8 Point Template for races

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:30 pm

Due to the presence of genetic engineering, the option of tinkering with the established races will *never* be removed. Thus you'll always be able to mess with those extra two points however you like. And all the other points as well. king
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Dusk Raven on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:18 pm

Figures this happens in the middle of me trying to make a character, heh.

Between this, the traits revamp, and the new conjuration talents, almost seems like you're coming up with a new "edition" eh?
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:20 pm

Hey the whole game isn't even in "full release" state yet. WE're more like in Minecraft Beta 1.8 level of being then anything else.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:32 pm

*laughs* Yeah. I'd call it, "Finally nearing First Edition". Sure, some of us have been playing the system weekly for almost a year now - but we're constantly fiddling with the ideas, expanding and improving them. We just love trying to make this system better.

Oh, and since you've all been so great in working on this thread - here's my current drafts of the races I've fiddled with so far. Be great to get your feedback on these while I work on the others. It's difficult to pick racial traits that both embody the flavor of the race in question and will equally appeal to every type of character. You can't always pull it off, but that's what genetic engineering is for - if you'd rather your Donkey still had Badass (spellchild) instead of what we ended up giving him.

Earth Pony
Cutie Mark
Characters of your race gain a cutie mark.

Friend in Deed
Whenever an earth pony successfully aid a creature on a skill check, it provides a +4 bonus instead of the usual +2 bonus.

Epic Pwny
Whenever an earth pony rolls a natural 19 using its cutie mark skill, it treats the result as if it had rolled a natural 20.

Pegasus
Cutie Mark
Characters of your race gain a cutie mark.

Flight
Every Pegasus can walk on clouds and fly with poor maneuverability (you take -10 penalty to precision and Brawn skills while flying). It takes practice to fly with grace and options for that appear in the utility talents.

Weather-Crafter
Preparation Time: 10 Minutes
You can to alter the atmospheric conditions in a 100-foot radius. For example, you can make a sunny day rain or a rainy day clear up within the area of effect. You can also attempt a more difficult feat, such as creating a localized hurricane or forcing thunderstrikes out of clouds to hit tall objects. These more difficult tasks require a Stunt check or Acrobatics check set at the DM’s discretion.

Quick Recovery - Interrupt [1/Day]
Trigger - You would fail a skill check.
Effect - Reroll the check with a +5 bonus.

Unicorn
Cutie Mark
Characters of your race gain a cutie mark.

Ponykinesis – At Will
Mentally pick up or manipulate an object within fifty feet that weighs 25 pounds or less. You can hold only one object at a time in this way.

Finishing School
Unicorns gain training in three skills at character creation rather than two.

Spellchild
During character creation, a character of your race can choose one of its Magic talents. Once per day, the character can use that talent without spending a Magic point.


Baby Dragon [Created by XandZero2 and Philadelphus]
Baby Dragons are rare in Equestria and Baby Dragons living outside their dragon families are even rarer. While their full-grown forms might be firebreathing monstrosities with scales that make iron look like putty - Baby Dragons are downright adorable as well an inspiring presence to any group they spend time with.

Fireborn
Baby dragons are immune to any heat below the level of an adult dragon's breath, including natural fire and lava. Baby dragons can also create puffs of flame at will. These puffs of flame are identical to a torch in many respects and are capable of burning objects and lighting fires outside of combat just as a torch might. Puffs of flame are ordinary fire, they extinguish quickly without tinder.

Spyrotechnics - At Will
Preparation Time - 6 Seconds
A baby dragon can turn a puff of its flame into either a burst of blinding fireworks (blinding all creatures that see it within 120-ft of the fire source) or a thick cloud of smoke (extending 20 feet in all directions from the fire source and lasting 18 seconds).

Dragonheart
A baby dragon gains a +5 bonus when attempting any skill check that has a DC of 30 or higher

Friendship is Dragons
Baby Dragons provide a +1 morale bonus to the skill checks of all allies the baby dragon can see.


Minotaur [Tirelessly created by Zarhorn]
Half bull and half man, Minotaurs are large and in charge. Often boisterous and imposing, Minotaurs are often excellent at motivating others and getting their way in tough situations. Try taking this bull by the horns sometime, you’ll probably make his day.

We’re Just Good At This Stuff
Minotaurs gain training in three skills at character creation rather than two.

Roar of the Minotaur - [1/Day]
Minotaurs can intimidate just about anything. Terrify a creature that can see you for the next minute. Creatures gain a +5 bonus to persuasion checks when attempting to intimidate a terrified creature.

Attack The Day! - [2/Day]
Trigger - You or one of your allies rolls a natural 20 on a skill check they do not have a cutie mark in.
Effect - Treat the result as though it was a cutie mark critical.

Show Them How You Rock! - Magic
You can tell the DM to treat the result of a d20 roll he just made as a natural 1. No rerolls are possible.


Donkey [Created by Masterweaver]
Similar to ponies in many ways, donkeys are more than meets the eye. Once they set their minds onto something, they won't rest until it's done, even if it takes a lifetime.

We’re Just Good At This Stuff
Donkeys gain training in three skills at character creation rather than two.

Stubborn as a Mule - Interrupt [3/Day]
Trigger - You fail a skill check.
Effect - Reroll the skill check.

Overachiever
Donkeys can have up to 12 points in a single attribute instead of 10.

Best of the Breed
Characters of your race gain an additional 2 attribute points at creation.


Buffalo [Created by Masterweaver]
Tall, strong, and imposing, a buffalo's shadow looms over nearly any that stand before it. Don't be fooled, however, as you will never find a truer friend than a native of southern Equestria.

We’re Very Good At This Stuff
Buffalo gain training in four skills at character creation rather than two.

Herd Mentality
Whenever an ally successfully aids a buffalo on a skill check, the buffalo gains an additional +1 bonus to the check.

Friend in Deed
Whenever a buffalo successfully aids a creature on a skill check, they provide a +4 bonus instead of the usual +2 bonus.

Thundering Hooves (2)
Buffalo gain “Yee-Haw” as an additional talent.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  A1C Bronymous on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:03 pm

Why do you persist in making Pegasi exceedingly more worthless? Earth Ponies get to be passively just good at stuff, Unicorns get the equivalent of 2 Magic Points, and Pegasi only get a measly +5 on a REROLL, and only ONCE a day.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:06 pm

Feel free to choose other things for your pegasus with genetic engineering. However, as Awesomeness is one of the most popular talents in the entire game and this is a significantly better version of that (though it only works on you) - in addition to the flight trait crowding in 2 utility talents for the cost of only 3 trait points with Weathercrafting as another trait at half the price you'd pay as a talent for it... They seem to be getting quite a lot of things at discount prices.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:45 pm

Alright folks, the first draft is up. Be great to hear your thoughts on any improvements that could be made.

Eight Point Races - First Draft
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Paper Shadow on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:53 pm

True Shifter - Magic
You may use this talent while you are in the form of another race due to the effect of A Thousand Faces. If you do, you may use all of that race’s racial traits as if you were a member of that race while you are in that race’s form (though if they’re a unique non-player race, you can’t access racial traits that would collectively be worth more than 8 trait-points). This effect ends at your next extended rest. You retain access to this racial trait even if you are currently in another race’s form.
Does this mean that you lose the disguise after an extended rest, or you lose the the racial traits unless you pay another magic point?

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:56 pm

Only the racial traits unless you pay another magic point.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Paper Shadow on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:07 pm

Did you change it to that because anyone who makes a Changeling Character with the Changeling's Tricky would basically make a regular character with regular talents, with the twist being that they are secretly a changeling, even though they will never return to changeling form or use any of the other changeling racials?

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:10 pm

Basically there was a typo in the old version that made it strictly better mechanically to make every character a changeling. Also, with the added racial traits - having to give up 5 points didn't completely dominate your racial traits like before (as it's no longer 5/6ths of your power but rather 5/8ths while giving you access to someone else's 8 points.)

Those changes meant that it got changed too. The good news is that now you can get peoples' racial traits while packing the at-will transformation into another image too.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:20 pm

Looking this over... It seems like the Pegasi getting the short end of the stick in the upgrades... I suggest they get the default 6 utility talent skillset. While I do gotta say their "awesomeness" version seems cool. I think it'll look better if they just got a basic blank sixth utility talent to choose.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:23 pm

Cool. What exactly are you suggesting, just turning their version of Awesomeness into, "gain an additional utility talent"? Or something else that I'm missing. I'm a mite confused on what specifically you're suggesting.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  tygerburningbright on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:28 pm

Many many things

1 I can not help but to agree with the thought that pegasi got well the shot end of the stick

2 Why was the take an extra talent for unicorns removed?
2a Why are unicorns the only one of the ponies with three trainings(must look up if it is still disallowed to take three trainings a a cutie mark)

3 Why did dragons get( can not recall the current name of the talent it was at one point little strong heart) and not Buffalo who had it orginally?

4 Why did Minotaurs get this
Roar of the Minotaur (2) - [1/Day]
Minotaurs can intimidate just about anything. Terrify a creature that can see you for the next minute. Creatures gain a +5 bonus to persuasion checks when attempting to intimidate a terrified creature.
While Griffons got
Half Lion (2) – 1/Day
A griffon can let out a mighty roar, terrifying target creature for one minute.
Which is a lot weaker and a older version.

5 Was going to say something about Donkeys but I have yet to see one ever to be used.

6 Why do buffalo get Yee-Haw for 2 when almost all other get a set talent racials are 1

7 Thunderbird (1) - 5/Day
Preparation Time: Instantaneous
Legends say that the hippogriff is a creature of thunder and lightning and can channel the strength of the crashing storm. A hippogriff begins the day with five charges of lightning. A hippogriff may expend one of its charges of lightning in order to give itself or a creature it can see a +1 bonus to its next athletics or acrobatics check.
Where did this come from and why do I hate it so much?

8 Fast As Lightning (2) - Magic
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. By spending a Magic Point, a Hippogriff can fly at a rate of a 100 miles-per-second for the next minute. However, few Hippogriffs can endure a full minute at this pace. Flying at this blistering speed is incredibly dangerous; a Hippogriff and any passenger it might be carrying takes 1d20 damage for each second spent flying at this speed.
I could have sworn this was nerfed in the speed

9 All Awesome (3) - [1/Day]
Trigger - You roll a natural 1.
Effect - You may treat the result as if you had rolled a natural 20.
How is this worth three? It is just this is whineing a bit more broad.

10 A Thousand Faces (3) - At Will
Preparation time: 30 Seconds
You change your appearance to that of any medium-sized humanoid creature that you have seen. It takes a perception check of DC 34+Your Level to see through the disguise. You may also choose to take on a unique form of another race, similar to that created by the Alter Ego talent, which is impossible to recognize as a disguise.
humanoid!
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:28 pm

Eyep that's just what I mean. As in this gendic racial:

Naturally Skilled (2)
Characters of your race gain an additional utility talent at character creation
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Nehiel Mori on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:39 pm

Dunno about the rest but...

tygerburningbright wrote:
7 Thunderbird (1) - 5/Day
Preparation Time: Instantaneous
Legends say that the hippogriff is a creature of thunder and lightning and can channel the strength of the crashing storm. A hippogriff begins the day with five charges of lightning. A hippogriff may expend one of its charges of lightning in order to give itself or a creature it can see a +1 bonus to its next athletics or acrobatics check.
Where did this come from and why do I hate it so much?

Its like The Unseen level 4 destiny feature, but not for stealth. I don't know why you hate it though.

Edit

tygerburningbright wrote:
8 Fast As Lightning (2) - Magic
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. By spending a Magic Point, a Hippogriff can fly at a rate of a 100 miles-per-second for the next minute. However, few Hippogriffs can endure a full minute at this pace. Flying at this blistering speed is incredibly dangerous; a Hippogriff and any passenger it might be carrying takes 1d20 damage for each second spent flying at this speed.
I could have sworn this was nerfed in the speed

Just checked and it didn't get changed from the Races of Equestria expansion. Its also better then the normal Genetic Engineering version.


Last edited by Nehiel Mori on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:43 pm

tygerburningbright wrote:Many many things

1 I can not help but to agree with the thought that pegasi got well the shot end of the stick

That's three people all saying the exact same thing with no counter-opinions. That's more than enough for me. We'll definitely find a way to improve this.

tygerburningbright wrote:2 Why was the take an extra talent for unicorns removed?
2a Why are unicorns the only one of the ponies with three trainings(must look up if it is still disallowed to take three trainings a a cutie mark)

Because Spellchild is such a great trait for unicorns and does a lot to make what was previously a somewhat bland race extra cool. They also make the most sense of the races to get extra magic points. So we really wanted them to have this, but with it there wasn't room for the 2-point-trait of getting an extra utility talent. With that in mind, we reduced it to an extra training instead.

tygerburningbright wrote:3 Why did dragons get( can not recall the current name of the talent it was at one point little strong heart) and not Buffalo who had it orginally?

Mainly flavor. Dragons needed an extra 2 points and giving them an expert skill didn't really make a lot of sense. Giving them lots of extra training seemed strange (why is a baby skilled in so many things?). It came down to a Roar (which we later gave to minotaurs) or Heart of Courage. Between the two, I liked Heart of Courage a bit better - as spike isn't exactly intimidating but definitely has a heroic heart at times. Also, the flavor of Dragonheart seemed completely on target, even moreso than it was for buffalo. Baby dragons have great power within them and can rise to the challenge. Buffalo it didn't make as much sense with.

tygerburningbright wrote:4 Why did Minotaurs get this
Roar of the Minotaur (2) - [1/Day]
Minotaurs can intimidate just about anything. Terrify a creature that can see you for the next minute. Creatures gain a +5 bonus to persuasion checks when attempting to intimidate a terrified creature.
While Griffons got
Half Lion (2) – 1/Day
A griffon can let out a mighty roar, terrifying target creature for one minute.
Which is a lot weaker and a older version.

That's what we call a typo in the business. It's supposed to be the same thing. Thanks, I'll fix it. jocolor

tygerburningbright wrote:5 Was going to say something about Donkeys but I have yet to see one ever to be used.

I used one once. He was fun, though that was back when they had Badass.

tygerburningbright wrote:6 Why do buffalo get Yee-Haw for 2 when almost all other get a set talent racials are 1

Some utility talents exist mainly for flavor and are not as mechanically powerful as other utility talents (such as ponykinesis and weathercrafting). Choosing more flavor over mechanical benefits are fine in utility talents, but some races really need these flavor abilities to work (like the pegasai's weathercrafting or unicorn's ponykinesis). With that in mind, we decided to price those talents at a very low price for the races to pick up - so you can get the proper flavor without playing underpowered characters.

tygerburningbright wrote:7 Thunderbird (1) - 5/Day
Preparation Time: Instantaneous
Legends say that the hippogriff is a creature of thunder and lightning and can channel the strength of the crashing storm. A hippogriff begins the day with five charges of lightning. A hippogriff may expend one of its charges of lightning in order to give itself or a creature it can see a +1 bonus to its next athletics or acrobatics check.
Where did this come from and why do I hate it so much?

It's a modification of an idea for hippogriffs back when they were still being created. As for why you hate it so much, I couldn't say. Wink

tygerburningbright wrote:8 Fast As Lightning (2) - Magic
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. By spending a Magic Point, a Hippogriff can fly at a rate of a 100 miles-per-second for the next minute. However, few Hippogriffs can endure a full minute at this pace. Flying at this blistering speed is incredibly dangerous; a Hippogriff and any passenger it might be carrying takes 1d20 damage for each second spent flying at this speed.
I could have sworn this was nerfed in the speed

It was actually. I'll fix it. Thanks.

tygerburningbright wrote:9 All Awesome (3) - [1/Day]
Trigger - You roll a natural 1.
Effect - You may treat the result as if you had rolled a natural 20.
How is this worth three?

Well...

tygerburningbright wrote: It is just this is whining

Which is worth 2 trait points as a utility talent.

tygerburningbright wrote:A bit more broad.

Eleven times more broad actually, as this one works for all your skills. We think that makes it at least 50% more useful than the 2 point version.

tygerburningbright wrote: 10 A Thousand Faces (3) - At Will
Preparation time: 30 Seconds
You change your appearance to that of any medium-sized humanoid creature that you have seen. It takes a perception check of DC 34+Your Level to see through the disguise. You may also choose to take on a unique form of another race, similar to that created by the Alter Ego talent, which is impossible to recognize as a disguise.
humanoid!

*laughs* Nice, thanks. Another typo. I'll fix it.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:44 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:Eyep that's just what I mean. As in this gendic racial:

Naturally Skilled (2)
Characters of your race gain an additional utility talent at character creation

Is that something flavorful enough for a pegasus though? It kind of works with Unicorns, as you can argue that they're better educated, but not sure how it makes sense with a pegasus.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:04 pm

Mmm.... Maybe just upgrade their flight up one more level? Then again they'll still look like they're getting the short end of the stick. But could go with the idea of Pegasi being just born to fly...
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:44 pm

Right. The issue isn't that they're underpowered right now (they're definitely not) it's that they don't *look* as awesome as the other races. We want to fix that.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:51 pm

Agreed... And I've offered all the suggestions I can think up off the top of my head... Odd... It was suggested they get what they were given yet now... They just don't look like they're getting the upgrades everyone else is getting.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Hayatecooper on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:13 am

Special Little Monster
You gain a cutie mark.

I love this.
So much.
Like you have no idea, thank you so much.
YAY! Actually I just like the entire of the Changeling upgrades, makes them better while keeping there flexibility and getting a CM is just nice a happy making touch.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:20 am

Hurray my version of the Earth Pony got in and nobody is objecting!

Uh... I actually really like Pegasi as is. Then again I guess that doesn't necessarily mean much as that's actually exactly the way I set them up. I think "bonus Utility" is a lot more dull.

As for Unicorn getting a third skill, I don't see the issue but, could always go to my suggestion of Specialist. *shrug*

I think Stubborn as a Mule is actually really nice.

I agree that if you're gonna give races a Utility straight out we should be fair and incentivize it by lowering it's cost by 1 point. Then you could give them only one extra skill and give Buffalo Best of the Breed.

I too find myself disliking Thunderbird as it just seems very bland and low strength.

I think True Shifter needs some clarification. Do you lose access to your other racial traits while under the True Shifter effect? Can you end it at will?

Special Little Monster (the name) made me laugh.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Jason Shadow on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:16 am

People (well, some of them, at any rate) seem to dislike Thunderbird as it currently stands. Hmm... Would it be weird to give hippogriffs the Thunderborn racial trait?
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  tygerburningbright on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:53 am

The thing is all the borns other than fire are getting nerfed... personally I can not see what is wrong with them. Other than shadow born which didn't make it in in the fist place.
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