New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Xel Unknown on Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:55 pm

Fury, free actions, can be spamed endlessly as long as you can pay for it's cost.
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:58 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:Perosnally what bugs me and what I belive is why I'm not giving great feedback is because I'm fearful to what Crit-Talents will do the metagame of the combat system. And in my opinion the only thing it will do is make critfisher builds what will feel like the only way to get the best out of the crit-talent. It's a can of worms that might not work the way you think it will. While I do personally love the idea of this "Token" mechanic (It's basically the craft talent, but can be used for more then one talent, which is cool)... Paring it up with Crits, might not be the way to work it, because they might make such talents appear too strong, or make people feel the only way to work them is with critfisher type builds.
Shouldn't be an issue. Fundamentally, all you're doing is having the option to save the effects you'd normally get for triggering a crit for later - like crafting acidic addendum. The longer you wait, the more time-delay there is and the less valuable the crit gets. Letting you save it for later and have some options on what to spend it on should be a huge issue - if done correctly.

Also, we're going to seriously limit critfishing in the new system. Too high variance for most DMs. You'll be able to do it, but not rely on it. Meaning there will be ways to build around crits, but they won't be as hilariously OP as before. Or reliable. If you want to take a chance on crits, awesome. But right now you can almost guaruntee they show up reliably.


Last edited by Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Sorry Fury, I missed the 1/round bit.

The survival of Critfisher's roll 5 option is currently up in the air. Also, if somebody wants to sit still and critfish to be productive in a battle, I say let them do it. When they get lucky, it'll be awesome, and when they don't, they'll be unproductive.

Also, Xel, if you don't like token ideas, then suggest other crits. Anything is fair game, here.

And lastly, he labelled it once per round in the text. But it is probably better to put it somewhere clearer, like right next to the name (like they do for weapon granted talents).
avatar
sunbeam
Epic Pwny

Gender : Male
Posts : 1930
Join date : 2012-10-24
Age : 23
Location : Elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:04 pm

So... any additional thoughts on the updated Special Moves?

I'm wondering if it might be possible to make a Conjurers special move and/or a Weapon master special move...
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:05 pm

I like the idea of a special move that conjures creatures. Weapons would probably be too hard to balance.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:08 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:I like the idea of a special move that conjures creatures. Weapons would probably be too hard to balance.
Yeah... weapons probably would be too hard.

So... something like this...

8: Summon a creature that costs [-2] or less
10: Summon a creature that costs [-3] or less. A conjuration you control can take a standard action
12: Summon a creature that costs [-5] or less. Summon copy of a conjuration you control.

Very, very rough.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:16 pm

Why not give the move unique conjurations? Or perhaps one conjuration that you can upgrade if you roll higher crits.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:16 pm

I've been balancing the assassin's crit for a little while and man, damage-dealing tokens are painfully expensive. This is what I have right now. I still haven't put a cost on ignoring resist, but that could be worked into most of it.

Hunter’s Strike
At the start of each turn, Choose a creature. That creature is your Prey until the start of your next turn.
[0] Hunting Strike - Interrupt Utility
Trigger:You deal damage to your prey or cause your prey to lose life.
Result: Spend X Hunter tokens. That attack does an additional Xd8 damage.

8: You gain 1 Hunter token. Target creature loses 1d4 life.
10: You gain 1 Hunter token. Choose a creature. That creature gains vulnerability 2 to your attacks until the end of your next turn.
12: You gain 3 Hunter tokens. Your Prey loses 2 life.

It feels really underpowered to me. Making the hunter tokens deal damage in d6s is an option, but it makes mathematical manipulation obnoxious (Vuln is also very costly, compared to most status effects).


Last edited by sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
sunbeam
Epic Pwny

Gender : Male
Posts : 1930
Join date : 2012-10-24
Age : 23
Location : Elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:21 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Why not give the move unique conjurations? Or perhaps one conjuration that you can upgrade if you roll higher crits.
Why not have all three?
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Xel Unknown on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:22 pm

sunbeam wrote:I've been balancing the assassin's crit for a little while and man, damage-dealing tokens are painfully expensive. This is what I have right now. I still haven't put a cost on ignoring resist, but that could be worked into most of it.

Hunter’s Strike
At the start of each turn, Choose a creature. That creature is your Prey until the start of your next turn.
[0] Hunting Strike - Interrupt Utility
Trigger:You make an attack that only targets your Prey.
Trigger: Spend X Hunter tokens. That attack does an additional Xd8 damage.

8: Deal 1d4 damage to target creature. You gain 1 Hunter token.
10: Choose a creature. That creature gains vulnerability 2 to your attacks until the end of your next turn. You gain 1 Hunter token.
12: You gain 3 Hunter tokens. Deal 2 damage to your Prey.

It feels really underpowered to me. Making the hunter tokens deal damage in d6s is an option, but it makes mathematical manipulation obnoxious (Vuln is also very costly, compared to most status effects).
I think having the d12 for this be 2 loss of life would be better... Or have it's damage at least bypass resist. And maybe have the D10 move just be +X damage to attacks.
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:23 pm

Well, having ALL three... They'd seriously step on one another's toes identity-wise and thus dilute the uniqueness of one another.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:24 pm

Okay, when I said using d6s was obnoxious, I was apparently lying. Here's the d6 version:

Hunter’s Strike
At the start of each turn, Choose a creature. That creature is your Prey until the start of your next turn.
[0] Hunting Strike - Interrupt Utility
Trigger:You deal damage to your prey or cause your prey to lose life.
Result: Spend X Hunter tokens. That attack does an additional Xd6 damage.

8: You gain 2 Hunter tokens. Your prey loses 1 HP.
10: You gain 2 Hunter tokens. Target creature loses 2 HP. That creature gains Vuln 1 to your attacks until the end of your next turn.
12: You gain 3 Hunter tokens. Target Creature gains Vulnerability 2 to your attacks until the end of your next turn.

Which one of the two looks stronger to people? Does either one looks particularly strong?

@Xel. Good point about the d12 bypassing resist. The idea with the crit is to pound one enemy really hard, so I think it's better to give an enemy vuln than to empower yourself.


Last edited by sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:35 pm; edited 3 times in total
avatar
sunbeam
Epic Pwny

Gender : Male
Posts : 1930
Join date : 2012-10-24
Age : 23
Location : Elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:25 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Well, having ALL three... They'd seriously step on one another's toes identity-wise and thus dilute the uniqueness of one another.
So, two instead? Having one that focuses on your current conjurations, and another offering unique conjuration?
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:27 pm

sunbeam wrote:Which one of the two looks stronger to people? Does either one looks particularly strong?
I prefer the d8 one tbh. Less tokens, so less rolls per crit... but each roll you do make has a chance to crit as well.

And I think resistance should be ignored more...
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:28 pm

For the record, anything that lets you use your normal combat talents would be very limited in terms of cost. (a d8 crit is worth less than a [0] move, so most summons outside of the rabbit/energy spark are off the table if you want the d8 to be: use a summon X combat talent.) So it might be best to just have a special move that makes more conjurations.

I changed the Assassin crit so that it makes people lose life, and reworded Hunter's Strike so that it can activate off of losing life.
avatar
sunbeam
Epic Pwny

Gender : Male
Posts : 1930
Join date : 2012-10-24
Age : 23
Location : Elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Xel Unknown on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:34 pm

Personally I find "get vul for only your attacks" is very lame effect. And makes one feel like they're not a team player.
avatar
Xel Unknown
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 7018
Join date : 2012-08-30
Age : 28
Location : Somewhere, nowhere

View user profile http://us3.herozerogame.com/?resource_request=23219_2_1

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:37 pm

sunbeam wrote:For the record, anything that lets you use your normal combat talents would be very limited in terms of cost. (a d8 crit is worth less than a [0] move, so most summons outside of the rabbit/energy spark are off the table if you want the d8 to be: use a summon X combat talent.) So it might be best to just have a special move that makes more conjurations.
Its still possible to give the conjurations actions or pip's, isn't it? Even at d8.

So two special moves, one that has its own conjurations, and one that focuses on your own would work.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:39 pm

this crit is for Assassin's specializing in obliterating 1 creature at a time. It's not much of a team player to begin with. Also, +X to damage, which you suggested earlier, is either:
a)+X to attacks (way more powerful than vuln)
b)+X to attacks against this creature (effectively the same as vuln, but with slightly less focus on one enemy being targeted)
Neither of which are very team oriented either.

I need to get some mathematical minutiae from Dan (who's studying for a final right now), but you can probably grant a conjuration 1 pip with a d8 crit. If you limit that to Conjurations (which you should, because otherwise it's just a general utility crit), then it should work fine, but it also looks kind of sad. I suppose most conjurations really only need 1 pip...
avatar
sunbeam
Epic Pwny

Gender : Male
Posts : 1930
Join date : 2012-10-24
Age : 23
Location : Elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:47 pm

Yeah, it is a little sad... but conjurations don't do much in terms of pip building. One pip is normally pretty strong for them.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  sunbeam on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:49 pm

It's in that awkward zone where you look at
8: target conjuration gains 1 pip
And after some strategizing/contemplation, you look up stuff like the celestial avenger, and realize what it's good for, but when you first see it it looks super depressing.
Also, we need three effects. Target conjuration gains 1 pip is one, but making them all "target conjuration gains X pips/may take a standard action" really doesn't make for that interesting of a crit (and granting a standard action is already part of Inspiring Word, the newly made Offensive support crit, so putting in a similar effect dilutes the awesomeness of both of them).
avatar
sunbeam
Epic Pwny

Gender : Male
Posts : 1930
Join date : 2012-10-24
Age : 23
Location : Elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:54 pm

Well, if one already has an extra standard action... why not giving the conjuration a full turn?

And of course, the third effect is the summoning a conjuration from your talent pool... or possibly copying a conjuration you already have. But I think the latter is most powerful.
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:55 pm

I don't think a crit that requires you to actually have ways to summon your own conjurations makes sense - as it'd be odd that the most dedicated conjurer builds (unless they take that one trait) almost never trigger special moves.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:58 pm

... A focused conjuration build not taking special summon, is like a 3.5 Druid not taking Natural Spell
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:59 pm

Or it's like most of the conjurer builds I've seen, including several ones I've run. Special Summon isn't always as powerful as other options.

_________________
Looking for an artist right now, one that would be excited to work with me and Kindulas in creating a superhero comic. If you're interested, know anyone that might be interested, or just want to give the script for our first issue a read - enjoy the link below.

My Comic Project
avatar
Stairc -Dan Felder
Lead Designer
Lead Designer

Gender : Male
Posts : 3098
Join date : 2012-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Fury of the Tempest on Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:03 pm

... If you say so.

But fine. It'll just be any normal conjuration under a normal cost. You don't have to have it in your combat pool. Happy?
avatar
Fury of the Tempest
Freakin' Alicorn Princess

Gender : Male
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 24
Location : ENGLAND!!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Special Moves - Designs needed!

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum