Elements of Discord by Hayatecooper

Go down

Elements of Discord by Hayatecooper

Post  Hayatecooper on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:03 pm

Elements of Discord
Betrayal [Updated by Zarhon]
Keep Your Friends Close - Magic
Pick two non-ally creatures that are out of combat and considered allies/non hostile between each other. For 15 minutes, they treat each other as extremely distrustful of each other, ignoring non-immediate threats, even willing to attack each other if properly provoked/convinced.

Mockery
Tons of Fun - Magic
Roll a d100. Activate the corresponding effect on the Mockery effect table. (This table acts the same as the Tons of Fun, but it has more target-able destructive and upsetting effects.)

Greed - Magic
It's uncontrollable!
Take the base modifiers an ally has in a skill (For example 20 in perception) and apply it to your next roll in that skill. The next two times you roll that skill, take a -3 penalty due to greed withdrawal or whatever flavor you so choose.

Deceit
Glibness - Magic
Gain a +15 bonus to the next lie you tell a target. If you succeed on your roll Any lies you tell for the next 10 minutes after will automatically be believed by anyone. However if you fail the check, you take no negative Penalties to the rolls.

Cruelty
Insult To Injury - Magic
Choose a target creature and target ally. Both targets will catastrophically fail their next skill check, as though rolling the opposite of a cutie mark critical success - a cutie mark critical failure. You must be able to see the targets you choose. The failure cannot be prevented or altered by any means, and may be triggered randomly/automatically if the player/ally makes no skill checks for 30 minutes.

Anti-Magic
Magic makes cheating easy - Magic
Spend a Magic point to take a Utility talent that you don't meet the per-requisite for. During the next 10 minutes you may use that talent as those you met the full requirement for that UTs.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
My versions of the Elements of Discord. Where I was going with this is, I wanted something that was kind of similar to what we have but would work for any creature not trying to be a pretty pure snowflake and wants to cause just that tiny touch of Mayhem or Chaos if you will.

My biggest concerns of the six are probably:
1. Deceit cause it may be a little too situational but then again if your going to play a liar it shouldn't be that hard to come up with a use for it.

2. Cruelty; cause it seems a little combative but then again so does Maddening Mockery.


My favorites have to be however:

1. Broken Magic.
Just the idea you can make two creature fight at your command amuses me to no end and could actually be really viable if your being chased by a mob.

2. Greed.
Now that Yawnmon helped me change it so it wasn't useless, then not op. Which was nice so thanks for that, also getting Bonus's to stuff is always fun.

Anyway? Ideas? Thoughts?
Suggestions welcome.
And remember, Chaos is your king.

Edit list!
Changed, actually most stuff. It's fairly different now. Most changes due to Zarhon's comments.


Last edited by Hayatecooper on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Hayatecooper
Equestrian Honor Guard
Equestrian Honor Guard

Gender : Male
Posts : 549
Join date : 2012-08-03
Age : 25
Location : Brisbane Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Elements of Discord by Hayatecooper

Post  Zarhon on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:16 am

I think the Broken Magic can be made a bit more useful as such, if we take it as an "anti-talent":

Broken Magic
Toxic Friend - Magic
Until the end of the day, you may perform a willing ally's magic-point costing utility once, without paying its cost, and subsequently, by paying its cost. The ally in question, however, cannot use the chosen ability for the rest of the day. This ability has no range limits, but the ally must be conscious and willing.

Greed seems a bit self-defeating, as the -3 penalty is likely to just negate it's benefit (keep in mind this costs a magic point, which is a +10 to skill checks!). It probably needs to be an "interrupt effect" as well, to make it a bit more "on demand" useable. Here's an alternate idea, though...

Greed - Magic
All Friends Are Equal
Freely transfer the magic points from yourself or willing allies to other willing allies or yourself. This ability has no range limits, but requires the targets to be conscious and willing.

Cruelty seems to do the same thing as maddening mockery. Maybe re-flavor it like this?

Cruelty
Insult To Injury - Magic
Choose a target creature and target willing ally, or yourself. Both targets will catastrophically fail their next skill check, as though rolling the opposite of a cutie mark critical success - a cutie mark critical failure. You must be able to see the targets you choose. The failure cannot be prevented or altered by any means, and may be triggered randomly/automatically if the player/ally makes no skill checks for 30 minutes.

Deceit looks good mechanically, but doesn't seem all that attractive or powerful, at least for element standards. Maybe add an extra benefit? Like:

Deceit
Glibness - Magic
Gain a +15 bonus to the next lie you tell a target. The roll is treated as a critical success on a natural 1, 2, or 3, or a cutie mark critical on a natural 20.

Betrayal seems too situational, and is frankly weaker than the actual element of loyalty. However, I think that the Broken Magic's effect of ruining friendship is perfect for it (who better to sow betrayal/distrust and hostility, after all?):
Broken Magic
Keep Your Friends Close - Magic
Pick two non-ally creatures that are out of combat and considered allies/non hostile between each other. For 15 minutes, they treat each other as extremely distrustful of each other, ignoring non-immediate threats, even willing to attack each other if properly provoked/convinced.

Mockery seems fine. jocolor
avatar
Zarhon
Smile Smile Smile
Smile Smile Smile

Gender : Male
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Elements of Discord by Hayatecooper

Post  Hayatecooper on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:54 am

Thanks for your suggestions, however I have some issues with your revisions.

Broken magic:

I think the Broken Magic can be made a bit more useful as such, if we take it as an "anti-talent":
Broken Magic
Toxic Friend - Magic
Until the end of the day, you may perform a willing ally's magic-point costing utility once, without paying its cost, and subsequently, by paying its cost. The ally in question, however, cannot use the chosen ability for the rest of the day. This ability has no range limits, but the ally must be conscious and willing.

I'm not sure how this counts as more useful seeing as you are basically asking your team-mate to give up a utility talent for the rest of the day. This, though Chaotic and I do approve of that, will probably promote a lack of use of this power. Why should they give it to you when they can do it better themselves? I do however like changing my version of Magic to betrayal so I might re-write this one maybe.

Anti-Magic
Magic makes cheating easy - Magic
Spend a Magic point to take a Utility talent that you don't meet the per-requisite for. During the next 10 minutes you may use that talent as those you met the full requirement for that UTs.

I'll keep looking at it.

Greed:


Greed - Magic
All Friends Are Equal
Freely transfer the magic points from yourself or willing allies to other willing allies or yourself. This ability has no range limits, but requires the targets to be conscious and willing.

Greed seems a bit self-defeating, as the -3 penalty is likely to just negate it's benefit (keep in mind this costs a magic point, which is a +10 to skill checks!). It probably needs to be an "interrupt effect" as well, to make it a bit more "on demand" useable. Here's an alternate idea, though...

Yeah, no sorry. I don't in anyway see how this is "Greedy Behavior." This is generosity in a nutshell, you are giving something to someone else and you can only take something if someone else is willing to be generous enough to give it too you. And who is seriously going to do that most of the time when they have their own element/MP UTs to be spending it on.

To your second point.
I probably didn't make a great job of explaining(not for the last time) and that's why the confusion. Basically with my version of Greed you take the base skill amount an ally has (For example Silvers 18 in Persuasion) and apply it to your next skill, the -3 penalty is due to the fact you can get a potential +20 or higher in some skills and it needs some form of draw back, otherwise why you would take anything else? It would be a min-maxes dream.

Cruelty:e538:

Cruelty
Insult To Injury - Magic
Choose a target creature and target willing ally, or yourself. Both targets will catastrophically fail their next skill check, as though rolling the opposite of a cutie mark critical success - a cutie mark critical failure. You must be able to see the targets you choose. The failure cannot be prevented or altered by any means, and may be triggered randomly/automatically if the player/ally makes no skill checks for 30 minutes.

Actually I like this, It's a lot better then what I had and def more cruel. I mean a MP version of Jinx? What's not to love! Though I would suggest changing it to "ally" instead of willing ally. Otherwise when are you ever going to get a chance to use it?

Spoiler:
Deceit
Glibness - Magic
Gain a +15 bonus to the next lie you tell a target. The roll is treated as a critical success on a natural 1, 2, or 3, or a cutie mark critical on a natural 20.

You're defiantly right about it needed more then a flat +15. My suggestion would be this.
Deceit
Glibness - Magic
Gain a +15 bonus to the next lie you tell a target. If you succeed on your roll Any lies you tell for the next 10 minutes after will automatically be believed by anyone. However if you fail the check, you take no negative Penalties to the rolls.

[spoiler = The new Betrayal]
Broken Magic
Keep Your Friends Close - Magic
Pick two non-ally creatures that are out of combat and considered allies/non hostile between each other. For 15 minutes, they treat each other as extremely distrustful of each other, ignoring non-immediate threats, even willing to attack each other if properly provoked/convinced.

This I like. This I like a lot actually, this is a great idea thanks for that. Will change.

And thanks for liking Mockery. I do like a TOFT that is more detrimental to everything.

Thanks for the ideas and I'll make the changes to the original thread now.
avatar
Hayatecooper
Equestrian Honor Guard
Equestrian Honor Guard

Gender : Male
Posts : 549
Join date : 2012-08-03
Age : 25
Location : Brisbane Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Elements of Discord by Hayatecooper

Post  Zarhon on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:44 am

Hayatecooper wrote:I'm not sure how this counts as more useful seeing as you are basically asking your team-mate to give up a utility talent for the rest of the day. This, though Chaotic and I do approve of that, will probably promote a lack of use of this power. Why should they give it to you when they can do it better themselves? I do however like changing my version of Magic to betrayal so I might re-write this one maybe.


Well, the idea is that it lets you use the magic point ability after the ally in question has spent their magic point (and thus, can no longer use it, unless they have derp or get another through special means, or can prevent paying for it). That way, you can ensure that the talent in question can get used when the player owning it cannot, or you can have two uses of the same thing.

For instance, you can use "the stare" to double it's effect, which is normally impossible due to one-per-player reaction/interrupt trigger rules.

Hayatecooper wrote:Yeah, no sorry. I don't in anyway see how this is "Greedy Behavior." This is generosity in a nutshell, you are giving something to someone else and you can only take something if someone else is willing to be generous enough to give it too you. And who is seriously going to do that most of the time when they have their own element/MP UTs to be spending it on.

Yeah, problem is, does one really want to allow players the ability to grief each other, with no drawbacks or ways to prevent it (other than DM intervention or initial lack of a magic point), by using this talent?

The greed aspect is the ability to hoard up to 5-6 points onto a single character at once (its a bit like "dragon greed", when Spike started asking for presents and things went downhill from there), which can lead to truly insane use of abilities.

Heck, a truly malicious player can combine this ability with the "Jinx" utility to cause everything grief. It's the kind of thing DMs would outright ban from the start of campaigns.

Hayatecooper wrote:To your second point.
I probably didn't make a great job of explaining(not for the last time) and that's why the confusion. Basically with my version of Greed you take the base skill amount an ally has (For example Silvers 18 in Persuasion) and apply it to your next skill, the -3 penalty is due to the fact you can get a potential +20 or higher in some skills and it needs some form of draw back, otherwise why you would take anything else? It would be a min-maxes dream.

This kinda relies on your teammates having min-maxed specific skills in return. The only time you actually benefit from this is when used on an ally with at least 14 or higher in any given skill, otherwise you're better off spending a magic point (and not having a penalty afterwards).

Although, I'm curious, is the "base value" actually added, in addition to your own (so, having 10 in persuasion, then using it on another player with 15 totals up to a +25 bonus, not counting any extras you might have from situation/FK/other utility uses)? In that case, the skill is outright broken in almost any circumstance, and the -3 penalty is laughable.

Hayatecooper wrote:Actually I like this, It's a lot better then what I had and def more cruel. I mean a MP version of Jinx? What's not to love! Though I would suggest changing it to "ally" instead of willing ally. Otherwise when are you ever going to get a chance to use it?

You can always use yourself as the "drawback target", so there's no qualms on when you can use it (surely you've got allies to assist you?).

And if griefing is the plan, you're free to use an ally as the "initial" target, then yourself (or another willing ally, if such exist) to take the drawback. Twisted Evil

Although, isn't Jinx already a MP ability?

Hayatecooper wrote:You're defiantly right about it needed more then a flat +15. My suggestion would be this.
Deceit
Glibness - Magic
Gain a +15 bonus to the next lie you tell a target. If you succeed on your roll Any lies you tell for the next 10 minutes after will automatically be believed by anyone. However if you fail the check, you take no negative Penalties to the rolls.

Aye, that sounds pretty good.
avatar
Zarhon
Smile Smile Smile
Smile Smile Smile

Gender : Male
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Elements of Discord by Hayatecooper

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum