Absolutely Crazy Ideas

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Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:53 am

Hey folks, want to see some absolutely crazy ideas for combat talents? Well, you've come to the right thread. Here's some examples for mechanics that could open up new options for combat talents... And are probably outlandish, crazy ideas in the first place.

For example... Check this out. Here's an idea inspired by GW 2's elemental weapons that I whipped up an example talent for. This talent has only been in development for 5 minutes in my mind and I'm sure it's not balanced or formatted prettily or anything like that. Regardless, enjoy.

[-6] Conjure Magic Thunder-Hammer
You conjure a magic thunder-hammer to wield. While you are wielding the Magic Thunder-Hammer, you cannot use your normal combat talents. Instead you may use the talents provided by the Magic Thunder-Hammer.

Magic Thunder-Hammer
[+2] Deal 1d12 damge to target creature.
[-2] Deal 1d10 damage to up to four target creatures.
[-5] Deal 1d10 damage to target creature and stun another target creature until the end of your next turn.
[+6] The Magic Hammer vanishes. You may use your normal talents once more. (This talent can be used as a free action).


I'm also considering the conjuration just have ammunition. A certain number of charges you can use that, once expended, the hammer vanishes. If so, the de-summoning last talent would go away



And, here's another - inspired by the alchemist talents created by Lapiz Lazily.


[-2] Craft Emergency Provisions
You craft one vial of, "Emergency Provisions". You may expend a vial of, "Emergency Provisions" to use the talent below.

Emergency Provisions - Immediate Interrupt
Trigger - You or or target ally would take damage that reduces you or that ally to 0 hp or less.
The target gains 1d12+5 temporary hp.


Again, balance issues but you get the idea.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Philadelphus on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:54 am

A crazy talent off the top of my head:
[+4] Time Warp - Free action
You jump to last place in the turn order.

Yeah, this would probably be crazy broken with a teammate at the beginning of the turn order with Quick Tempo.

And a similar idea for some sort of passive combat talent (maybe a trait?):
Slow Starter
You always go last in the initiative order, but begin combat with an additional 4 PiPs.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Zarhon on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:05 pm

[-3] Share the pain
Choose two enemy targets. Whenever one of the chosen targets is damaged/gets rolled damage, the other chosen target receives the same damage/gets rolled the same amount as a separate roll. Area attacks that hit both of them at once do not affect this. Vulnerability damage increases are applied only for those suffering from them.

(e.g. target enemy A & B. Attack hits enemy A for 1d8 damage. Enemy A rolls 4 damage. Then, enemy B has to roll 1d8 damage for itself as well. Enemy B rolls 6. Same effect works in reverse. )

[-X] Ultimate Sacrifice
You lose all your hit points, reducing yourself to 0 hp. You cannot be revived or healed, or otherwise act in any way (even if allies or enemies would force or allow it) for the next two rounds. After that period, you can be revived/healed and act as you normally would, but are also Weakened for the rest of the fight (Removable only with special abilities). In exchange, all your allies are revived, restored to full health, and gain the amount of PiPs you paid when you used the ability. This ability can only be used once, by only one player, per encounter.

[-8] Light of Hope
You suffer from 1 Ongoing Damage, Vulnerability 5 and Stunned, which cannot be removed by any means, until the start of your second turn. At the start of your second turn, you perform two special moves in row, instead of a standard action. You can use any combination of your chosen special moves.

[-5] Reach out and hug somepony

You deal 1d12 to a single target for this round and the following two rounds and apply a stacking 2 Ongoing Damage for each round (up to 6 Ongoing damage, save ends). You are considered stunned whilst doing this.

Example of use:
A) Round 1: 1d12 + 2 ongoing damage. Round 2: 1d12 + 4 ongoing damage. Round 3: 1d12 + 6 ongoing damage.
B) Round 1: 1d12 + 2 ongoing. Round 2: 1d12 +4 ongoing. Enemy saves against ongoing, resetting it. Round 3: 1d12 + 2 ongoing damage.

[-2] Pony Pokey
Deal 1d4 damage to one enemy. If this ability kills or knocks the enemy unconscious, you gain 8 PiPs.

[-1] Poke of Death - At will
Deal 1 damage to an enemy. If the enemy is knocked unconscious, they cannot be revived or healed in any way, unless the player allows it. This effect transfers to other encounters and outside of combat, lasting for 24 hours. Using this ability only allows a maximum of 3 damage to be inflected, regardless of Vulnerability or any other effects that increase damage.

(e.g. if you have +1d12 damage to your next attack, from meditate, and the enemy has Vulnerability 6, you still only deal 3 damage with Poke of Death.)



Last edited by Zarhon on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Videocrazy on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:54 am

Philadelphus wrote:A crazy talent off the top of my head:
[+4] Time Warp - Free action
You jump to last place in the turn order.

This is stronger than you might think. If you're in any place other than last in the initiative order, simply use this before the enemy in last place's turn ends, and you've got a character with an additional 4 PiPs and who's turn has come sooner than before.

[-3] Share the pain
Choose two enemy targets. Whenever one of the two is damaged, the other target rolls the same dice amount as damage for itself. Area attacks that hit both of them at once do not affect this.

(e.g. target enemy A & B. Attack hits enemy A for 1d8 damage. Enemy A rolls 4 damage. Then, enemy B has to roll 1d8 damage for itself as well. Enemy B rolls 6. Same effect works in reverse. )

Should Enemy B have a Special Move of their own, could this move trigger it since they're the one rolling?

[-X] Ultimate Sacrifice
You lose all your hit points, reducing yourself to 0 hp. You cannot be revived or healed, or otherwise act for the next two rounds. You are also Weakened for the rest of the fight (Removable only with special abilities). In exchange, all your allies are revived, restored to full health, and gain the amount of PiPs you paid when you used the ability. This ability can only be used once, by only one player, per encounter.

If you're at 0 HP, and can't be revived or healed, what's the point of including "or otherwise act for the next two rounds"? Or do you mean that after that point, you can be revived and/or healed?

[-4] Pony Pokey
Deal 1d4 damage to one enemy. If this ability kills or knocks the enemy unconscious, you gain 8 PiPs.

That's a really expensive move. I know the payoff is worth it, but unless you're fighting minions (and even then, you better hope they don't have resistance) or somehow know the exact value of an enemy's HP, it's a complete waste.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Zarhon on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:07 am

Videocrazy wrote:1) Should Enemy B have a Special Move of their own, could this move trigger it since they're the one rolling?

2) If you're at 0 HP, and can't be revived or healed, what's the point of including "or otherwise act for the next two rounds"? Or do you mean that after that point, you can be revived and/or healed?

3) That's a really expensive move. I know the payoff is worth it, but unless you're fighting minions (and even then, you better hope they don't have resistance) or somehow know the exact value of an enemy's HP, it's a complete waste.

1) That would make absolutely no sense. Editing to clarify: The other target gets rolled a seperate, but equal amount of damage dice as the first (In other words, you roll another time for that specific enemy). A d12 for target 1, and a d12 for target 2.

As far as triggering special attacks goes, I'm not sure how it works right now. If you roll a 2d12 for an attack, and get 12 on both dies, does that mean you get two special attacks, or just one? If you get just one, then I suppose "Share the Pain" would have a limit of only 1 special attack triggering off it, to prevent it from being overpowered.

Also, I'm pretty sure enemies don't have special moves. Otherwise an enemy critically punching itself from paranoia would allow it to trigger a special move in retaliation.

2) Both. I added the "no actions" rule to ensure his allies/enemies cannot force or trigger an action from him in some way, despite being unrevivable/unhealable, or the player himself triggering something from his own knockout. A bard, for example, could in in theory trigger a Special Move via "IT IS NOT THIS DAY!". A necromancer enemy might have an ability that raises them to fight against his teammates.

Once the player uses the ability, he's pretty much useless (both to himself and his allies) for a period two rounds. After that period, he can be revived/healed by his teammates and act normally. In fact, using the ability poses a serious risk of dying, if an enemy targets your unconscious pony, as your allies cannot heal you.

After all, it's hardly a sacrifice if you can just get up right afterwards.

3) Yeah, it's a bit tricky to balance. It *is* meant to be used to fight or finish off weakling or minion enemies. Since enemies can become bloodied (DMs have to announce it), you can roughly estimate the amount of hp an enemy has left. There's also the fact that you can still boost the ability with stuff like "Meditate", or applying Vulnerability beforehand.

I could make it cost [-2], or [-1], but then the pip gain might be ludicrous. Three minions with this ability would be enough to get a cast of "It's over!"! And dont even get me started on if someone uses "Nightmare's Aura". Stairc would have to take a look at this.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Videocrazy on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:04 pm

Also, I'm pretty sure enemies don't have special moves. Otherwise an enemy critically punching itself from paranoia would allow it to trigger a special move in retaliation.

I mention this because a solo creature did have a critical ability. Derpy's Lightning, to be specific. Granted, this one was a solo creature, but it could apply if said creature could summon minions.

I could make it cost [-2], or [-1], but then the pip gain might be ludicrous. Three minions with this ability would be enough to get a cast of "It's over!"! And dont even get me started on if someone uses "Nightmare's Aura". Stairc would have to take a look at this.

*coughfiveteenzombieponiesunconvincingcough*
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  SilentBelle on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:52 pm

Philadelphus wrote:A crazy talent off the top of my head:
[+4] Time Warp - Free action
You jump to last place in the turn order.

Yeah, this would probably be crazy broken with a teammate at the beginning of the turn order with Quick Tempo.

And a similar idea for some sort of passive combat talent (maybe a trait?):
Slow Starter
You always go last in the initiative order, but begin combat with an additional 4 PiPs.

It would be crazy broken with 2 allies that had that move. They could make an infinite combo, just swapping places with each other. Generally placement-arranging moves tend to be overpowered unless they have a negative pip value and are not free actions.
Quick Tempo had faced the same problem when it was being created.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:55 pm

Isn't it just crazy-broken already? I mean, it's basically 4 free pips without even a standard action required. That's just... Yeah. *laughs*

Oddly, moving down lower in the initiative order can often speed your next turn, since you can skip below the creature's whose turn it is. Example...


Creature A
Player
Creature B
Creature C

If the player moves to the end of the initiative order here, his turn will actually come sooner than otherwise.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Zarhon on Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:05 am

These are based off "Judo Throw" and a certain game series.

[-6] Suplex / Meteor Strike
You grab an enemy and jump high into the air with him. You are both removed from combat for one round. Creatures removed from combat cannot affect any other creature in the battle with combat talents or be affected by any combat talents. The enemy is dealt 3d10+5 damage.

[-4] Leap
You jump out of the fight, causing you to be removed from combat until the end of your next round. While removed from combat, you cannot affect any other creature in the battle with combat talents or be affected by any combat talents. Upon returning to combat, choose an enemy target. That target gets dealt 2d10+5 damage. This ability cannot be used consecutively.

[-10] High Leap / Aerial Assault
You jump out of the fight, causing you to be removed from combat for three rounds. While removed from combat, you cannot affect any other creature in the battle with combat talents or be affected by any combat talents. During that time, you deal 1d12+5 damage to all enemies, for each round. Upon returning to combat, you gain Weakened (save ends).

This one I can't decide on which variant to choose from...

[-8] Collateral Shot
Variant A:
Choose a target enemy and deal 3d12 damage to them, then flip a coin. If you win, deal the same amount of damage to adjacent enemies and half that amount to all other, non-adjacent enemy targets. If the original target is incapacitated/killed by the attack, you win the coin flip by default.

Variant B:
Choose a target enemy and deal 3d12 damage to them, then flip a coin. If you win, deal the same amount of damage to adjacent enemies. If the original target is incapacitated/killed by the attack, you win the coin flip by default, and the damage is dealt to all enemies instead of just adjacent ones.



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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Philadelphus on Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:41 am

SilentBelle wrote:It would be crazy broken with 2 allies that had that move.
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Isn't it just crazy-broken already?

Isn't the thread title “Absolutely Crazy Ideas”? Smile I figured this was a good place to just brainstorm and let the polishing come later. This particular move definitely works better as a trait and I've modified and reposted it in the appropriate thread, but I actually posted it here before the traits expansion came out.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:43 am

Philadelphus wrote:
SilentBelle wrote:It would be crazy broken with 2 allies that had that move.
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Isn't it just crazy-broken already?

Isn't the thread title “Absolutely Crazy Ideas”? Smile I figured this was a good place to just brainstorm and let the polishing come later. This particular move definitely works better as a trait and I've modified and reposted it in the appropriate thread, but I actually posted it here before the traits expansion came out.

*laughs* very true!
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  tygerburningbright on Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:28 pm

a set that is either way broken or super weak... third mix

Magnus

[+3] Zap
Deal 2 damage to target

[0] Burn
Deal 7 damage to target

[-2] Ice
Deal 5 damage to target and target gains Vulnerability 2

[-3] Gravity
Deal 9 damage to target and weaken it ( save ends)

[-5] Wind
Deal 13 damage to target and reset target's PiPs to 0

[-16] Meteor
Split ,in increments of 7, 70 damage between 1-10 targets.



Last edited by tygerburningbright on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Videocrazy on Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:13 pm

tygerburningbright wrote:a set that is either way broken or super weak...

Magnus

[+3] Zap
Deal 2 damage to target

[0] Burn
Deal 4 damage to target

[-1] Ice
Deal 6 damage to target

[-3] Gravity
Deal 9 damage to target and weaken it

[-5] Wind
Deal 13 damage to target and reset target's PiPs to 0

[-16] Meteor
Split ,in increments of 7, 70 damage between one to ten targets.

Well, I'm not sure about the last three, but I can tell you that Burn and Ice are way underpowered. Even in terms of absolute damage, there's a much stronger combat talent:

[+1] Knife in the Dark
Choose One: Deal 6 damage to one target creature; or deal 4 damage to two target creatures.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  SilentBelle on Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:55 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Philadelphus wrote:
SilentBelle wrote:It would be crazy broken with 2 allies that had that move.
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Isn't it just crazy-broken already?

Isn't the thread title “Absolutely Crazy Ideas”? Smile I figured this was a good place to just brainstorm and let the polishing come later. This particular move definitely works better as a trait and I've modified and reposted it in the appropriate thread, but I actually posted it here before the traits expansion came out.

*laughs* very true!

I love the ideas that pop out and seeing what we can do to make them balanced. Keep 'em coming and I'll try my best to critique them.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  tygerburningbright on Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:24 pm

Well, I'm not sure about the last three, but I can tell you that Burn and Ice are way underpowered. Even in terms of absolute damage, there's a much stronger combat talent:

duely noted and adjusting.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Philadelphus on Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:34 pm

Another sure-to-be-imbalanced idea:

[-3] Healing Pulse
All allies may choose one of their save-ends effects to be cured instantly. For an additional 3 PiPs, 2 effects may be cured.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  SilentBelle on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:09 pm

Philadelphus wrote:Another sure-to-be-imbalanced idea:

[-3] Healing Pulse
All allies may choose one of their save-ends effects to be cured instantly. For an additional 3 PiPs, 2 effects may be cured.

Change it to target one ally, then It looks quite alright pips-wise. As for the kicker cost, I'd say change it to: pay an additional 2 pips to end 2 effects. It's much harder to balance Party wide effects because, well, I'm not sure how large your party is going to be.

However if you keep it to party-wide then pump the pips up to [-6] and the kicker cost could be [-3]. I like the single target version more because it would definitely see more use in combat by a long shot.

This also leads me to another healing idea:

[-3] Healing Circle
Heal target ally and all adjacent allies for 2d8 + 3 hit points.

After all I feel there aren't too many nifty healing abilities.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Videocrazy on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:25 pm

[-1] Ice
Deal 5 damage to target and stun it (save ends)

No. Just... no. Stun is way too powerful to be a -1 ability.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  SilentBelle on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:29 am

tygerburningbright wrote:a set that is either way broken or super weak... third mix

Magnus

[+3] Zap
Deal 2 damage to target

[0] Burn
Deal 7 damage to target

[-2] Ice
Deal 5 damage to target and target gains Vulnerability 2

[-3] Gravity
Deal 9 damage to target and weaken it ( save ends)

[-5] Wind
Deal 13 damage to target and reset target's PiPs to 0

[-16] Meteor
Split ,in increments of 7, 70 damage between 1-10 targets.


While I like the idea behind these abilities, they are definitely missing something... Maybe it's that they are too exact on everything. The move will be the same every time you use it, it's just so contrary to most of the other attacks out there. Also these abilities all work better as stand-alone talents, by which I mean that if I were to choose seven of my combat talents, I would then choose one of these (probably Ice or Burn) to top off my list. There is very little incentive to choose more than 2 of these abilities for your character, probably because they are all single target (except Meteor), solid damage, and some add one neat side-effect. So in the battles where one would be effective, then they would all be effective.

Although it could be that I just enjoy combos far too much.

Also these moves don't allow for you to even have a chance at activating your special move.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  tygerburningbright on Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:59 pm

SilentBelle wrote:
tygerburningbright wrote:a set that is either way broken or super weak... third mix

Magnus

[+3] Zap
Deal 2 damage to target

[0] Burn
Deal 7 damage to target

[-2] Ice
Deal 5 damage to target and target gains Vulnerability 2

[-3] Gravity
Deal 9 damage to target and weaken it ( save ends)

[-5] Wind
Deal 13 damage to target and reset target's PiPs to 0

[-16] Meteor
Split ,in increments of 7, 70 damage between 1-10 targets.


While I like the idea behind these abilities, they are definitely missing something... Maybe it's that they are too exact on everything. The move will be the same every time you use it, it's just so contrary to most of the other attacks out there. Also these abilities all work better as stand-alone talents, by which I mean that if I were to choose seven of my combat talents, I would then choose one of these (probably Ice or Burn) to top off my list. There is very little incentive to choose more than 2 of these abilities for your character, probably because they are all single target (except Meteor), solid damage, and some add one neat side-effect. So in the battles where one would be effective, then they would all be effective.

Although it could be that I just enjoy combos far too much.

Also these moves don't allow for you to even have a chance at activating your special move.

It is contray to most other move but that is the point and all of them are weaker than other moves of the same cost (except burn and maybe wind). You have a point in that they are all more or less the same. The denial of specials is entended as rolling the highest number is far less likely than just takeing a exact number.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Philadelphus on Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:35 pm

SilentBelle wrote:
Philadelphus wrote:Another sure-to-be-imbalanced idea:

[-3] Healing Pulse
All allies may choose one of their save-ends effects to be cured instantly. For an additional 3 PiPs, 2 effects may be cured.

Change it to target one ally, then It looks quite alright pips-wise. As for the kicker cost, I'd say change it to: pay an additional 2 pips to end 2 effects. It's much harder to balance Party wide effects because, well, I'm not sure how large your party is going to be.

However if you keep it to party-wide then pump the pips up to [-6] and the kicker cost could be [-3]. I like the single target version more because it would definitely see more use in combat by a long shot.
Hmm...ok, how about two versions?
[-3]Healing Pulse
Target ally is cured of a save-ends condition of their choice. For an additional 2 PiPs, they may choose 2 effects to end.

[-5]Healing Surge
All allies may make a saving throw against one of their save-ends conditions, of their choice.

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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  SilentBelle on Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:51 pm

Philadelphus wrote:
SilentBelle wrote:
Philadelphus wrote:Another sure-to-be-imbalanced idea:

[-3] Healing Pulse
All allies may choose one of their save-ends effects to be cured instantly. For an additional 3 PiPs, 2 effects may be cured.

Change it to target one ally, then It looks quite alright pips-wise. As for the kicker cost, I'd say change it to: pay an additional 2 pips to end 2 effects. It's much harder to balance Party wide effects because, well, I'm not sure how large your party is going to be.

However if you keep it to party-wide then pump the pips up to [-6] and the kicker cost could be [-3]. I like the single target version more because it would definitely see more use in combat by a long shot.
Hmm...ok, how about two versions?
[-3]Healing Pulse
Target ally is cured of a save-ends condition of their choice. For an additional 2 PiPs, they may choose 2 effects to end.

[-5]Healing Surge
All allies may make a saving throw against one of their save-ends conditions, of their choice.


Hmm, Healing Surge in this case isn't good enough, because they make a saving throw instead of being instant-cured, so there's still a 45% chance of failure, lower it to [-3] and it should be balanced.
On a second look at Healing Pulse, maybe lower the cost to [-2] and keep the kicker [-2]. It's just that I'm comparing it to this move:

[-4] Benediction of Maladies
Transfer all (save-ends) status effects on target ally to target enemy.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Jason Shadow on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:07 pm

An interesting (albeit potentially overpowered) idea I had, potentially to be paired with some sort of gambler/risk-taker moveset.

[+4] Ace in the Hole
Special: You cannot use this ability unless A) you have used all other moves you have brought into this encounter at least once, B) you have a total of zero PiPs, and C) you are at 5 HP or below.
Choose any one of your [-] talents you didn’t bring into battle this encounter. You may immediately use that ability without paying the PiP cost. After that, that move replaces this one for the rest of the encounter, and you still have to pay the PiP cost to use it again.
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Jason Shadow
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  The Warrior of Many Faces on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:14 pm

Jason Shadow wrote:An interesting (albeit potentially overpowered) idea I had, potentially to be paired with some sort of gambler/risk-taker moveset.

[+4] Ace in the Hole
Special: You cannot use this ability unless A) you have used all other moves you have brought into this encounter at least once, B) you have a total of zero PiPs, and C) you are at 5 HP or below.
Choose any one of your [-] talents you didn’t bring into battle this encounter. You may immediately use that ability without paying the PiP cost. After that, that move replaces this one for the rest of the encounter, and you still have to pay the PiP cost to use it again.

Overpowered? I doubt it, not with those conditions. This is a pretty interesting idea, but unless you're playing in a Stairc game Laughing, the likelihood of this coming up is fairly low.
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

Post  Videocrazy on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:12 pm

Jason Shadow wrote:An interesting (albeit potentially overpowered) idea I had, potentially to be paired with some sort of gambler/risk-taker moveset.

[+4] Ace in the Hole
Special: You cannot use this ability unless A) you have used all other moves you have brought into this encounter at least once, B) you have a total of zero PiPs, and C) you are at 5 HP or below.
Choose any one of your [-] talents you didn’t bring into battle this encounter. You may immediately use that ability without paying the PiP cost. After that, that move replaces this one for the rest of the encounter, and you still have to pay the PiP cost to use it again.

How would this interact with Open Options, since Open Options brings in a different combat talent in?
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Re: Absolutely Crazy Ideas

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