are capable of dissolving an inch of a weak substance such as wood, rope or leather within a minute. On small objects of a stronger substance, such as an iron lock, the acid has the effect of the utility talent Weaken Substance a minute after application.

So magical lightning can't hurt you in combat if you get Thunderborn?

Ramsus wrote:Yeah ok. I was kinda derping there. Sorry Kindulas. It's just my default to you is set to hate because of cats. I mean. I'm allergic to cats. Thus I hate you. I mean. This makes sense. Now ignore it. Moving on.

Ok so, could you have the first in the tree still allow for modifying spells? I don't see that as part of the problem that needs to be dropped.

But... cats... ;-; I love them.

Anyway, with that idea and then people who want to do minor effects of their own imagination are still screwed.

Oh, unless you mean have the minor effect thing AND allow it to tweak your spells as what the first tier does. That could make sense, since flavor wise, if you have the skill to know the spell for the talent you're using AND the ability to improvise minor effects (rudimentary understanding of how spells are created), combined you could tweak your own spells. So I get that.

I would imagine that's what "naturally occurring" is meant to indicate.

I don't know what you're talking about. That edit has always been there. I swear.

Kindulas wrote:Oh, unless you mean have the minor effect thing AND allow it to tweak your spells as what the first tier does. That could make sense, since flavor wise, if you have the skill to know the spell for the talent you're using AND the ability to improvise minor effects (rudimentary understanding of how spells are created), combined you could tweak your own spells. So I get that.

That's what I meant, yeah.

Edit: Query: Does it need to specify modifying just your own spells? It'd be preferable if it wasn't specific like that but, if there's a good reason that's ok.

Ok, but then what does the second tier do?

I would imagine the second tier would be the same It's Witchcraft wording we've always has? Non-minor effects and all that jazz.

Bronymous wrote:Ok, but then what does the second tier do?

Everything

Then I still have no idea what it does. I thought all you could do with it was boost, replicate, or make shit up, and it sounds like all of that was covered in Tier 1.