Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

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Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:55 pm

WORK IN PROGRESS

Something that I've had ideas for ever since I've seen the talent specialization module. However, I have finally gotten around to make this module, as well as explaining my reasoning, and of course how it all works/ the upgrades offered

The module can be found here

WARNING. THE UPGRADES OFFERED BY THIS MODULE ARE MOST LIKELY NOT BALANCED IN REGARDS TO OTHER COMBAT. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Z2 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:02 pm

I approve of this idea, but MAN is it ever going to take a lot of work. I might try to come up with something for a few of the talents later.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Z2 wrote:I approve of this idea, but MAN is it ever going to take a lot of work. I might try to come up with something for a few of the talents later.

Tell me about it... I've been working at it for hours, but I've only covered 48 combat talents...

And if I believe correctly, there is at least 200, right?
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:50 pm

I personally... Don't see teh point in this idea. I've found the combat system great as is. And by no means in need of any "upgrades as you level" other then the traits and items, that does enough for me.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:I personally... Don't see teh point in this idea. I've found the combat system great as is. And by no means in need of any "upgrades as you level" other then the traits and items, that does enough for me.

If that's your opinion, that's your opinion. Personally, I feel that the combat-upgrades as they aren't don't make you feel like your character is getting any more powerful... okay, there's the entire flavour thing about how to make your characters more powerful, but that's just flavour, the stats are still the same with not much difference...
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:49 pm

And I ask, why should there be such changes? I mean this system is built to have ZERO base HP upgrades. So um... Still not sure the point to this. Seems like just wanting to add unneeded complexity.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:51 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:And I ask, why should there be such changes? I mean this system is built to have ZERO base HP upgrades. So um... Still not sure the point to this. Seems like just wanting to add unneeded complexity.

Your health might not change, but the opponent's health can.

And the point is to give the characters a more organic feeling of growth in combat prowers. Doubly so if the second method of earning upgrade points is used.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:55 pm

I think upgrading the combat talents would definitely feel like you were increasing in power. That would be awesome.

However, there's two reasons we didn't do this from the start. It definitely came up as an idea, but we ultimately decided to avoid the concept for the following reasons.

1) It would require making a lot more content for combat talents.

2) It would make combat talents and traits and weapons much harder to balance.

3) It would make monsters much harder to balance.

4) It is indeed more complicated. Any added complexity to the system needs to provide *such* a powerful addition of awesome that it blasts away all the hassle that comes along with it. By making everything 15% less complicated, the whole system feels streamlined and elegant as a result.


Those were our four reasons at least.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:16 pm

Yeah... some of those reasons I kinda knew already. Its why I said it was optional... and added in a warning that the document & upgrades it offers might not be balanced.

Who knows through? Maybe once Ponytales has expanded more, with the process of adding new stuff becoming streamlined and efficient... well, more so. It might be possible to look back on some disgarded ideas to be used again... and this document might be able to help.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:18 pm

Frankly, I don't see such upgrades getting used at levels 1-10.

However, if we ever do a level expansion... Something like this might be perfect.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:20 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Frankly, I don't see such upgrades getting used at levels 1-10.

However, if we ever do a level expansion... Something like this might be perfect.


Well, that's better then nothing. In fact, if a level expansion does happen... boy would I be excited to help with it! (If I can do so)

And even then, no one can see the future, so anything could happen!

Through I bet you have a few things that you are currently working on...
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:22 pm

A fair few yes. Like a Monster Manual. =)

I know some people are already brainstorming epic level ideas (level 11-20 in this system). You might want to tell them about the idea for upgrading combat talents come those levels. I like the basic concept.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:24 pm

A Monster Manual huh? Interesting...

... Probably shouldn't ask, but is the Official Review idea I mentioned one of the things on the agenda? (No matter how far down it is)

Still, making this purely an epic-level upgrade system... that might actually work very well. I mean, in Epic Levels you ARE meant to get a LOT more powerful than before right? So the brokeness won't be as much as a concern as before... I think.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:25 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:A Monster Manual huh? Interesting...

... Probably shouldn't ask, but is the Official Review idea I mentioned one of the things on the agenda? (No matter how far down it is)

Still, making this purely an epic-level upgrade system... that might actually work very well. I mean, in Epic Levels you ARE meant to get a LOT more powerful than before right? So the brokeness won't be as much as a concern as before... I think.

Yes, definitely still on the agenda. Just very far down - we want to complete the system first then work on the idea of official reviewers.

As for the broken aspect - the talents would still need to be balanced against one another. But they could be much more powerful.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:27 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Yes, definitely still on the agenda. Just very far down - we want to complete the system first then work on the idea of official reviewers.

So, we are still in beta?

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:As for the broken aspect - the talents would still need to be balanced against one another. But they could be much more powerful.

Point accepted.
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:31 pm

Yes, definitely still in beta. To a degree we always will be, because I want to actively involve everyone in the system and respond the moment anything seems broken, unbalanced or unfun. =)

But yes, as we don't have a complete system yet (items, boons and the monster manual still need expansions, revamps or just plain core design - particularly the monster manual as it doesn't exist yet). When we do, we can start working on the official reviewer idea. Hard to build a review process before all the aspects we'll need to review exist.

And... Sadly I need to sign off for now. I've got a game tonight and am playtesting a bunch of insane new mechanics in my vicious dungeon. Still need to finish polishing the design though and only have 4.5 hours to finish. So unless I need to crawl back on and issue a warning for continuing to squabble in the ask a question thread, I'll be off for a while. Wink
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Re: Pratice Makes Perfect - A Combat Talent upgrade module.

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:40 pm

I see... hmmm I see what you mean about boons, items & monsters needing a revamp/expansion.

And yeah, I see what you mean about always being in beta... through once the official reviewer idea is complete or ready to be made, I think we'll be in 'Delta' (constantly expanding, but further along then beta... nicked the use of the term from Atrix Entertainment XD)

Part from that, see you later!
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