Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

kajisora Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:25 am

I'll see if I can come up with some utilities, racials and/or destinies that use the more underrepresented skills (history, mechanics, maybe streetwise and endurance), instead of just applying boosts.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:36 pm

That would be an awesome fix - because we try to stay away from just blanket skill boosts. Skill boosts make it harder for DMs to set DCs (since there's a wider range of possible skill modifiers) and they're both highly powerful and kinda boring - an unsettling combination that can lead to optimizers taking talents that are less inherently interesting but that they believe are more powerful.

That said, I'm also a fan right now of 'complexity-dumps'. At higher levels, there's a lot of utility talents to keep track of and it can get confusing. Having some talents that don't give you even more stuff (different talents) to keep track of, such as by improving existing talents or skills (extra uses per day, higher skill boosts, decreasing prep times etc.) is great for the system.

Ramsus Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:34 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:because we try to stay away from just blanket skill boosts. Skill boosts make it harder for DMs to set DCs (since there's a wider range of possible skill modifiers) and they're both highly powerful and kinda boring - an unsettling combination that can lead to optimizers taking talents that are less inherently interesting but that they believe are more powerful.

Then you really should remove the current versions of Eagle Eye, Sky's the Limit, and probably Lightning Rod.

On a separate (but related) note, I can understand if you guys don't want to include the rest of my stuff but, I don't see any reason for not including the following two new utilities and the proposed change to The Stare.

The Stare – Magic Interrupt
Trigger – You or an ally you can see makes a Horse-Sense check.
Effect – After seeing the result of the roll, you can choose to add a +20 bonus to the check.

Frozen Time – Magic Interrupt
Trigger – You or an ally you can see makes a Precision check.
Effect – After seeing the result of the roll, you can choose to add a +20 bonus to the check.

Book Fort...e – Magic Interrupt
Trigger – You or an ally you can see makes a Knowledge check.
Effect – After seeing the result of the roll, you can choose to add a +20 bonus to the check.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:39 pm

We might well remove those things *nods*.

As for the Stare... Well, it's already one of the most powerful talents around. I don't think making it even more powerful is a good idea. Making versions for other skills could be a good idea - but it makes skill variance even bigger for DMs. Not as big a deal though - since Magic Points are kinda 'anything goes'.

Xel Unknown Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:57 pm

So I take you dislike the idea of upgrading the Stare into a "sense" verison of Yee-Haw, which is kinda understandable... But what about the Knowledge and Precision versions that Ramsus suggests? Also if you all aren't willing to upgrade The stare to match the others, why not make another +20 magic point booster for Perception and Streetwise?

I think the system is quite lacking and lopsided for magic point skill check boosts when it comes to those who either want another option besides Stare or Yee-Haw and don't wish to take Generosity for whatever reason.

It is kinda lame that only Brawn and ONE skill stat have a utility talent that impoves the magic point +10 to skill checks effect and junk...

A1C Bronymous Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:12 pm

Brawn may have that one UT, but Persuasion already has a huge amount of support, and with a little fenagling, you're looking at +30 to +50 to any given persuasion check. Other than that 1/day big boost, you have to really rely on rerolling, if you have any, to support brawn checks that are, by comparison, fairly underpowered. Though its really just Persuasion, so that may be the first thing to focus on.

Getting rid of flat bonuses may be the right way to go, but then what options do you have to allow for the "extra" that should be present? Maybe just limiting how many times the bonuses can be used, or under what situations- but most of those are already in effect and can be worked around. You should probably look into UTs that, like pretty much all of the magic based UTs, reflect someone's skill in an area but don't require a check (like ponykinesis- using magic, but it doesn't require an arcana check- or magecraft- to operate). The Rainbow Dash is a good example of this- it establishes what you can physically do, instead of giving you a bonus and letting the dice decide.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:15 pm

I'd like to either make Yeehaw-Style-Talents for every skill, or make them for no skills. I don't want to cut them, because people love them so much, but +20 is *such* a big number... And giving Arcana the option to combine it with Magecraft would be pretty ridiculous (though a that point, they're probably sinking 4 full skills into their magecraft build... Magical Tricks, Magecraft, Failsafe Spell and the hypothetical +20 talent... At that point there *should* be results).

The issue is that not all skills are created equal, and attributes are carefully balanced so that the less powerful skills are paired with more useful ones. Heal is situational, but it sits next to Arcana and History. Endurance is super-narrow, but it gets to sit next to the almighty Athletics.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:16 pm

Also, Bronymous is entirely correct. I'd much prefer more talents in the style of "The Rainbow Dash", "Phase Step" and, "Art of the Dress" - things that give people cool abilities that are pretty clearly defined rather than abstract bonuses to die rolls.

A1C Bronymous Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:33 pm

Well that said, to submit in place of Wabbajack which is unacceptable, I have 2 versions of the same UT. They do the same thing, in name, but one give a roll bonus and the other is like The Rainbow Dash. Things like prep time(probably not), time limit, MP cost or per day limitations should be added per necessity.

Long Jumper
When you would make an athletics check to jump a significant distance or height, gain a +10 bonus to the check.

Long Jumper
You can jump much higher and farther than most ponies, jumping 20 ft forward or up (30 if you get a running start).
(This is assuming ponies can't normally jump 20 feet. What is the base jump stat anyway?)

Fury of the Tempest Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:16 pm

I said I was going to make it, so here it is:

Gravity Master:

ZamuelNow Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:58 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:The issue is that not all skills are created equal, and attributes are carefully balanced so that the less powerful skills are paired with more useful ones. Heal is situational, but it sits next to Arcana and History. Endurance is super-narrow, but it gets to sit next to the almighty Athletics.

Odd...I don't consider Endurance all that narrow, especially since you confirmed that it can be used to resist magical afflictions (something that very badly needs to be added its skill description). Sure, it's passive but it's resistance to all non-combat negative statuses that aren't mental and it can be made active by choosing to volunteer yourself in harsh conditions. I also find it interesting that I'd have swapped the other statement around, saying that the limited History is paired with Arcana and Heal/Medicine.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:01 pm

The difference is probably campaign-based. Endurance and Heal are reactive skills that rely on the DM to throw specific things at the party. Often whole sessions can pass without a Heal or Endurance check in some games, and there's nothing you can do with either check that is better than getting back to the status quo. They don't help you accomplish *new* things the way Persuasion, Athletics and similar do.

Mind Gamer Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:04 pm

If Endurance more specifically was useful against magical effects, it would sure as heck balance out how a non-magical Earth Pony could stand a chance against a Unicorn of equal level and relative strength.

...This just makes me want to make an Earth Pony with an almighty Endurance and see what I could use it to weather through.

A1C Bronymous Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:31 pm

Not much. Unicorns (read: magic users) are the superior race in this system. Most UTs are magical in nature, and mages have the greatest range of anyone, being able to do just about anything, including everything the other races can do. If you want to best one, you'll need a good deal of resistive racials, spec out endurance, or just rely on kicking them in the face and running hard so they cant catch you. WWhich they will, because they can PK you back, immovable you in place, put up a forcefield, teleport, fly, etc. that nonmages generally can't match.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:37 pm

Kindulas wrote:I can maybe see like a 2-5-minute time rewind Magic talent, that would specify you and up to 6 allies or some such number remember the time you erased (so it isn't like Galaxy Quest).

Also, what do you mean by mastery?

If you design that without making it a destiny feature, I will permanently relieve you of authority to develop destinies. =)

I kid, but seriously - that kind of epic thing is perfect for a destiny. (Provided we want it in the game at all - wasn't their a boon that did that?)

Mind Gamer Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:41 pm

Bronymous wrote:Not much. Unicorns (read: magic users) are the superior race in this system. Most UTs are magical in nature, and mages have the greatest range of anyone, being able to do just about anything, including everything the other races can do. If you want to best one, you'll need a good deal of resistive racials, spec out endurance, or just rely on kicking them in the face and running hard so they cant catch you. WWhich they will, because they can PK you back, immovable you in place, put up a forcefield, teleport, fly, etc. that nonmages generally can't match.

....

Challenge accepted.

No magic. No spells. Pure Earth Pony, with pure skills, who I intend to make a big enough badass to take on even the best mages.

This, I will create. LET THE EARTH PONY REVOLUTION BEGIN!

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:43 pm

Funny, I don't think a Unicorn has any advantages over any other race. Unless you prevent other races from taking magic-flavor talents and don't allow them to reflavor the talents to be non-magical or potion-based.

ZamuelNow Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:46 pm

Bronymous wrote:Not much. Unicorns (read: magic users) are the superior race in this system. Most UTs are magical in nature, and mages have the greatest range of anyone, being able to do just about anything, including everything the other races can do. If you want to best one, you'll need a good deal of resistive racials, spec out endurance, or just rely on kicking them in the face and running hard so they cant catch you. WWhich they will, because they can PK you back, immovable you in place, put up a forcefield, teleport, fly, etc. that nonmages generally can't match.

Reflavoring is Magic. There's a lot to be said for taking a technological or "I'm just that good" angle to a few things in the system.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:48 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Funny, I don't think a Unicorn has any advantages over any other race. Unless you prevent other races from taking magic-flavor talents and don't allow them to reflavor the talents to be non-magical or potion-based.

ZamuelNow wrote:Reflavoring is Magic. There's a lot to be said for taking a technological or "I'm just that good" angle to a few things in the system.

Well, there goes my arguments pretty well.

Mind Gamer Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:50 pm

To be fair, this is something that I've always had a personal problem with the show's races. The unicorns are always the most powerful, and the most important aspect of the Alicorns isn't that they have all the traits of the three races; no, it's that they have access to the most powerful magic. If Celestia had the prime traits of an Earth Pony focused on, you'd think she'd just be able to kick someone like Queen Chrysalis into the moon, and be done with her. Instead, that was simply a magic battle which she lost.

So yeah. This is now a thing for me. Not going to get hateful about it, but I think I'll be away for a bit. I've got an Earth Pony Badass to try and make. No flavored magic, no borrowed Unicorn talents or technological cheating. (It's not really cheating, but you know what I mean.) Just pure EpicPwny.

ZamuelNow Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:04 pm

Mind Gamer wrote:To be fair, this is something that I've always had a personal problem with the show's races. The unicorns are always the most powerful, and the most important aspect of the Alicorns isn't that they have all the traits of the three races; no, it's that they have access to the most powerful magic. If Celestia had the prime traits of an Earth Pony focused on, you'd think she'd just be able to kick someone like Queen Chrysalis into the moon, and be done with her. Instead, that was simply a magic battle which she lost.

It was a little more even in G1 than G4. Plus, the problem is that the headliner unicorn for FiM, Twilight Sparkle, is freakishly overpowered. Most others don't have access to that. Rarity is more useful for her social skills (which Twilight actually lacks) than her magic.

So yeah. This is now a thing for me. Not going to get hateful about it, but I think I'll be away for a bit. I've got an Earth Pony Badass to try and make. No flavored magic, no borrowed Unicorn talents or technological cheating. (It's not really cheating, but you know what I mean.) Just pure EpicPwny.

Pinkie Pie is canonically an inventor so tech is absolutely fair game for an Earth Pony.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:05 pm

Hey. Just because Twilight is the most powerful, doesn't mean she out-shadow's her friends.

Magic isn't the answer to everything.

Hayatecooper Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:20 pm

Name one thing, magic isn't the answer to or that you can't solve with a heck of a lot of magical power.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:23 pm

Hayatecooper wrote:Name one thing, magic isn't the answer to or that you can't solve with a heck of a lot of magical power.

One friend has become a famous celebrity and a new job, thanks in part with another friend. The first friend however, doesn't like this new fame and the second friend is jealous of the first.

How do you solve this problem?

kajisora Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:25 pm

Hayatecooper wrote:Name one thing, magic isn't the answer to or that you can't solve with a heck of a lot of magical power.

Politics.
Unless you take over of course.
but still, social stuff in general.
Again, unless you count mind control. Which kind of defeats the point.
EDIT
I also tend to like the train of thought that says that while the unicorns have more active control, they're not actually more powerful. The pilot has AJ jumping down the cliff that Twilight was scared to death of falling into. Twilight utterly exhausts herself allowing Rarity to do what even fluttershy does easily (flying). etc.

Sponsored content