Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Ramsus on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:05 am

So with these changes would my Weather Weaver destiny still be overpowered? Because it seems pretty in line with what we have now.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Appkes on Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:25 pm

The utility talent "True Sight" seems to have been carelessly edited at some point.

It costs a Magic Point,( which as StairC keeps stressing, is supposed to be super-powerful), and in return... You get five seconds of true sight. Seconds?!
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:32 am

AppkesGelatinousCubeBait wrote:The utility talent "True Sight" seems to have been carelessly edited at some point.

It costs a Magic Point,( which as StairC keeps stressing, is supposed to be super-powerful), and in return... You get five seconds of true sight. Seconds?!

Yep. 5 seconds of seeing through any illusion, no matter how powerful or if woven by Discord himself. Any doppleganger is revealed, any illusion is powerless.

True Sight is an extremely high level ability in most every game system. For the price of a utility talent, it's going to cost a bundle.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Ramsus on Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:39 am

Also it can be a complete waste of a magic point unless you have some way of detecting illusions. So yeah, basically you'll never use it because any time you know you should.... you now don't need to.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:41 am

Ramsus wrote:Also it can be a complete waste of a magic point unless you have some way of detecting illusions. So yeah, basically you'll never use it because any time you know you should.... you now don't need to.

This includes assumption that any check that determines that there is deceptive magic about automatically lets you dispel it.

If so, you have a very kind and merciful DM. Maybe he'll let you disarm traps the moment you detect them too. Wink
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Ramsus on Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:48 am

In that case it's an extremely specific tool. It's only useful if your GM throws at you illusions you need to dispel.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:51 am

Ramsus wrote:In that case it's an extremely specific tool. It's only useful if your GM throws at you illusions you need to dispel.

Yep. Which is why it's an ability most systems don't grant till you reach the end of the leveling process available at level 1. I could maybe see it being changed to 1/day, but it's fine either way.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Ramsus on Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:35 am

That might be better. There are a lot of things fighting for that one (or two or if you're very lucky 3) Magic Point(s) you have.


Last edited by Ramsus on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Paper Shadow on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:38 am

Although you are considering making it once a day instead, if you do keep it as a Magic Point costing talent, maybe it should grant true sight to you and all allies you can see? After all, even if you could see past the greatest illusion ever created, how would you go about telling everyone else something that contradicts their own eyes, especially if it is the first time they see you use it (as in they haven't had any previous evidence of you being able to see through illusions)?

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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:34 pm

Paper Shadow wrote:Although you are considering making it once a day instead, if you do keep it as a Magic Point costing talent, maybe it should grant true sight to you and all allies you can see? After all, even if you could see past the greatest illusion ever created, how would you go about telling everyone else something that contradicts their own eyes, especially if it is the first time they see you use it (as in they haven't had any previous evidence of you being able to see through illusions)?

That's a good point. Then again, players tend to trust other players... But not in all games. And this system is built to give every style of gaming group a cool tool.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Ramsus on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:34 pm

So I had a friend look over the system just to see if he liked it and he noticed the following issues.

Because of the wording, "target number" is abbreviated "DC", the wording there should change to make DC make sense.

When it mentions rounding, it fails to specify in which direction or if it's up to GM discretion. It should do one of those things.

Crushing Blow is extremely powerful. A more balanced version would be one of the two following:
Deal one damage die of the same type to target creature
or
Deal 1d12 damage to target creature, this cannot trigger your special move.

Specialist the way it is currently worded just reduces your minimum values to 3, without giving you the extra points to spend. It also needs a wording adjustment to clarify it means one value an not all of them, "any" is too vague. Then it needs to actually say it gives you 2 more points.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:46 pm

Ramsus wrote:So I had a friend look over the system just to see if he liked it and he noticed the following issues.

Because of the wording, "target number" is abbreviated "DC", the wording there should change to make DC make sense.

Not sure what you mean by this.

Ramsus wrote:When it mentions rounding, it fails to specify in which direction or if it's up to GM discretion. It should do one of those things.

Good catch. Where does this happen?

Ramsus wrote:Crushing Blow is extremely powerful. A more balanced version would be one of the two following:
Deal one damage die of the same type to target creature
or
Deal 1d12 damage to target creature, this cannot trigger your special move.

Most players are doing well if they activate their special move once per battle. Most combat is built to last about 5 rounds on average (longer sometimes, shorter other times). But let's assume a slick build trying to break the ability is managing to roll 2d8 every single turn. This has about a 25% chance to trigger your special move. This means that Crushing Blow adds a measly 1.625 damage to your attacks even when building specifically to break it (and rolling 2d8 every turn isn't easy, plus reduces your other options).

This is definitely not overpowered, and the fact you can trigger your special again with it is one of the things that keeps it competitive as well as really cool.

Ramsus wrote:Specialist the way it is currently worded just reduces your minimum values to 3, without giving you the extra points to spend. It also needs a wording adjustment to clarify it means one value an not all of them, "any" is too vague. Then it needs to actually say it gives you 2 more points.

It isn't supposed to give you more points. The idea is that you can further maximize your other attributes at the cost of others. This way you can have a 10 in two different attributes. If you want extra points, there's a trait for that too.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Ramsus on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:01 pm

I think you misunderstood about Specialist. As written you lose points. Because you have the minimum values + 8 points. Lowering your minimum doesn't give you points unless it actually says it does. I also don't think we should be encouraging people to have two stats at 3, one should be enough.

Edit: "the target number (the DC)"

I don't actually see anything about rounding at all. Maybe that's what he meant. In which case, all the more important that you put it in there somewhere.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  thematthew on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:34 pm

[+X] Daredevil’s Rush
Deal Xd8 damage to yourself. If you roll an 8 on one or more of the dice, you take only half damage from this power. X cannot be more than 10. If you suffer less than 4 damage in this way, you gain no pips from this talent.

[-5] Guardian Angel
For the rest of the battle or until you fall unconscious, enemies deal half damage to target ally.
Both of these indicate division, while not mentioning how it rounds in the all too common case of an odd number (eg. I rolled 8 and 1, do I take 4 damage or 5?)

Just like in D&D, a skill check is handled by a straight d20 roll, to which a modifier is added. If your result equals or exceeds the target number (the DC)...

While people with an understanding of D&D will not even think twice about this statement, this is using the abbreviation DC (Difficulty Class in D&D) to stand for Target Number which is inherently counter intuitive.

Crushing Blow:

Ok, so crushing blow is a weird one. Let's say you are using Derpy's Lightning (just because it's the giant laden pile of dice), and you have for combat talents Daredevil's Rush, Midnight's Blade, Supercharge, and Thunderstorm. So turn one you either Supercharge (gain three pips and roll a d8, possibly also a d10 thus 13% chance of one special move) OR you Daredevil's Rush gaining a bunch of pips and dealing Xd8 damage to yourself (with a X * 12.5% chance of a special move happening and a good enough chance of multiples happening) Now if any specials happen you deal 1d10 to a random enemy AND 1d12 to target creature or (if you get the d10 crit) 1d12 to a random creature, 1d10 to a random creature, 1d8 to a random creature, and 1d12 to target creature. And every single one of those dice can cause this to go on longer. That trait effectively turns one character into a walking bomb which could kill everything around it and that's not cool.

edit: Forgot this one

Specialist (1)
Characters of your race have a minimum of 3 in any attribute instead of 5 (10 is still the maximum).

Each attribute starts at 5 and you have 8 attribute points you can allocate between your attributes to raise them higher.

So am I crazy or should Specialist be rewritten a little so it actually does something?


Last edited by thefriendRamsusmentioned on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : brain fart)
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Xel Unknown on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:55 pm

My understanding is that Specialist lets you just take two points out of the base 5 to add to other points.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  thematthew on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:57 pm

I agree that is the intent, but what is important is that it isn't what it says.

It should read that you start with 3 in each stat and can allocate 16 points between them, or some such like that instead of allowing you to have a stat below the starting value of the stats.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Ramsus on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:58 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:My understanding is that Specialist lets you just take two points out of the base 5 to add to other points.

That's what it should do. With the current wording that is about the farthest thing from what it actually does.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Xel Unknown on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:01 pm

Well that was what I did with my Aqua The Water-Pony

But i see your point... Guess it should be reworded.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  thematthew on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:04 am

Another thing I noticed that should be addressed, before less-helpful/more munchkin minded people abuse it: it is never stated that ally does not refer to user explicitly except in a single example (which also has some typographical errors by the by) though it is obvious that in the case of targeting a single ally it is not supposed to hit the user as well.

That having been said what about in situations that say "all allies?" Do I get healed by my Healers grace d10/d12 special move? By virtue of not specifying the game places these borderline cases into a GM's nightmare state of special case ruling.

P.S. don't take my nitpicking as me trying to disassemble the game too much, having worked on multiple game systems myself I understand a lot of basic game theory and just want to pass what I have personally learned to you in the betterment of your game. As a system I actually like what has been done with the Pony Tales system, I just see room for polishing and I can't help but remark.

Blame Ramsus, he directed me here.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  AProcrastinatingWriter on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:10 am

Blaming Ramsus is typical operating procedure around here

Okay but seriously blaming me is typical NO I SAID WE'RE DOING IT SERIOUSLY NOW

Ahem.

Thank you for your input, friendthatRamsusmentioned. It is quite appreciated.


Last edited by AProcrastinatingWriter on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:11 am

thefriendRamsusmentioned wrote:P.S. don't take my nitpicking as me trying to disassemble the game

*hugs!*

Seriously, I *love* people that try to break the system or spot gray areas and poor wording. You're working as editors for us!

I'll address all these as soon as I can. Highly busy at the moment.


Last edited by Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  thematthew on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:42 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
thefriendRamsusmentioned wrote:P.S. don't take my nitpicking as me trying to disassemble the game

*hugs!*

Seriously, I *love* people that try to break the system or spot gray areas or poor wording. You're working as editors for us!

I'll address all these as soon as I can. Highly busy at the moment.

I cannot begin to describe how much I want to give you big manly love hugs right now.

That having been said, I'm probably going to be quiet for a little while until I've absorbed and assessed parts of the system I haven't worked out yet.

Also after I've sobered up, because I had to fix four typos in that brief text block.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Paper Shadow on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:35 am

The Stayin' Alive section of the How to Fight chapter doesn't state that players start with 30 Maximum Hit Points, just 30 Hit Points, which lead to this trail of thought:

Paper Shadow wrote:I'm not looking for permanent bonuses, it's just that I wish to use Syphon Life, but chances are, since I'm at 28 health (due to ongoing damage), I'll be healed over 30, and while the Player Handbook does state that "All first level characters start with 30 hit-points," it says that the character starts at 30HP, not 30 Max Hit Points, and since there is no mention of Max Hit Points(apart from the status bloodied, which doesn't give a specified value) and since HP represents one's ability to block, as opposed to actually getting injured, in theory you have infinite Max Hit Points (and, as a result, always bloodied) and you can be healed to infinity...
So, maybe reword it a bit so it says that first-level characters start with 30 Maximum Hit Points?

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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  SilentBelle on Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:06 am

thefriendRamsusmentioned wrote:Another thing I noticed that should be addressed, before less-helpful/more munchkin minded people abuse it: it is never stated that ally does not refer to user explicitly except in a single example (which also has some typographical errors by the by) though it is obvious that in the case of targeting a single ally it is not supposed to hit the user as well.

That having been said what about in situations that say "all allies?" Do I get healed by my Healers grace d10/d12 special move? By virtue of not specifying the game places these borderline cases into a GM's nightmare state of special case ruling.

P.S. don't take my nitpicking as me trying to disassemble the game too much, having worked on multiple game systems myself I understand a lot of basic game theory and just want to pass what I have personally learned to you in the betterment of your game. As a system I actually like what has been done with the Pony Tales system, I just see room for polishing and I can't help but remark.

Blame Ramsus, he directed me here.

Ah yes, that's a problem I've come across too, and I've had to house rule exceptions where they seemed necessary.

I'd like to suggest the inclusion of keywords and targets for talents. If the talent is an attack, then it would say 'attack' in it's keyword section (kind of like 4E). And if it causes a status effect give it the keyword 'effect'. And give healing the keyword 'healing'.
As for targets, there was an argument made for 'adjacent' that the target of the attack was 'one creature' so it could be used in conjunction with meditate. So I think that move should have - Target: 3 creatures (adjacent) or something like that. And Fireswath would be - Target: All creatures not considered your ally (I actually wonder if Fireswath should be able to have fewer targets when needed, such as: any number of creatures)

One last thing is that the wording in the combat talents (especially the attacks) should name have their targets listed not as 'enemies'. It creates a large amount of confusion when you dominate a creature, unless a clause were added "While a creature is dominated, it shares the same allies and enemies of the creature that dominated it."

Those are a few of the problems I've come across in my games. Thanks for reading. Also that HP thing that Paper Shadow mentioned above me, that needs clarification in the PHB.
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Re: Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:15 pm

HP edited to specify maximum at 30, text added to make it clear that you always round down unless otherwise specified, clarification of what an ally is (as well as creatures and enemies).

We're going to make a minor overhaul to the combat system too when we get time (likely over winter break I'll catch up on this backlog). We're adding minor actions to the combat system, which will allow us more flexibility in power design as well as item design, and plan to add more keywords to things. Having everything keyworded as attack or utility in combat alone has made life a lot easier.
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