A Brand New System - Official Announcement

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:59 pm

Calm down Xel. I'm trying to give comprehensive answers rather than give specific numbers for two reasons.

1) So that people can apply it to a broad ruling, instead of just one specific answer.

2) I haven't been 100% sure I understand what you're asking in all situations with the specific numbers. If you think you're having trouble being 100% sure on how to apply my answers, imagine how it is to try to make a definite ruling on a question, when you aren't 100% sure what's being asked. It makes much more sense to state the relevant rule as clearly as possible and let people interpret the answer to their specific questions. Then, if there's still confusion, they can ask for further clarification.

It seems like my answer got you to the right conclusion, the 28 damage getting through, so don't worry about it too much.

A thing with resist 2 and vuln 1 should prevent the first 2 damage, then take 1 additional damage if any more gets through. So yes, 29 in your scenario.

I'm not so sure what's confusing you, so it's hard to clear it up.


Last edited by Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  sunbeam on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:01 pm

Dan, I should point out that after you give the broad explanation of the rules, it is very straightforward to append "So, yes, you would do X damage in this specific situation" to the end of the post. That what someone is directly searching for, however much the rest of us benefit from a greater explanation of the rules.
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:07 pm

I actually just finished editing in an additional comment about that.

The thing is, communication works both ways. If you're not 100% sure on how my general-answer applies to your specific question, maybe I'm not 100% sure I understand how your specific question applies to the general rules. It's quite possible to give wrong answers in this case. It's better to focus on explaining the general concept, with lots of examples when possible (I think anyone reading any rules I've written is familiar with how much I like using examples).

If I'm not 100% clear on what you're asking though, I can't be sure I'm giving the right answer. Xel cleared things up in his panic-post, so I could give a clear answer. If the general principle, as you had no trouble applying, was enough - that would have been fine. If it isn't, you can always ask for additional clarity. I don't think I've ever refused to answer such a request.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:20 pm

The reasoning for the panic post was because the broad answers weren't helping me unlike how clear cut ones would have done in their place, also I couldn't say for sure why you were only giving broad answers and not a non-broad answer along with a clear cut "yes for example in your question's events it would do blah-blah-blah" cause just having that added on would've only added to the clearlity so made me assume the worse to why you weren't doing it, yet also hope it was nothing more than a simple misunderstanding. Thank you for giving them I do value them none the less. It was very helpful information. :3

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Doc pseudopolis on Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:15 pm

Thank you for clearing up my confusion earlier.
I do have a few questions regarding the Spellblade basic powers.
With the Spellblade traits mentioning the next single target attack power used the turn the trait is used does that apply to the basic spellblade powers or do they apply until you next use a single target attack power?
Also regardless of the previous if you mange to use multiple spellblade powers and then a single target attack power how do the spellblade powers interact with each other? Specfically Spark blade, Flame blade and Cursed blade.
Powers for reference:

[-2] Sparkblade - Minor Action (Bladespell)
The next Single Attack Power you use deals an additional 1d10 damage to its target.

[-3] Flameblade - Minor Action (Bladespell)
The next Single Attack Power you use deals an additional 6 damage to its target, and causes its target to suffer 3 Ongoing Damage (Save ends).

[-3] Cursed Blade - Minor Action (Bladespell, Affliction)
The next Single Attack Power you use also causes its target to suffer 7 Ongoing Damage (save ends).

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:20 pm

Sure thing.

1) All spellblade stuff used to only work on the next power you used that turn. This was expanded due to some very well-argued points from players (particularly Sunbeam, I believe) to be the next one you use period - mainly to open up additional options for reaction-based builds. It seems the traits missed out on this update. I'll check that now and fix it if that's the case.

EDIT - Yep, we missed that. Should be fixed now. Thanks, and let me know if I missed anything.

2) Just add all their effects together. If you had sparkblade, flameblade and cursed blade used - your next single attack would deal an additional 1d10+6 damage and 10 ongoing damage. The spellblade powers are designed to be a mix-and-match way to build custom powers.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Crystalite on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:49 pm

If this is the wrong thread, I apologize.

Can you put your Expert bonus on a Defense?
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Xel Unknown on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:58 pm

While I think that it works... It's kinda a silly action to do so. But if somebody wants to do that, they should be able to do it! :3

Also this topic is totally the write topic to put this simple question for the new system. XD
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:02 am

You can't as-written, and it can lead to some painful gameplay (long answer on why). But I'd be fine houseruling that if you really want to.

Also, got a chance to go over Wanderust with the managing producer for FFG's roleplaying games and get his input. It was slated for 15 minutes, but we dove into it and went on for an hour. It was awesome.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:17 am

One question? WHERE does it say that? Just point me where I should look to find that info of where it said in black & white that you can't do that. And what is your reasoning to having that?
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  sunbeam on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:25 am

My personal rules-lawyering reasoning for this is that the term is Defenses, not Defensive Skills, and you can only make a skill an expert skill (and I'm 90% certain that that wording choice was intentional), but I'm not certain what the official reply would be. Looking at the handbook, though, it does draw a very clear divide between skills and defenses and brings up expert skills before defenses are even mentioned.
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:35 am

Sunbeam's right. Sadly don't have time to go into details on the reasoning for why it's not great gameplay to be able to have expert skill on a defense, in general (it's fine in specific groups). I've got a lot of design work to do for FFG tonight.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:01 am

Alright that makes logical sense... Don't agree with it, but it makes good logical sense.
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  ZamuelNow on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:09 am

Considering I'm in the "assumed it wasn't rules legal but didn't have a problem with it myself" camp, my assumption is that it's not exciting or dynamic gameplay.  Unless you're blatantly trying to play Superman outside of battle and jumping in front of every bullet, there's limited ability to use an Expert Skill on a Defense.  Furthermore, defensive concepts can sometimes hit thresholds since once you hit a certain level of survival, any more is wasted.  These reasons are a lot of why most don't take an ES on Endurance in LL/PT.  On a more offensive minded Skill, the more spectacular aspects of the crit can be better played out.
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:46 am

Personally I've seen A LOT of people put the cutie mark on their endurance... Even believe I did once or twice. But I guess there is some reason why it's not done that much... I mean it is a reactionary skill... So yeah. *shrug* Still say it can be use in an active context. But is harder to do that.
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:50 am

I've seen some people put it on endurance too, in the older system. I also got regular complaints from a number of those people. The thing with reactive stuff like endurance is that is only exists as a preventative measure, which requires GMs to throw the appropriate amount of stuff for you to ignore with your bonuses. Heal had a similar issue, hence the affliction system seeking to make heal much more broadly useful.

So you got complaints from people investing into insurance that doesn't pay off, while getting outperformed by people taking more proactive skills... But they feel their character SHOULD have high endurance and so on. Hence splitting the points into skills and defenses, so you can take what you should have flavorfully without being punished for it.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Doc pseudopolis on Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:52 am

I can understand the reasoning for both, situations needing those two skills rarely come up unless you have bad luck or specifically look for them
Also a question about an interesting thought regarding the Stalk the Kill hunter basic power.
While it cannot be used on consecutive turns can it be used multiple times in one turn if you have the standard actions for it, for example if you use the Going Nova power of the Nova feature.
basic powers for reference:

[+1] Stalk the Kill - Standard Action (Self)
You are dazed until the start of your next turn. You may take an additional standard action on your next turn. You cannot use this Power two turns in a row.
[-1] Going Nova - Minor Action [1/Short Rest]
You may take two additional standard actions this turn. You cannot use this ability on your first or second turn of a battle.
Edit: Looked at Stalk the Kill again and remembered that it dazes you as part, so it would not be usable more than once per turn anyway.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:58 am

Yep, your edit found the clause we used to make sure that it didn't go too crazy.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Crystalite on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:46 pm

You could still get four Standard actions in one turn that way.... And then use Quickdraw four times... Hm. What minor action would we like to have eight of with 17 energy? (Assuming you had none to begin with.)

Oh! How about a Bladespell? (Forget what the one I'm thinking of is called, though.) And then Heartseeker is a Minor attack, isn't it? This could be a fun build.

One Defense Experts... In the older system I have an Endurance/Weathercrafting build that's really fun and broken. I'm also playing a Will Expert in Zamuel's Wanderlust campaign. But...

A) It is combat heavy. Either skills/defenses will be entirely irrelevant, or being able to push on in spite of all else is going to be enormously helpful.

B) It fits the character. I am very much about the RP over the character's mechanical abilities; Calm Strike (the expert in question) never gives up. EVER. He's not supposed to be all that fantastic at anything else; but if it comes to determination I don't want to ruin a touching RP moment because I don't have a decent stat for it.

When I make characters, I don't worry about effectiveness; Pony Tales was already broken, and I have no desire to try and break Wanderlust. But rather, I ask; what is going to be my character's defining moment? When will the character rise up for thier Crowning Moment of Awesome? And I build them around that. For everything else, "Good enough" will do.

So, while I see the point made, I think that No Defense Experts should be an optional rule... Oh. Wait. It is! Because my GM is awesome and understands this. Why did I say all of that?
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:01 pm

1) How are you getting 4 standard actions in one turn exactly? Not sure I followed that.

2) You can still buff up your defenses and sink tons of points into one of them. However, expert defenses also create additional problems beyond what was already discussed - as it can be VERY hard for a GM to figure out what difficulty for defenses to set if the effects scale too much - which leads the extra points to being irrelevant or makes it nigh-impossible for everyone else to succeed (if balanced to the super-defense guy). There are even some more problems on top of this.

In short, it's not great gameplay for most adventures and comes with additional issues. However, every group is different and every group has custom-needs. That's why the section on house-ruling is so prominent. We can only design for the majority, we can't design for each specific group. So your houserule of using expert skill on a defense is totally great.

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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Crystalite on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:52 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:1) How are you getting 4 standard actions in one turn exactly?

Stalk the Kill+Going Nova, mentioned a couple posts ago.
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:35 pm

In theory those moves would combo... But unless you are built around doing Bursts you are basically hindering yourself.
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Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:12 pm

Ah, yes - I thought it was just with basic powers for some reason. 4 actions in one turn is fine in principle.

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