The Destiny Upgrade

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The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Kindulas on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:26 am

Good news everyone! Here's the deal. The level 4 and 7 features of a destiny are balanced to both be worth 2 utility talents - to both be equally powerful.
This is counter-intuitive and lame.
So, we're revamping all the destinies so the level 7 feature is worth 3 utility talents.
Furthermore, we're adding a destiny based on the Explorer's level 10 feature that should forever fix the "None of these destinies work for my character at all!" problem. When nothing fits spot-on, there's a destiny that's useful for anyone. Named from how Dungeons and Dragons player characters are "Adventurers," we bring you the "Adventurer" destiny. Now, it isn't system-legal yet, since the level 7 is more powerful than everyone else's, but you might be able to talk your DM into letting you use it, or applying the feature to *one* skill in the mean time to make it more appropriate.

Adventurer
You’re an "adventurer," the quintessential hero. Delving dungeons, defeating monsters, saving cities and exploring endless vistas - whatever your style, you do it all.

Level 4 - Hero
A Paragon of adventurers needs to be ready for anything. Specialization in a single skill is not enough for the trials you face. As such, your range of skills goes above and beyond what others can hope to achieve. You gain an additional expert skill, even if you already have one.

Level 7 - Paragon
You’ve been on a great deal of quests and adventures, and you’ve become more skilled than the average person. When you make a skill check for an expert skill, you roll twice and take the higher result.

Level 10 - Epic Adventurer
You’ve reached the pinnacle of adventuring expertise. Your experience is so broad and your abilities so grand that no challenge is too great for your skill. You gain the following utility talent
  • Epicness - 3/Day Interrupt
    Trigger - You would roll a d20 for a skill check
    Effect - Treat the result as though you rolled a natural 20. This does not trigger a spectacular success.

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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:30 am

YAY THE LEVEL SEVEN FEATURES WILL GET UPGRADES! Hope that Evelution level 4 get's changed as well... Cuase it's basiclaly the weakest of all level fours out there. And it's hard to think of how to best make use of the power to mess with one's racials at the start of each day. At best you'd think of one way to change things... And never mess with it again.

*laughs thinking at what the future level 7 of master of madness will look like* XD
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Kindulas on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:37 am

Xel Unknown wrote:YAY THE LEVEL SEVEN FEATURES WILL GET UPGRADES! Hope that Evelution level 4 get's changed as well... Cuase it's basiclaly the weakest of all level fours out there. And it's hard to think of how to best make use of the power to mess with one's racials at the start of each day. At best you'd think of one way to change things... And never mess with it again.

*laughs thinking at what the future level 7 of master of madness will look like* XD
Yeah, I've always liked the idea of Evo, but the level 4 doesn't do anything because I just want to set my race up the way I want it... but with more points! So I would take a level 4 i'd never use just for more points by 7 and... then that's still a wasted 4 slot...
So I'm going to spoil this. The level 4 will get buffed too... by becoming the current level 7. What will the level 7 do? Hm.......

On that note, if you have Evo characters that haven't hit level 7, feel free to talk to your DM about dropping the level 4 and giving them three attribute points, since that's what the destiny *will* do.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:41 am

Ok... I'm not sure that'll be an "upgrade" for that destiny's level 7... More of a major downgrade in my opinion... Then again you basically become god at level ten so I guess that "balances" out in the fuzsy hidden math that you guys talk about so much.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Kindulas on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:46 am

Xel Unknown wrote:Ok... I'm not sure that'll be an "upgrade" for that destiny's level 7... More of a major downgrade in my opinion... Then again you basically become god at level ten so I guess that "balances" out in the fuzsy hidden math that you guys talk about so much.
I haven't said anything about what the level 7 will do, just that the new 4 will be the old 7 and the new 7 is yet a mystery...
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:47 am

Ah... I must have totally misread that then. jocolor 

Coolio!
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Hayatecooper on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:09 am

If your making Destiny changes...
Can you mess around with the Shapeshifters lvl 4? Which kinda states "Don't take all of the Shape Shifter talents at lvl 1 or else I'll be useless forever."
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Ramsus on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:29 am

Hayate, if you did that, since you're generally allowed to re-pick utilities when you level up, you'd just swap two of them out for other utilities.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Hayatecooper on Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:04 am

True
But it's still annoying and makes the lvl 4 feel kinda useless.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Ramsus on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:25 pm

It's not useless. It's two utilities. Exactly the same as Self-Discovery, only it's specific ones.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Philadelphus on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:02 pm

Kindulas wrote:Now, it isn't system-legal yet, since the level 7 is more powerful than everyone else's, but you might be able to talk your DM into letting you use it, or applying the feature to *one* skill in the mean time to make it more appropriate.
...
Level 7 - Paragon
You’ve been on a great deal of quests and adventures, and you’ve become more skilled than the average person. When you make a skill check for an expert skill, you roll twice and take the higher result.
I'm not sure if you're looking for ideas for how to fix the level 7 in this thread or not, but what if you made it "you may choose to roll twice, but must take the second result"? That way it'd be great for low rolls, but wouldn't be spammed all the time when people roll high. That might be a change too far in the other direction though...

Perhaps you could make it like The Unseen's level 7, where 1's on your expert skill are no longer critical failures? Just throwing ideas out there. Again, sorry if this isn't meant to be the discussion thread.

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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Paper Shadow on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:38 pm

Ramsus wrote:It's not useless. It's two utilities. Exactly the same as Self-Discovery, only it's specific ones.
Speaking of Self-Discovery, I wonder how this change will affect its Level 7. Currently it's the right strength because a Level 4 and Level 7 Destiny are both worth 2 utility talents, but under this upcoming system, that becomes weaker than the average if it remains the same, but if it gave two Level 4 Destinies instead it becomes stronger than the average. Wonder where the middle ground will be...

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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:39 pm

Most likley it'll just be a level four and a free utility.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Ramsus on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:52 pm

I think it'd be fine as two level 4's and being slightly above the curve. *shrug* I really don't think it needs to give more utilities.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Xel Unknown on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:03 pm

Don't think so either Ramsus, just what I'm betting that will be done for that destiny's future level 7 upgrade.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Z2 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:21 pm

If you're taking suggestions, here's a potential add on for Planeshaper level 7:

Your level 4 utility receives the following upgrade:
'I Said 'Shape REALITY', not 'Sculpt Stuff'
Your control over the form of things expands greatly, you can now shape things as though you had the ability to add pressure, time, and heat to your materials at any point during the process; making steel of coal and iron, marble of limestone, or psychically cooking waffles. The ability to 'push' greater amounts of pressure, heat, and time into your creations is based on a check from your highest skill; with DCs for more difficult alterations set at DM discretion.

That's not exactly the weakest utility up there, but in a destiny that involves a lot of player creativity I think it's appropriate... Plus it would REALLY HELP to make up for the EXCEPTIONALLY unpleasant fact that Planeshaper's level 4 is just Fabricate with more uses.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:29 pm

Paper Shadow wrote:
Ramsus wrote:It's not useless. It's two utilities. Exactly the same as Self-Discovery, only it's specific ones.
Speaking of Self-Discovery, I wonder how this change will affect its Level 7. Currently it's the right strength because a Level 4 and Level 7 Destiny are both worth 2 utility talents, but under this upcoming system, that becomes weaker than the average if it remains the same, but if it gave two Level 4 Destinies instead it becomes stronger than the average. Wonder where the middle ground will be...

 Not sure what Kindulas has in mind, but yeah getting two level 4s would make the destiny both have huge versatility *and* more raw power than the other options - which would be a problems. Adding a utility talent of your choice does work I suppose... But I'd rather it was a bit more interesting. Perhaps doubling the uses of a current x/day talent.

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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  ZamuelNow on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:47 pm

While a lot of Destinies could probably need boosts to fit people's opinions of them or be more usable, Very Best Friend's level 7 may be the most in need of fixing since it has a valid chance of being completely locked out from using it since it only works in tandem with the level 4, which is random.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:51 pm

Perhaps Very Best Friend could have a supportive option as well at level 7. I wouldn't mind seeing more level 7s with choices. The level 10 is OMG YES, the level 4 you choose your destiny but the level 7 of a destiny is often the one time you don't make a decision (again, level 10 doesn't matter as much because you often choose a destiny waiting to get to that super-pinnacle).

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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Philadelphus on Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:21 am

I do like the system in some of the destinies where you pick one of two (or more) options at level 7, and get the one(s) you didn't pick at level 10 (in addition to other cool stuff). I haven't actually taken one of them, but I like the idea and I think it'd be cool for more of the destinies to do that, so you could have a meaningful choice at level 7. (It'd also make Self-Discovery's level 10 a bit more dynamic, if more level 7 features had multiple choices to choose from.)

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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:10 am

I can't wait to see what the new Self-Discovery level 7 will be... Maybe a 2nd Magic Point...
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Kindulas on Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:58 am

Okay guys, the destiny upgrade will go live this evening (24th). First, some notes:
Explorer's level 3 has, as you've noticed, been taken by the Adventurer. The Explorer will not be present in theme, though I do hope to revive its existence in the future. Similarly, the Dragon Disciple destiny, while awesome in flavor, had problems with both
A) Being a static min-maxable stat bonus
B) Forcing the DM to invent and kill a super-powerful NPC. This had the same issues as the old boons, only worse.
We couldn't figure out a good way to do it, but we *will* have a cool dragon-related destiny to replace it.

For some good news, the level 7s were not the only features touched. We rebalanced level 10s as well to the approximate standard of Evolution, which means mostly buffs! There were a few level 4 buffs and reworks as well.

For a bit more bad news - exceptions to the level 7 buffing include Spelljacker and Metagamer, which were already worth 3 utility talents, not the 2 they should have been. Shapeshifter's forms were considered powerful enough that getting 2 was worth a new level 7, but there is a new form to choose from. Metagamer's level 10 also doesn't get as many extra uses of Cheater - no other level 10s received straight nerfs, however, just buffs or changes. We really didn't want any of this rework to be about nerfs, but Metagamer had to suffer a bit of one - it's still obscenely powerful, however, and doesn't lack any of what was cool about it.

So, with those pieces of bad news out of the way, we are *super* excited about all the extra awesomeness the destinies will be getting, and hope you are too!


Last edited by Kindulas on Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Kindulas on Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:07 am

To this end, we're spoiling the new Inventor:

Inventor
Level 4 - It’s Bigger On The Inside
You invent a small container about six inches in diameter. You may store up to two thousand cubic feet of objects in this container. You can withdraw an object from this object as easily as if it was in your pocket. In addition, you gain the Create Crazy Contraption utility talent.
[*]

Level 7 - Gadget
Your whizbang genius intellect allows you to create one of the following items.



  • Fantastic Flying Contraptamatron - Item
    The user can fly with good maneuverability (the user takes no penalty to precision and brawn skills while flying)

  • Ludicrous Language Translatatron - Item
    While using this item - the user can speak, read, write and understand any language he or she either reads or hears. The user can also communicate with animals and other creatures that don’t speak languages as easily as they verbally communicate with other creatures. In addition, once per day when the user makes a persuasion check and rolls a natural 1, they can reroll it.

  • Superb Spatial Translocatifimier - Item
    Once per day,  you may spend ten minutes to use this item to transport up to six willing creatures (of large size or smaller) that are touching this item to any location that the activating creature has been to before. However, magical barriers in either the destination or place of departure can prevent the transportation.

  • Terrific Transforming Thingamajigicator - Item
    You may spend a magic point to transform this item into anything you could make with the Create Crazy Contraption utility talent. After 1 hour, it turns back into a small orb.


Level 10 - Industrial Revolution
Your mastery of engineering and brilliant mind allows you to use Create Crazy Contraption three times a day without spending a Magic Point.
In addition, you invent something that could, given time, permanently advance society. For example, creating the Telegraph - allowing for widespread use of Magical Messenger - or improved medical equipment (granting a +5 to heal checks for those using your equipment). As the creator, you've made sure that you've built in some "back doors", you may take control of your equipment or force it to stop or start working as long as you have access to it.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Mind Gamer on Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:09 am

Problems with the Dragon destiny? ...I should think this is obvious to fix. Instead of your mentor being a gigantic powerful dragon, have your "mentor" be a cache of knowledge. Could take the form of anything from a library of books, to the soul of a Dragon bonding with yours. Hitting Level 7 just means you've absorbed enough knowledge or done enough stuff to generate your own Dragon power. In short, all the dragon, none of the NPC.
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Re: The Destiny Upgrade

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:14 am

Not so easy a fix because...

1) The dragon flavor is one reason it was so popular. Taking the dragon out of dragon disciple makes it less cool.

2) The +10 to knowledge was really too much when combined with things like Magecraft. The level 7 was overpowered for the old version and doesn't fit will into the "level 7s are now worth 3 utility talents instead of 2" - though the concept of the level 7 is still fine. The level 10's pile of treasure was oddball too - as a dragon's hoard is hard to measure - and the permanent +10 boost overwriting the level 4 feature was slightly awkward. It was also just way too much power for the level 10.

3) The aforementioned flavor issues and enforced story materials - though those can certainly be dealt with.

Really, the destiny is torn in two directions. A, "you are getting dragon-powers" destiny and a, "loremaster" destiny. I'd be happy to add a destiny of either type to the system. Feel free to submit full designs.

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