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Official Errata Suggestion/Discussion Thread (changes you'd like to see made)

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Post  Fury of the Tempest Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:47 pm

Was anyone else reminded of Theif from 8-bit therte as that last post?
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Post  Zarhon Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:53 pm

History: I've seen this dirt before...

Streetwise: "I know these sediment layers like the back of my hoof. They've got their share of buried secrets..."
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Post  A1C Bronymous Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:47 pm

I have a proposal to suggest, involving everyone's favorite not broken in anyway UT magecraft.

Magecraft (and maybe magical tricks, but maybe not), should have one other prerequisite, which is a CM in Arcana. My reasoning behind this is twofold:
1: Magecraft demands specialization, so the odds of someone not having a CM in it when they take it are probably low- BUT they still might, and they would be dooming themselves to failure more often than not. This ensures that they are putting points into magecraft to use it correctly.
2: Show canon- anyone who has seen the show knows that Unicorns (and heretofor meaning any magic user), only have a little magic relating to their special talent, unable to perform big complicated spells or things not related to their cutie mark, unless their special talent is magic. Special Talent in Magic means Cutie mark about Magic, and a Cutie Mark about Magic would most reasonably translate to a CM in the Arcana skill. It just plain makes sense, then, that without a Cutie mark in Magic (Arcana skill), a Unicorn (magic user) should not be able to do the things that Magecraft allows them to do.
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Post  Mind Gamer Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:48 pm

Perception: "The weakest part of the dirt, that I can simply walk through... Is HERE!"

Heal: "I use the dirt to heal my wounds. Ergo, the dirt is no longer in my way."

Endurance: "I eat the dirt."
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Post  ZamuelNow Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:15 pm

Considering the written version of Terrify doesn't sound like what it's supposed to be and there's at least one Destiny feature that uses it, you may want to update Terrify's wording.
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Post  Kindulas Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:40 pm

ZamuelNow wrote:Considering the written version of Terrify doesn't sound like what it's supposed to be and there's at least one Destiny feature that uses it, you may want to update Terrify's wording.
What do you interpret it as doing?
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Post  Ramsus Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:57 pm

Enthrall has a [*] but, there is no note.

Bunches of comments from Dan saying the comments were resolved... but, we can still see that.

Why would anyone take a Clumsy minion when they can take a Talented one and give it Derp?

Protaganist's level 7 is not very useful in a lot of games and it's not good that you can run out of your level 7 feature (until you hit level 10). Additionally it can be completely worthless if there is an Arch-Lich or Miracle Worker in the party. You might at least consider giving it an alternate option.
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Post  ZamuelNow Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:01 am

https://ponytales.forumotion.com/t627p195-official-errata-suggestion-discussion-thread-changes-you-d-like-to-see-made#54255

As written it sounds like you by yourself just get a +5 to intimidation for one minute.  The discussion brought out that it's supposed to be something akin to your whole team getting that bonus because the creature is terrified of everything.  Might just need a sidebar comment as opposed to a full rewrite but the latter (which is supposedly the intent) is a lot more powerful than the former.  Perhaps adjust it to:

Terrify (2) - [1/Day]
Characters of your race can put on a terrifying display, terrifying target creature for the next minute. All creatures, including your entire party, gain +5 to persuasion checks when attempting to intimidate a terrified creature.

Added "target", mentioned team usage, and removed the sight descriptor in case you make scary noises/smell horrid/personal space invasion (AKA works on any sense).
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Post  Kindulas Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:12 am

Ramsus wrote:Enthrall has a
[*] but, there is no note.

Bunches of comments from Dan saying the comments were resolved... but, we can still see that.

Why would anyone take a Clumsy minion when they can take a Talented one and give it Derp?

Protaganist's level 7 is not very useful in a lot of games and it's not good that you can run out of your level 7 feature (until you hit level 10). Additionally it can be completely worthless if there is an Arch-Lich or Miracle Worker in the party. You might at least consider giving it an alternate option.
[*]
1) Oh god, where did that go >.>
Seems I'll have to rewrite it, it was quite important.

2) Very odd, I remember those comments being dissmissed, and yet somehow they showed up again.

3) Hm, fair point. I wonder if there's a good way to fix this without saying "it can't have Derp"...

4) That's fair, I can see some kind of second option being added



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Post  Xel Unknown Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:24 am

Stilll I'd argue there is no reason AT ALL to take any minion other then Red Shirt... He'll die for you... ALWAYS... Only downside is that it takes a week to revive the minion, which is odd... Given the fact that a utility regens quicker then that.
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Post  Mind Gamer Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:26 am

I've been thinking about Challenge Fate for a while, and thought up something new.

Look Again! - [3/Session]
Utility Talent
Reroll a D20 roll result you can see. If a character rolls a Nat 20 on this roll for a skill check, they may spend a magic point to treat the crit as a Cutie Mark Critical.

Basic idea, the classic cartoon moment. Character A tries, appears to fail and angsts. Character B smiles, tells Character A to look again... And it works!
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Post  ZamuelNow Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:26 am

Well, the Talented minion could be restricted to dailies (which Derp is not). On the other end, perhaps Clumsy could gain some sort of buff. I wonder if it would be unfeasible to allow it to use an Element/Virtue, even if restricted to just using yours.
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Post  Kindulas Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:31 am

ZamuelNow wrote:https://ponytales.forumotion.com/t627p195-official-errata-suggestion-discussion-thread-changes-you-d-like-to-see-made#54255

As written it sounds like you by yourself just get a +5 to intimidation for one minute.  The discussion brought out that it's supposed to be something akin to your whole team getting that bonus because the creature is terrified of everything.  Might just need a sidebar comment as opposed to a full rewrite but the latter (which is supposedly the intent) is a lot more powerful than the former.  Perhaps adjust it to:

Terrify (2) - [1/Day]
Characters of your race can put on a terrifying display, terrifying target creature for the next minute. All creatures, including your entire party, gain +5 to persuasion checks when attempting to intimidate a terrified creature.

Added "target", mentioned team usage, and removed the sight descriptor in case you make scary noises/smell horrid/personal space invasion (AKA works on any sense).
"Creatures" gain +5 to persuasion checks when attempting to intimidate a terrified creature. That doesn't just mean you - though it isn't very explicit. Would just saying "Any creature gains" work? As for the sight thing... it does make a lot of sense that you can at least make spooky noises at someone who can't see you. There needs to be something clarifying sense range, but "Sense you" seems odd. Personally I'm thinking it should just be changed to "See or hear you" on that front.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:43 am

"All creatures" probably makes it even more clear than, "Any creature".
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Post  Zarhon Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:44 am

@ Vile Villain:
Would it be too much to remove the huge crit-fail penalty on the "Clumsy" minion, and just give it a Magic Point? It can't use the Magic Point for anything other than a +10 bonus to self/single ally, and is less useful than a non-upgraded companion otherwise (and with upgrades, a companion can match and out-do it for a similar "price"), cause it critfails everything half the time, and critfails generally screw over more than just the minion, its master and his/her party as well. And compared to the Archlich and his zombies...

@ Archlich:
Are there any limits to the Zombie Minions you can have/summon other than duration, as far as the Archlich destiny is concerned? Do you need a corpse for it to work, or any such "components", or do you whip them up out of thin air?

@Master of Madness
The lvl 7 features states: "Furthermore, whenever you use Laughter, after you learn the effects of your roll(s) you may instead reroll one of those effects.".

Does this mean you can re-roll an effect you've seen before (in case you don't want it), or that you can have an effect you've seen before be rolled?". And what does "You become resistant to your own Laughter." imply, compared to complete immunity at lvl10?
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Post  ZamuelNow Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:39 pm

So...Focused Evolution.  

It's been subject of discussion about what it does to the game.  I think part of the concept of making a sacrifice in exchange for a few racial points is okay.  The problem is that it's not enough of sacrifice in comparison to what you get from it.  There's a bit of weirdness to it's structure that causes me to make this suggestion.  Change Focused Evolution from a 1 point racial to an utility talent.  Costing a point to gain points just feels really weird from a mechanics perspective.  As a utility talent, it would feel more in line with Derp, Pick of the Litter, Highborn, and Steady Hooved in manipulating the racials themselves and/or Magic Points.  Losing a utility talent along with the Magic Point would feel more like a sacrifice since as is, someone would just make a build that doesn't need Magic Points.  Focused Evolution probably still needs tons of testing and discussion but the suggestion seems like a worthy temporary measure to adjust this.
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Post  Philadelphus Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:08 pm

I agree with this proposal. After all, the way it's set up right now to gain racial points by spending racial points is like having a utility talent that gives you three more utility talents. It's just kind of strange. We already have Pick of the Litter and Highborn so it's not that much of a stretch. Since Focused Evolution removes your Magic Point, perhaps it could simply be added as another Magic Drain talent?
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:46 pm

I just don't like the thing at all. It's problematic and kills magic points and makes the elements unable to activate wiithout special builds.
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Post  Hayatecooper Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:11 am

Yeah but who cares about Magic Points/Elements half the time anyway?

Honestly I'd much prefer it become a Magic drain utility talent(Not that it affects laughter builds)
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Post  Ramsus Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:16 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:I just don't like the thing at all. It's problematic and kills magic points and makes the elements unable to activate wiithout special builds.
If you don't like it how did it even wind up as an official option?
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:18 am

Kindulas liked it and I'm still technically on break. Plus, some people do like it and the system isn't just built for me. It's an interesting experiment.
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Post  Lapis-Lazily Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:18 am

I think some change may indeed be warranted, though I disagree with Stairc's complete dislike for it. Indeed, much change has been made, and the whole prospect of magic drain is still finding a good place of balance in the system. The talent started as a 0 point racial that gave you 4 racial points for not having magic points. The 1 point for 6 iteration was put in place was for two reasons:
1. At 0 cost, it was too easy to just take and not think about
2. 4 was deemed by developers to be too low for the loss, so it was rebalanced to net 5, but that seems like too much to me

This in itself has raised the current issues you guys bring up. I think it may well work much better as a utility talent and the only reason it stayed a racial is probably because Kindulas and I liked the idea of a magic drain racial.
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Post  ZamuelNow Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:00 am

With all this said, I also add a suggestion for a terminology update. Considering we have Magic Drain, Derp and similar future utilities should be called Magic Boost.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:03 am

Magic Drain as a term only exists so that people can't take more than one (as not gaining a magic point would be a redundant sacrifice if you already have another ability with Magic Drain - making it extraordinarily overpowered). I get the parallel, but why would we need that for stuff that gives you extra magic points?
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Post  Kindulas Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:40 am

Focused Evolution was added as a racial so that you could template a race with it as flavor. The reason it's a (1) not a (0) was Hayate's question about "Can I take pick of the litter in order to get this" back before it was (1). This made me realize something more confusing: When could you take it? This wasn't an issue for anyone customizing their race, but if you're playing a default race, could you.... pick up a (0) pointer just because? Having it be a (1) meant you have to get Pick of the Litter or something if you were playing a default race.

However, people keep finding game-breaking combos with it. Hayate's "Infinite companions" combo, the new "Benevolent Genetics" combo, there just keep being stupid combos with it. Even if we made it a utility talent, people could still do those combos by taking it as a 2-point-racial, AND people could grab it with the Element of Magic... which would be horrifyingly powerful. I really like what it was intended to do, give people more options to give up Magic Points for more stable options. Hayate proves not everyone loves having Magic Points. I myself take Derp 90% of the time and love MAgic points more than anything. My current character uses Create Crazy Contraption and Versatility (Element of Magic) constantly. However, it seems to be like a leaking boat where it just keeps needing band-aid patches, and I fear that if we don't just cut it it'll need a page of "You can't do XYZABCDEF or G with it"

it's the fact that you can get more than you pay for. Even with MPs as a side-cost, you can pay some of one thing to get more of said thing, and it seems that just begs to be broken
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