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Post  Snagging Roots Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:36 am

I absolutely need to applaud you on the swiftness with which you always seem to reply, it's amazing...
Big Smiles, Sweetie 
To that end, what time zone are you in man? I'm in the Eastern US so it's like 0330 here, which makes the quick reply seem more out of place.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:39 am

Thanks, glad to help out. I'm on the west coast so it isn't too late for me yet. Hope you had a good turkey day.
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Post  Snagging Roots Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:13 pm

Okay, another quick one: Physical Prowess... Can it trigger a critical success? If so, at what point does that occur?
reference:
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Post  Paper Shadow Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:16 pm

Snagging Roots wrote:Okay, another quick one: Physical Prowess... Can it trigger a critical success? If so, at what point does that occur?
reference:
Apparently so, but it only works if the total of the 3d10 is 20 (or, if you've got the Adept and a CM in the skill, a 19). If you roll 21 or higher it counts as a normal roll...
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Post  Xel Unknown Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm

Personally I'd suggest having crits happen if the roll has at least one d10 get a 10 and the total is greater than 20 (or 19).
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Post  Zarhon Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:38 pm

The "Unseen" destiny has a lvl7 skill that is sort of questionable in its usability, at least, for those not min-maxed in stealth, as well as those who don't preemptively build their characters with intent of taking the destiny from level 1:

Cover of Night - 1/Day
For the next 10 minutes, up to 6 allies may use your stealth modifier when making stealth checks instead of their own.
Now the key thing here is "stealth modifier" - is this the base skill, or your total bonus?

Does "stealth modifier" mean your normal, base, unmodified value of stealth (in other words, a static, hard-to-change value you have from level 1, depending on how far you've gone to min-max it back at character generation), meaning that if your stealth skill is lower than that of party members, this skill is useless/detrimental?

Or does it take into account whatever your stealth roll bonuses happen to be during its duration? For instance, if you activate the ability, and then boost a stealth roll with Nightwisps (which is a direct bonus to your stealth, if the wording is correct), or if allies provide you with assist/MP bonuses, or you gain a particularly nice situational bonus, or you activate "stealth mode", do all your allies get that 'boosted' value as well?

If it's the first of the two, then I think it is the only destiny ability that relies on having a high value in a single skill from character generation, to truly benefit from (others give skill-unrelated bonuses, multiple skill options, or very large boosts to compensate). It may need a rewording, or alternate ability option for that level. Keep in mind that destinies are picked at lvl4 (a LOT of real-life time passed by then, in almost any campaign), and not everyone picks/decides their destinies at level 1.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:09 am

It's the former, that number that goes next to the word, "Stealth" in the skills section of your character sheet. It's a great way for a stealthy party member that prizes sneaking around to sneak the whole party in somewhere. It isn't good if you're terrible at stealth. Since this destiny was specifically made for the stealth-focused character, having a decent stealth score to take full advantage of it doesn't seem like a terrible incentive.
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Post  Zarhon Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:35 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:It's the former, that number that goes next to the word, "Stealth" in the skills section of your character sheet. It's a great way for a stealthy party member that prizes sneaking around to sneak the whole party in somewhere. It isn't good if you're terrible at stealth. Since this destiny was specifically made for the stealth-focused character, having a decent stealth score to take full advantage of it doesn't seem like a terrible incentive.
That makes its power very relative - it's good if you've got a 18-20, but probably pointless/weak for a 10 or lower value, per any precision focusing people (likely a few, since it has a few vital skills, and it's rarely a 'dump stat'), or if there's a different stealth specialist.

It sort of makes the destiny give you less benefit if you decide "I wanna be stealthy as well", at level 4, rather than at level 1. Most of the destinies allow leeway as to what you built your character around with various bonuses, this one is decided when you build the character's stats.

It also stymies the flavoring of the ability - you can't utilize "alternate methods" to apply to "stealth" to your party (e.g. mechanical cloaking device, acts of misdirection, magical illusions, distracting music...), just the stealth "skill", and there are more than one method of being stealthy (that is, not just to stay hidden - to conceal information, or hide the obvious, or obfuscate). Why be limited to the single skill?
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:44 am

This really isn't a simple question anymore, but if you'd like to discuss the destiny feel free to bring it up in a specialized thread. The loose answer though is that it fits perfectly with the core agony of many stealth-focused individuals that then select a stealth-based destiny - that they can't use their skill to sneak the whole group in. They can be sneaky, but they don't want to split the party and most of the party probably isn't very good at stealth. Being able to spread your skill around is perfect for such people.

Not all destinies are made for absolutely everyone after all. Of course, getting an extra option to take over that stealth option for other people that still want the 'kinda stealthy' thing going for them could be cool. Either way, subject for another thread.
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Post  Snagging Roots Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:20 pm

Me again, combat traits this time. My friend is going to be running a nifty conjuration combo and I was wondering how the game would handle it...
He plans on using the following talents to maximize damage, but I think there is a little something more to what he can do with it...
putrid explosion:
reincarnation:
So, what I'm seeing here is that exploding them is a free action and regenerating them would be a reaction to that. The game handles conjurations by giving their turn right after the owner, right?... So, couldn't the conjuration get a turn in the middle?
If so, then this becomes an option too:
soul channeling:
As well as a whole host of ridiculous things...

Am I understanding this correctly? Sorry if this isn't a simple answer question.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:29 pm

I've used this combo myself and it's awesome. The conjurations' turn comes right after the owner - and then in the order of conjuring. So, if you conjure conjuration A and later conjure conjuration B, at the end of your turn conjuration A goes and then conjuration B goes. If you conjure conjuration C - it enters the initiative order right after conjuration B and then waits its turn. So, if you conjure conjuration C during conjuration B's turn somehow (like with putrid explosion and reincatnation) - it'll get to take a turn very quickly. If you do it during someone else's turn, you might have to wait longer.

Also, Channel Soul is awesome for this - but since it only works once a round and not once a turn it's totally fair.

Did that answer your question? If not, feel free to clarify.
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Post  Snagging Roots Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:35 pm

That's an excellent answer. That goes further than I was expecting anyone to... Also, I forgot the distinction of round against turn which brings down the combo a bit.
Sit pretty amazing. And, with enough dedication you can pull most of it off at level one...
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Post  Crystalite Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:57 pm

If this works the way I think it does, I will be quite happy. The really questionable part(s) is highlighted in bold red.

Build:

Tactics:
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Post  Xel Unknown Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:33 am

You are totally right about the awesome Wild Abandon + Overloader combo that is how they work. I've used it myself and boy is that fun. (and I suggest looking into upgrading to Berserker’s Rage (by way of the Amulet of Adrenaline), along with using the two reloaders... To add to the fun turn one combo.)

And while I say that trying to add Midnight's blade into the mix is a bit of a waste, (because combat is mostly planned to last about 6 turns average.) it totally should be usable to use both effects on the same attack, or spliting it up between two attacks if you can do more then one a round.
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Post  Hayatecooper Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:54 pm

So.. I wanted to know, if I take the minion granted by the Vile Villain destiny and give it talented, can I then give it Companion?

Level 7 vile villain:
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Post  LoganAura Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:17 pm

With the way things are? Sounds like it, so you'd have a minion with it's own minion.

As a DM I'd ask no because that's 2 additional NPCs to keep track of.
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Post  sunbeam Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:35 pm

Also, there's no reason why flavor-wise it can't just be another of your minions, Dumb and Dumber style.
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Post  Hayatecooper Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:33 am

Oh if I do it, I'll have 3 NPCs following me around
An Anti-Princess Combat System, An evil roomba(lvl 7) and.. not sure really. Mostly I thought it would be hilarious.
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Post  Crystalite Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:23 pm

Had a couple of questions about how certain talents I'v never used before...

First off: When the Shapeshifter talents say "you can't use any of your other talents" does that include trained skills, FK, and other passive bonuses? If not, which ones?

Secondly: I recently made my first ever Weather-Crafter (Hector Gildedwings, in my siggy) and I'm wondering how much effect I can realistically expect to achieve. Seriously, I have no idea what kind of DCs are involved.

EDIT Thirdly: Also on Hector, I have two combat traits, Iron Warden and Throw The Gauntlet, that both issue "challenges".

- Can I do trigger Iron Warden and Throw The Guantlet on the same attack?

- And can I have multiple creatures "challenged" at a time? If an attack targets multiple creatures, can I challenge all of them at once?
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Post  Zarhon Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:17 pm

1) That is a pretty good question, as with the recent ability update (that removes the distinction between utilities and racials), that would include both utilities AND racial abilities. Trained skills shouldn't be affected, FK's would (since that's an ability), though a DM might still allow it, since it's strictly "passive", and something you'd know in the new form. Cutie marks would probably fare in a similar manner - they're technically a utility benefit, at least in the non-updated talents.

Going strictly by the rules, you can't use anything that utilities give you, and maybe racials. Your skills and non-utility training stats remain as they are, though.

2) Weathercrafting DCs are up to the DM, though strong stuff like lightning/hurricanes and other "major" weather effects will probably be 20-25+ DCs. It also depends on which skill you're utilizing for it (remember, DM's can veto a skill choice if it doesn't make sense): I'd suggest using your highest and/or cutie mark skill, as that gives you super-crits and a good chance of success.

3) Both traits count as a "challenge" effect, and they don't stack with each other, and they share the same trigger, so no, you can't use them both - at least not on the same creature/target. If you use a challenge on a creature already affected by one, then the old one gets removed in favor of the new one.

HOWEVER, Since "attack a creature" allows for multiple-target abilities, you should be able to apply a single challenge to any number of creature affected by an attack. For instance, you can use an ability that hits up to six creatures to put a "Iron Warden" OR "Throw The Gauntlet" (not both, though) challenge onto all six of them.

There is a bit of a vague spot as to whether you can choose to apply different multiple effects across multiple targets (for instance, using an targets-six-creatures attack, and having targets 1,2,3 get affected by Iron Warden, whilst targets 4,5,6 get affected by Throw The Gauntlet).

Although, the ability/trait isn't strictly worded as a reaction/interrupt, so it doesn't necessarily abide by the "trigger" rules.
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Post  Xel Unknown Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:03 pm

In my opinion most passives should get though by rule of loophole.
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Post  Crystalite Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:13 pm

Zarhon wrote:1) That is a pretty good question, as with the recent ability update (that removes the distinction between utilities and racials), that would include both utilities AND racial abilities. Trained skills shouldn't be affected, FK's would (since that's an ability), though a DM might still allow it, since it's strictly "passive", and something you'd know in the new form. Cutie marks would probably fare in a similar manner - they're technically a utility benefit, at least in the non-updated talents.

Going strictly by the rules, you can't use anything that utilities give you, and maybe racials. Your skills and non-utility training stats remain as they are, though.

Sooo, for instance, in Form Of The Rat, I should be able to continue treating Stealth as a trained skill (It is) for a total of 20 (35 if I use the built-in Stealth Mode.) FK depends on my GM; probably won't be big deal. Cutie Mark prob won't be a huge issue; if I'm using Form Of The Rat I'm probably not going to need to persuade anyone. Perception might be an issue; it is trained and Eagle Eye'd. I guess I'll have to ask Dusk on that on.

Zarhon wrote:
2) Weathercrafting DCs are up to the DM, though strong stuff like lightning/hurricanes and other "major" weather effects will probably be 20-25+ DCs. It also depends on which skill you're utilizing for it (remember, DM's can veto a skill choice if it doesn't make sense): I'd suggest using your highest and/or cutie mark skill, as that gives you super-crits and a good chance of success.

So, again, it just depends on the GM. But, between an Endurance score of 13, Sky's The Limit, and Longrunner, and occasional usage of Thunderbird, I shouldn't have too much trouble hitting 25.

Zarhon wrote:
3) Both traits count as a "challenge" effect, and they don't stack with each other, and they share the same trigger, so no, you can't use them both - at least not on the same creature/target. If you use a challenge on a creature already affected by one, then the old one gets removed in favor of the new one.

D'oh!

Zarhon wrote:
HOWEVER, Since "attack a creature" allows for multiple-target abilities, you should be able to apply a single challenge to any number of creature affected by an attack. For instance, you can use an ability that hits up to six creatures to put an "Iron Warden" OR "Throw The Gauntlet" (not both, though) challenge onto all six of them.

There is a bit of a vague spot as to whether you can choose to apply different multiple effects across multiple targets (for instance, using an targets-six-creatures attack, and having targets 1,2,3 get affected by Iron Warden, whilst targets 4,5,6 get affected by Throw The Gauntlet).

Although, the ability/trait isn't strictly worded as a reaction/interrupt, so it doesn't necessarily abide by the "trigger" rules.

That, however, works absolutely great by me. Inferno + Throw The Gauntlet + Blast From The Past will make an excellent finisher combo, if I can feed it enough energy. I'm tempted to drop Shield Of Valor all together...
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:53 pm

Actually, the answer on the different-challenges stacking is wrong. They aren't the same identical effect, so the diversity rule doesn't apply (the rule that says you can't have two of the same item, ability etc. unless specifically specifically stated otherwise). They're also worded to have two components.

1) They allow you to 'challenge' creatures.

2) They allow you to do things when a creature you've challenged does something.

The second part is independent of the first part. It doesn't recognize a difference between different types of challenges. So if you have both Iron Warden and Throw the Gauntlet, their second parts can both apply to a creature you've challenged. They're not interrupts or reactions, so you aren't limited to 1-per-trigger. Basically, taking multiple challenge-traits is a way to make your challenges even more devastating as you level up. Of course, you have to be careful to reach the right balancing act of incentivizing your enemies to hit you and being able to survive all that attention... But not being SO tough that it becomes better to hit your allies again.
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Post  Fury of the Tempest Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:58 pm

Most challenges do so say that a creature can only have one challenge on them at a time though, so stacking challenges doesn't happen.
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Post  Stairc -Dan Felder Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:01 pm

Indeed. You can't have different players challenge the same guy. However, one player only needs to have his or her challenge on a guy to benefit from both Iron Warden and Throw the Gauntlet. Both work if you have the guy challenged.


More in-depth...

Both traits give you ways to challenge creatures and a separate way to mess with creatures you've challenged. It's no different than traits that said...

Dazing is Tough
Whenever you attack a creature, it becomes dazed until the end of your next turn. Your allies have resist 3 against creatures you have dazed.

Dazing is Punishing
Whenever you attack a creature, it becomes dazed until the end of your next turn. Whenever a creature you have dazed attacks one of your allies, you may deal 5 damage to it after the attack.


The phrasing on those aren't close to game-standard but they get the idea across. The part of the traits that daze creatures is independent of the second part - which lets you mess with creatures you have dazed. It doesn't matter which trait you used to daze them.
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