Crit ideas

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Crit ideas

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:19 am

Hi all,
I've been tapped to develop balanced crits for the combat revamp, with the new math. I've gotten very good at balancing crits, but we need fresh ideas. Post whatever ideas you think would work for a crit, and I'll balance them and work as many as I can into the new set of crits. Feel free to post individual crits, or themes for a set of them.

For the record, almost all of the old crits are currently in the new system, but Wild Lightning and Assassin's gambit are not. Wild Lightning no longer exists because we're trying to make random creature damage less prevalent (it's being replaced with random enemy damage, which is well covered by the new Bucaneer Blaze), but Assassin's Gambit disappeared largely due to a lack of idea on my part (the old version was impossible to balance). Any suggestions there?
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Re: Crit ideas

Post  ZamuelNow on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:38 am

-Loss of life instead of just damage
-An overt DoT focused crit
-Movement increase (for tabletop)
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Re: Crit ideas

Post  Pingcode on Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:11 am

Perhaps a Summoner crit might have potential? Both weapon summoning and monster summoning directions.
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Re: Crit ideas

Post  Paper Shadow on Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:34 am

sunbeam wrote:For the record, almost all of the old crits are currently in the new system, but Wild Lightning and Assassin's gambit are not. Wild Lightning no longer exists because we're trying to make random creature damage less prevalent (it's being replaced with random enemy damage, which is well covered by the new Bucaneer Blaze), but Assassin's Gambit disappeared largely due to a lack of idea on my part (the old version was impossible to balance). Any suggestions there?
The reason Wild Lightning is being removed is because of the special on it that no one ever uses? Couldn't you just replace the d10 special with something else?

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Re: Crit ideas

Post  LoganAura on Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:38 pm

Paper Shadow wrote:The reason Wild Lightning is being removed is because of the special on it that no one ever uses? Couldn't you just replace the d10 special with something else?
Well, take into consideration all the specials are being changed completely, Paper. People might be taking Buccaneer Blaze now afterwards.

I don't really have any ideas for crits. Hm, maybe a crit for, Iunno, pip gaining?

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Re: Crit ideas

Post  Philadelphus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:40 pm

ZamuelNow wrote:-Loss of life instead of just damage
-An overt DoT focused crit
-Movement increase (for tabletop)
I second that. In fact, I think can use both those first two ideas...

8: Deal X Ongoing damage to target enemy. If target enemy is already suffering from Ongoing, increase it by X.
10: Target enemy is subjected to your "Life Drain" (save ends). While subject to "Life Drain," a creature loses Y life at the beginning of each turn.
12: Target enemy is subjected to you "Life Steal" (save ends). While subject to "Life Steal," a creature loses Z life at the beginning of each turn, and you gain Z HP.

I leave it to you to figure out what X, Y, and Z should be (whether random spread or static). If the 12 is too powerful it could perhaps give Temp HP rather than health regen.

Edit: the movement increase idea is interesting too, I'll have to have a think on that...

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Re: Crit ideas

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:27 pm

LoganAura wrote:
Paper Shadow wrote:The reason Wild Lightning is being removed is because of the special on it that no one ever uses? Couldn't you just replace the d10 special with something else?
Well, take into consideration all the specials are being changed completely, Paper. People might be taking Buccaneer Blaze now afterwards.
Most people disliked the d10, and the d12 is downright impossible to balance for*. That means that for the theme, we have one move to work with, "deal 1d12 damage to a random enemy." The new Bucaneer blaze already has a bunch of random enemy damage, so there would almost undoubtedly be too much overlap there. Also, Wild Lightning wasn't removed so much as it morphed into something different over time: Wild Power, which is a fair bit different but still very random (I think of it as a "tons o' fun" table for combat, but with less negative outcomes). So if you want random damage, you can take Bucaneer Blaze, and if you want straight randomness, then you can take Wild Power. So on the whole, Wild Lightning is generally well covered.

Also, Paper, I'm surprised you didn't immediately link me to your crits. I had a look at them last night, but I was hoping you could post you ideas for the basic concepts/themes behind them, since a lot of their abilities are very difficult to balance (The better idea I have of what them you were working with, the closer they'll be to your idea when I rejigger them).

*This is actually a lie. You just have to balance it as a 4/5 chance to use a [-9] or higher move, which is WAY more powerful than any other d12.



Philadelphus wrote:
ZamuelNow wrote:
-An overt DoT focused crit
I second that. In fact, I think can use both those first two ideas...

8: Deal X Ongoing damage to target enemy. If target enemy is already suffering from Ongoing, increase it by X.
10: Target enemy is subjected to your "Life Drain" (save ends). While subject to "Life Drain," a creature loses Y life at the beginning of each turn.
12: Target enemy is subjected to you "Life Steal" (save ends). While subject to "Life Steal," a creature loses Z life at the beginning of each turn, and you gain Z HP.
Ooh, definitely a good idea. Someone else suggested an ongoing damage crit that gives you tokens that can boost ongoing damage. I think I'll try combining the two of them.



Pingcode wrote:Perhaps a Summoner crit might have potential? Both weapon summoning and monster summoning directions.
This is difficult to do, because we already made an offensive support crit (grants +bonuses to damage, etc.), and there's not much difference between buffing a conjuration and buffing an ally. Also, granting actions is almost prohibitively expensive now that we've actually zeroed in on a cost for it. What do people think of a crit that makes conjurations? any ideas for what those guys could do?

Hm...a weapon summoner crit...I don't know how this would work. Weapons cover so many different attack options that it's hard to support all of them. The only idea I have is an crit that basically grants you pips, but everyone would want that crit, and granting pips is expensive (I don't think the d8 crit can immediately grant a pip to somebody). What other suggestions do people have for this?
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Re: Crit ideas

Post  Paper Shadow on Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:23 pm

sunbeam wrote:Also, Paper, I'm surprised you didn't immediately link me to your crits. I had a look at them last night, but I was hoping you could post you ideas for the basic concepts/themes behind them, since a lot of their abilities are very difficult to balance (The better idea I have of what them you were working with, the closer they'll be to your idea when I rejigger them).
Well, they were around for some time, so I assumed the devs weren't interested in them (they already decided against my favourite one, Invocation, when I submitted it in the Weekly Updates). But I'll give you a rundown of concepts...

Aim of the Archer: Basically taking aim. Giving up strong immediate bonuses that other special moves usually give to provide power later. In retrospect some of the things could be better...

Samurai's Heart: Inspired by the Challenge stuff (such as the Throw the Gauntlet trait), basically duelling an opponent and punishing them for targeting your allies. It gives Temporary HP so the user doesn't die because of the special move (similar to how Knight's Presence gives Resist)...

Savant's Master Plan: High Risk High Reward. You lose your d8 and d10 specials (more or less), but if you get lucky and ride a d8 special to the d12 one, you gain a massive bonus. I will say people I've talked about this don't like it, so there's that...

Invocation: Ultimate Utility, gives little immediate value (depends on what you take, really), and I guess can stall in tabletop games. If I were to remake it, I'd have it work like the Power-Up combat talent where, when you take the special move, you select what you want to take for each special and when you roll it, you gain that special move (maybe give it to allies like the Be Prepared d12 Special), but at the cost that if you get the crit again, you get nothing (unless you have more allies or something)...

Hope that helps...

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Re: Crit ideas

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:23 pm

Have a new thread made for crit ideas, with new information on the new math for balancing them and it's new!

Normally, adding crits is really hard to get into the system compared to other combat features. Right now, it's exactly what we're looking for. 

Here's a link.

http://ponytales.forumotion.com/t790-new-special-moves-designs-needed#68318

I decided to make a new thread so I could get the posts about what we're looking for and how to do it at the top. Feel free to repost any ideas that you have over there.

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