Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Paper Shadow on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:52 pm

ZamuelNow wrote:I see the consequences of breaking a Pinkie Promise but um...what are the benefits for actually following it?
You don't die a horrible, horrible death?

The use of it is to force NPCs to be loyal to you...

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  tygerburningbright on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:55 pm

For the most part the benefit is in more or less forcing a NCP to follow their word or getting another player to keep their word and not stab someone in the back. That being said I personally have only seen the talent being used once back at the very start of the system...
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  ZamuelNow on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:12 pm

As a form of protection I can see the uses but I'm trying to figure out why an NPC (and especially a villainous player) would agree to it at all unless they didn't realize that's what was going on. I wonder if it would hurt things if all agreeing parties were subject to a +1 morale boost while active. This would give reason for wanting to enter the agreement and possibly see use among non antagonistic players.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Ramsus on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:15 pm

Well, we just used it in the Khan game. Admittedly it was a "Pinkie Promise or Death" choice.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  ZamuelNow on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:42 am

With the Very Best Friend destiny, does Best Friends Forever require the coin flip from Instant Friends or can it be used standalone? In a weird followup, if it does require the coin flip and it fails, can you use the effects of Best Friends Forever to make the failure permanent?
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:13 am

ZamuelNow wrote:I see the consequences of breaking a Pinkie Promise but um...what are the benefits for actually following it?

There are no benefits from following it - but the talent is very useful because it opens new options to the players. For example, one group I run used the talent in a critical moment just last session (barely 26 hours ago). They used it to get a vengeful organization to promise to never, ever go after them again if the players agreed to do something for the organization. Without a binding oath like pinkie promise - such a deal would have been unthinkable (both sides would assume the others would just betray their oath the moment they got a chance to). Here they can't betray their oath - allowing players to more comfortably negotiate with other parties. The NPCs agreed to the oath because they did not intend to break it and they wanted the party to perform the service in question for them.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Zarhon on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:06 am

"Robes of the Reaper" combat questions:

- What determines "lowest hp"? Maximum, or current hp? If there is an enemy with a lot of hp, and injured, and another with max/full hp, but its total less than the injured one, which one counts for the bonus?

- If there are multiple creatures with the same "lowest" hp, does the bonus apply to all such creatures, automatically? Does the player have to choose which creature to apply the bonus to, or have to "know" which one of them has the lowest hp? Does the DM, when asked to determine lowest hp, say that all the creatures have the same lowest hp, or does he just randomly name only one of them?

- Does the damage bonus work / is auto-applied if the player hits an enemy with the lowest hp, without knowing it beforehand, or using their free action to determine it as such, or can it apply to a creature after it is no longer the lowest hp enemy (e.g. if in the middle of a combo of attacks it stops being such)?
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  LoganAura on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:25 am

Zarhon wrote:"Robes of the Reaper" combat questions:

- What determines "lowest hp"? Maximum, or current hp? If there is an enemy with a lot of hp, and injured, and another with max/full hp, but its total less than the injured one, which one counts for the bonus?

- If there are multiple creatures with the same "lowest" hp, does the bonus apply to all such creatures, automatically? Does the player have to choose which creature to apply the bonus to, or have to "know" which one of them has the lowest hp? Does the DM, when asked to determine lowest hp, say that all the creatures have the same lowest hp, or does he just randomly name only one of them?

- Does the damage bonus work / is auto-applied if the player hits an enemy with the lowest hp, without knowing it beforehand, or using their free action to determine it as such, or can it apply to a creature after it is no longer the lowest hp enemy (e.g. if in the middle of a combo of attacks it stops being such)?
1.) Lowest current HP. So say there was an enemy with 15/40 HP, and an enemy with 10/50, it would be the latter enemy.
2.) The DM marks which enemy has the lowest hp, or they should.
3.) Auto-applied, and I'm not sure about the combo-of-attacks.

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Zarhon on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:06 pm

LoganAura wrote:1.) Lowest current HP. So say there was an enemy with 15/40 HP, and an enemy with 10/50, it would be the latter enemy.
2.) The DM marks which enemy has the lowest hp, or they should.
3.) Auto-applied, and I'm not sure about the combo-of-attacks.

1) And if an enemy has 20/20 hp, and another has 21/120 hp?
2) If there are 3 enemies with the same hp e.g. 20/30hp, 20/30hp, 20/30hp? Mark all, or just one of the three?

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  LoganAura on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:10 pm

Zarhon wrote:
LoganAura wrote:1.) Lowest current HP. So say there was an enemy with 15/40 HP, and an enemy with 10/50, it would be the latter enemy.
2.) The DM marks which enemy has the lowest hp, or they should.
3.) Auto-applied, and I'm not sure about the combo-of-attacks.

1) And if an enemy has 20/20 hp, and another has 21/120 hp?
2) If there are 3 enemies with the same hp e.g. 20/30hp, 20/30hp, 20/30hp? Mark all, or just one of the three?


1.) The 20 hp is lower hp, so it still counts as lowest. It's not percentage, it's lowest hp period.
2.) All count as lowest as far as I know.

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Paper Shadow on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:53 pm

Moving a discussion to a different thread like a beginner...

Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Paper Shadow wrote:To be fair, you could just consider your Morph as a Super Badass True Shifter...

You don't get to change appearance with Morph... as far as I can tell.
Well, you can still take A Thousand Faces with Morph. And even if you don't take that, you can take Alter Ego, since you get to pick a new disguise every time you pick it...

I think...

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:58 pm

Yeah its true that the changeling appearance changing racial can be used with Morph...

But what if you only take the lvl 7 destiny function through Self-Discovery? If your a true-shifter, why can't you use your evolved form when transformed?
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Paper Shadow on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:01 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:Yeah its true that the changeling appearance changing racial can be used with Morph...

But what if you only take the lvl 7 destiny function through Self-Discovery? If your a true-shifter, why can't you use your evolved form when transformed?
Well, you can. Remember, True Shifter was changed so you need A Thousand Faces first. That means you can just transform with A Thousand Faces...

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:02 pm

Paper Shadow wrote:
Well, you can. Remember, True Shifter was changed so you need A Thousand Faces first. That means you can just transform with A Thousand Faces...

But that doesn't allow the true-shifter's alternative forms to have the extra 3 racial points!!!!

IS NO ONE LISTENING TO ME?!!!!
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Paper Shadow on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:06 pm

Of course it doesn't. That's the point of the evolution destiny. You become the ultimate life form. If you copy the racial traits of a lesser being, why would you be better than them? Why would you even want to do that anyway? You have become a God!

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:09 pm

That's basically it. True Shifter allows you to become another race. Evolution improves your own race.

If you suddenly developed wings as a human, then transform into a spider... The spider form wouldn't have wings.

So it doesn't fit flavor-wise... And It would make true-shifter overpowered due to that combo if it did work that way.

So that's why it doesn't work that way. Both flavor reasons and mechanical reasons.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:17 pm

Flavour wise, it does work. A true-shifter doesn't just imitate other species, but adapt and change themselves, completely and utterly shifting, right down to DNA. When they evolve, their evolutionary abilities should also be able to shift as well. Because they are completely and utterly transforming.

Mechanically? Come on. This is only one specific build I'm talking about, and your already level 10.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Ramsus on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:26 pm

You can always ask your GM to make an exception for you but, there's no point in changing a balanced mechanic to a potentially unbalanced one for the sake of one potential build that wants something it really probably shouldn't be able to do.

Edit: Also the reason nobody was "answering your question" a lot there was because you were in fact not asking the question you seemed to think you were.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:40 pm

I wasn't asking a question. Seriously.

I was making a complaint.

And really. Having the true-shifter's be able to use extra racial points - for example, my build - won't break the game in anyway, shape or form.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Paper Shadow on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:37 pm

The point is that other races simply don't have extra racial points. True-Shifter states that "you may use all of that race’s racial traits as if you were a member of that race while you are in that race’s form". And that's what you get. Nothing more, nothing less...

But instead of us arguing why it's a silly idea, why don't you tell us why it isn't? Gameplay-wise, why should one be able to use True-Shifter to change into a different race and gain more points than the race they changed into? What would the extra points go into?

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  LoganAura on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:44 pm

Why it wouldn't work, an Alt-script.

Player 1: Aw sweet, I love that evolution destiny! I want to take it with my zebra! Accidents with potions and stuff
Player 2: But zebras don't get the Changeling's Trickery!
Player 1: Excuse me?
Player 3: Yeah, dude if you want that destiny, you've gotta have Changeling's Trickery. No matter what race, you can change your whole thing for a magic point.
Player 1: ... But Morph does that during an extended rest.

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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Videocrazy on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:46 pm

Just want to make sure I've got this right.
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:It doesn't. Unless I misunderstand the question. The fact that it is still limited to 8 points is what keeps it fair.

I'm specifically referring to this line:
though you lose access to any other racial traits you possess.

If this is the case, would this mean that True Shifter effectively reduces the number of RP you have as long as it's active? ((I have no problem if that's the case, just want to be sure.))
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:03 pm

Seriously guys. This isn't hard to understand. I'm pointing out that the current wording of the True-shifter's is restricting a very small, very limited, but still viable build that can easily be fixed.

I mean, the Evolution Destiny is the only thing that gives you extra racial points, so saying that you can only use the default 8, plus any from utility talents or destinies, won't break the game and won't be difficult in any way. Shape. Or. Form. Because as I pointed out, there is only ONE build that gives you the extra racial points without getting morph, and that build gives you LESS points LATER and it costs a MAGIC POINT to keep those racial talents (or at least, to change them)
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Nehiel Mori on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:10 pm

No comment on the current debate for now. Just want to answer something else I noticed.

The level 4 ability, Morph, will allow you to change your appearance when you morph. The idea is your morphing into a new race. Why would that not allow you to change.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Post  Paper Shadow on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:14 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:Seriously guys. This isn't hard to understand. I'm pointing out that the current wording of the True-shifter's is restricting a very small, very limited, but still viable build that can easily be fixed.

I mean, the Evolution Destiny is the only thing that gives you extra racial points, so saying that you can only use the default 8, plus any from utility talents or destinies, won't break the game and won't be difficult in any way. Shape. Or. Form. Because as I pointed out, there is only ONE build that gives you the extra racial points without getting morph, and that build gives you LESS points LATER and it costs a MAGIC POINT to keep those racial talents (or at least, to change them)
You haven't answered my question. Where does the three extra points go?

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