New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Go down

New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  ZamuelNow on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:00 pm

Utility Talent - Immunization:
Immunization - 3/Day
Preparation Time: 2 Minutes
For the next <number of hours>, you or target creature gains a bonus to resisting diseases and curses equal to your Heal score.

Something for Heal and technically winds up being something for Endurance.  While potentially a large buff, it's to something rather specific that may not come up in some campaigns.  Not sure if the size of the buff prevents this from being more uses a day or just how many hours it should be.  Added the "and curses" line both to keep it similar to the other Heal utility and to help add a preventative counter to things like petrification, transmogrification, etc.
avatar
ZamuelNow
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 3304
Join date : 2013-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:06 pm

Well now the original version seems better then the overly complex version in my opinion. But might need a drawback or somethin'...
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:06 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:Well now the original version seems better then the overly complex version in my opinion.
Same here to be honest.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:09 pm

Maybe a way to make it less boring is to ass a minor drawback or something?
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:11 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:Maybe a way to make it less boring is to ass a minor drawback or something?
Nice typo, Razz

Secondly, I don't want to add a drawback. Honestly, its designed to be simple and consistent. Its not meant to be exciting, its meant to be a reliable way of dealing damage.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:12 pm

We don't want to add any new talent unless it provides meaningful new options for strategy and/or would make a good number of people smile at the thought of using it. The second version of Nick is too complicated and doesn't open meaningful new strategic options, the first version is unexciting and doesn't open meaningful new strategic options.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:14 pm

That's why I say give it the right drawback and it'll look really intersting and open new options for combat.
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:17 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:first version doesn't open meaningful new strategic options.
Yes it does. It gives the option to provide a consistent form of damage and pip gain. Like how Defensive Fighting gives you the option to deal damage and increase you defence, Arcing Bolt allows you to deal small AoE damage and Healing Salve heals an ally.

I mean really. How is Defensive Fighting more exciting than Nick?

Xel Unknown wrote:That's why I say give it the right drawback and it'll look really intersting and open new options for combat.
Like what?
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:21 pm

My two thoughts off the top of my head is either give it some vul, like an +2 version of Taunting Strike, (with an extra buff of bypassing resist) or have it pay life, because I'm in a bit of a paying life kick with my suggestions lately. Another idea is make it cost a minor action too to use... That might make it interesting.
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:23 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:I mean really. How is Defensive Fighting more exciting than Nick?

Because it makes sense for a defender build to take it and will form a bedrock of that kind of strategy. Nick is flat damage when lots of people enjoy die rolls, it combines with basically nothing in the system and it has no meaningful strategic value that other stuff doesn't already cover. Making the damage fixed instead of a die roll isn't a meaningful difference, it just promotes monotony, and making it bypass resistance is fun but there are other ways to eat minions (and if that's the strategic role this serves, then I'd rather see a version of the self-damage talent, because that's a more interesting difference and also serves other strategic interests).

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  A1C Bronymous on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:25 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:and/or would make a good number of people smile at the thought of using it
Until its been in for about two weeks, and then gets nerfed down to unexciting, uneconomical, and with no real strategic value.

Need a drawback? Make it -x pips, target loses x life. Probably incorrect equivalent, but that general idea- [-x], pay X+3 or Xdy damage or something.
avatar
A1C Bronymous
Air Commander, Equestrian Armies Pegasus Corps, Eastern Skies Command
Air Commander, Equestrian Armies Pegasus Corps, Eastern Skies Command

Gender : Male
Posts : 5723
Join date : 2012-07-18
Age : 27
Location : Columbus, MS

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:28 pm

Its strageic roll is to be a consistent pip builder for an striker type character. Someone that deals a lot of damage to a single target, but doesn't do so in bursts. They focus primarily on consistent, reliable but high damage
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:34 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:Its strageic roll is to be a consistent pip builder for an striker type character. Someone that deals a lot of damage to a single target, but doesn't do so in bursts. They focus primarily on consistent, reliable but high damage
1) Strikers have lots of options for pip-builders while continuing to do single-target damage.

2) There are other + moves that deal consistent damage without bursts. The lack of the roll doesn't open any new strategic options. Anything that isn't exciting and/or meaningfully strategic is unnecessary clutter.

This still looks like clutter between the exciting or interesting strategic options. It probably will continue to look like that unless something changes fundamentally about the design. I recommend figuring out what you like about the move and figuring out a new way to get that across that also meets the criteria for inclusion.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  ZamuelNow on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:36 pm

Considering the lack of enemy pip damage options, one idea to open up a debuffing role could be:

[+2] Nick - Standard Attack
Deal 3 damage to target enemy, then flip a coin. If heads, that enemy loses 1 energy.
avatar
ZamuelNow
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 3304
Join date : 2013-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:50 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:1) Strikers have lots of options for pip-builders while continuing to do single-target damage.

2) There are other + moves that deal consistent damage without bursts. The lack of the roll doesn't open any new strategic options. Anything that isn't exciting and/or meaningfully strategic is unnecessary clutter.

This still looks like clutter between the exciting or interesting strategic options. It probably will continue to look like that unless something changes fundamentally about the design. I recommend figuring out what you like about the move and figuring out a new way to get that across that also meets the criteria for inclusion.

No. There. Isn't.

What is meaningful about Nick? The fact that it ignores resistance, the fact that not much else does, and it is the only +2 that is just single-target attack.

I have already figured out what I like about the move. 1. Its damage is consistent, which is done both through its static damage and its resistance-piercing. 2. It gives me 2 PiP's and does damage, with no drawbacks.

That is why I suggested it in its original state. Because it is what I like about it, an it opens up meaningful strategic choices. [+3] either do little damage, have a drawback to the damage, or might not do damage at all. The [+1]'s don't give enough PiP's. That is why Nick has meaningful strategic value.

What other [+2]'s do damage? Arcing Bolt, with is AoE, and Defensive Fighting, which gives Resist, so its for a Tank/Defender build and Rampage, which does more damage when bloodied, so its not a move to use right at the start.

So, there you have it. Nick, in its base form, has stragetic value and is just as exicting as say, Knife in the Dark or Defensive Fighting.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:27 pm

ZamuelNow wrote:Considering the lack of enemy pip damage options, one idea to open up a debuffing role could be:

[+2] Nick - Standard Attack
Deal 3 damage to target enemy, then flip a coin.  If heads, that enemy loses 1 energy.
Mmm... I think this option might be the best idea for Nick to do.
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:33 pm

Change its name please.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:38 pm

@Fury - Currently, I'd say Nick firmly falls under the heading of, "Well, it technically has *some* strategic value - even though other options do pretty much cover its extremely narrow role already." That isn't enough to get it in the system unless it's exciting too. It isn't right now, and trying to compare it to the barely-in-there Knife-in-the-Dark (only slightly interesting because of the versatility of its multiple modes) and the highly strategic Defensive Fighting in terms of excitement isn't going to get it in.

This conversation isn't going to go any further. Nick doesn't clear the bar of being strategic enough (other things pretty much already cover it) or exciting enough. That won't change unless the talent does.

@Zamuel - We're actually already considering removing all instances of things that mess with enemy pips - as pips for monsters change in value compared to pips for players and the talents easily cause DM headaches.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  ZamuelNow on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:09 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:@Zamuel - We're actually already considering removing all instances of things that mess with enemy pips - as pips for monsters change in value compared to pips for players and the talents easily cause DM headaches.
That's...incredibly disappointing. Plus, (unless tabletop has more) there's a grand total of one combat talent that affects enemy pips, it's single target, and it's random whether or not it even works. A well designed monster should have a mix of +, -, and 0 pip moves unless it's just supposed to be cannon fodder.
avatar
ZamuelNow
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 3304
Join date : 2013-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:11 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:other things pretty much already cover it
Like. What.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:29 pm

ZamuelNow wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:@Zamuel - We're actually already considering removing all instances of things that mess with enemy pips - as pips for monsters change in value compared to pips for players and the talents easily cause DM headaches.
That's...incredibly disappointing.  Plus, (unless tabletop has more) there's a grand total of one combat talent that affects enemy pips, it's single target, and it's random whether or not it even works.  A well designed monster should have a mix of +, -, and 0 pip moves unless it's just supposed to be cannon fodder.
Check this out. What's the difference between these two monster attack blocks?

[+900] Deal 5 damage to target creature.
[-1800] Deal 19 damage to target creature.

[+1] Deal 5 damage to target creature.
[-2] Deal 19 damage to target creature.

Outside of stuff that messes with pips they're exactly the same. But this changes the value of a 'messes-with-enemy-pip-thing' immensely. It requires DMs to know about those moves and account for them in a balanced fashion when building monsters - which is an additional tax on DM time and can trip up people less familiar with the system... Making things less DM-friendly.

Furthermore, plays can lock a monster out of pips (theoretically) if there are multiple moves that can do it and can be piled on reliably.

Those reasons and a few others (it's hard to concretely see the benefits of you reducing the enemy pip costs - since you don't know the stat block - for example) are why pip-destruction isn't exactly high on our list... Or on it at all.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:52 pm

... How about this?

[+2] Find Weakness - Standard Attack
Roll a 1d8, on rolls of 5 or bellow, do 3 damage to target enemey, ignoring resistance. On rolls of 6 and above, do 6 damage to target enemey, ignoring resistance
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:55 pm

There is only two moves that bypasses resist in this system... I don't totally see how that means "it's coverd" Becasue both of those are a +1 move and one of them is apart of a specialized form talent... So yeah. Also do totally agree that it's a shame that you'll be removing Smash and Grab... But it's understandable why you'd do that.

combat doc wrote:[-3] Form of the Panther - Minor Utility
You conjure a Form of the Panther onto yourself. You may assume your normal form as a minor action. While in the Form of the Panther you cannot use your normal combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below. [*]

[+4] Stalk - Standard Utility
Choose target creature. That creature suffers vulnerability 2 to your next attack.

*[+1] Razor Claws - Standard Attack
Deal 1d10 damage to target creature. If you roll an 8 or higher, that creature takes 3 ongoing damage and loses resistance (save ends). This attack ignores resistance.

[-2] Pounce - Standard Attack
Deal 2d8 damage to target creature. If this attack triggers vulnerability, deal 2d12 damage instead and that creature is dazed until the end of its next turn.

[-5] Maul - Standard Attack
Deal 3d8 damage to target creature, that creature suffers 5 ongoing damage and is weakened (save ends both)

&

*[+1] Piercing Shot - Standard Attack
Deal 1d8 damage to target creature. This attack ignores resistance.
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:57 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:... How about this?

[+2] Find Weakness - Standard Attack
Roll a 1d8, on rolls of 5 or bellow, do 3 damage to target enemey, ignoring resistance. On rolls of 6 and above, do 6 damage to target enemey, ignoring resistance
Ok that looks kinda awesome... Though I'd personally wanta have it use a d6 myself... But that's likely because of my habit of no-crit builds.

Like having it be 1-4 on a d6 deal 2 damage and with 5 & 6 dealing 6 damage. (both outcomes bypassing resist like you suggest here)
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  ZamuelNow on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:37 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
ZamuelNow wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:@Zamuel - We're actually already considering removing all instances of things that mess with enemy pips - as pips for monsters change in value compared to pips for players and the talents easily cause DM headaches.
That's...incredibly disappointing.  Plus, (unless tabletop has more) there's a grand total of one combat talent that affects enemy pips, it's single target, and it's random whether or not it even works.  A well designed monster should have a mix of +, -, and 0 pip moves unless it's just supposed to be cannon fodder.
Check this out. What's the difference between these two monster attack blocks?

[+900] Deal 5 damage to target creature.
[-1800] Deal 19 damage to target creature.

[+1] Deal 5 damage to target creature.
[-2] Deal 19 damage to target creature.

Outside of stuff that messes with pips they're exactly the same. But this changes the value of a 'messes-with-enemy-pip-thing' immensely. It requires DMs to know about those moves and account for them in a balanced fashion when building monsters - which is an additional tax on DM time and can trip up people less familiar with the system... Making things less DM-friendly.

Furthermore, plays can lock a monster out of pips (theoretically) if there are multiple moves that can do it and can be piled on reliably.

Those reasons and a few others (it's hard to concretely see the benefits of you reducing the enemy pip costs - since you don't know the stat block - for example) are why pip-destruction isn't exactly high on our list... Or on it at all.
I can see being hesitant about adding more pip destruction moves but I think it's a little flawed to remove the one option that's already here. I figured the very reason why it was random was because of the concerns you're noting. This is a personal design thought but most of these concerns seem to be with solos in mind and I feel that solos are bad boss design in their very nature. Most of their ways of becoming a challenge shut down entire control/debuff strategies. I'm not super experienced but it's a recurring problem in both tabletop RPG systems and videogame RPGs. Also, for any enemy where a strategy is too powerful (stun, confuse, etc) there's always the option of negating the effect but converting it to damage. With not knowing enemy pip values, well...we don't know HP either without certain talents/weapons or an enemy type that reveals such info. I think removal of Smash and Grab should actually be slightly less dependent upon revising combat and rather be more dependent upon completing the Monster Compendium since it's quite dependent upon what players have to fight against.

As far as the concept of things not being GM friendly, I'd argue that the aim behind a number of parts of the system should be about building better GMs. There's other things that could stand to be improved/reworded because their potential to cause problems.
avatar
ZamuelNow
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 3304
Join date : 2013-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum