Upcoming Expansions

Xel Unknown wrote:Ah, I thought you were more negative and allowed more than I had first assumed and also assumed that more games were let in with the rule-set stuff... I was mistaken on that.

Still say, just try the stuff yourself... Don't cling to what we've got, just cause it makes it easy for you. If anyone who doesn't like the new idea of making your own race as a character. Just explain WHY such a thing is a bad idea, after all it wont change you from using the defaults. Those are still going to be in the book after all, as guidelines for the newbies, right?

A guideline for everyone, absolutely. The only thing this will change is that pegasai will be able to take things like Applejack of All Trades. DMs will also be able to let players custom-build their own races without worried that they'll be broken *if they want to, this will be clearly highlighted as an expansion*.

And I'm pretty sure it won't destroy the game. After all, it's already happened in Living Legends - a game that's still running just fine. I'm running a game of that every week and no destruction yet. =)

It's not breaking the game that I'm concerned about. Its the watering down of the original concepts to make them unappealing for those who want to play them. If someone wants to play a show accurate pegasus, then that's great, but he won't be special, or even needed- not with the Unicorn and two Earth Ponies in the group that can fly and control weather anyway. And on top of that, two of them can use magic. Hell, the one unicorn that uses a spell to fly- constantly, whenever, without need for a charge or prep time- uses Its Witchcraft to boost its capability and can fly at twice the spped of sound and turn on a time, so half the time the Pegasus- the show accurate, pro flyer pegasus, who wanted to be one for that purpose alone- isn't even the first choice for flying jobs.

I would give another example, but let's be honest, flight is the one everyone will do this with. Flight and Magic. Alicorns.

If you fear that, I say you should suggest something that'll MAKE them special!

The pegasi won't be special and unique as the flyer/weather controller with two other pegasi in the group either! Guess we should make a rule that only lets one player play each race!

Edit: And like Xel said, make your character special and you don't have to worry about things like that.

Perhaps we should just put this issue to a vote and see what everyone says as a whole.

Since when have we gotten votes?
Edit: And it's not like changing the official rules changes what GM's will and won't allow. You can always house rule to be using the old style.

I say a vote is good too. I vote for the expansion to be optional. The way it is now being the official way, and the expansion for those who want to use it AND the dm allows it.

And to make things interesting and ponies more unique, there was that idea about giving a flavor bonus depending on backstory.

You do realize that there is a poll feature on these forums. And in responce to your edited statement even the most creative of Game Masters stop at changeing core mechanics.

I agrue, look at a character that has Magic and Flight, yet is in NO way an alicorn like everyone be complainin' that is the logical outcome of flyign magic users...

Everyone meet Zeela the Pony Also everyone take a look at her ponysona version: Zeela the Unlucky

Really Tyger? How come Facey face and Xel are letting me use the not-yet official racial stuff then? Are they more creative than the most creative? *confused* Actually Xel's game is almost entirely about changing the core mechanics.

I don't have any issue with voting. I was just pointing out that we've yet to have a vote about anything official that I can recall. Mostly Stairc tests out what works and doesn't and decides. And I don't have a problem with that as, popularity without testing is an inferior method of determining rules than actually testing things out.

Okay, nopony bite my head off please, since I'm genuinely curious, but why exactly are people so bent out of shape again? I seem to recall Stairc said this was planned to be an optional expansion anyway.

Besides, I have yet to see a solid reason why this wouldn't work. As Ramsus pointed out, this doesn't make your race less unique than it otherwise would have been; there is always a chance someone will pick your race and make you less crucial for such tasks. I don't see any truly broken combos either, soooo...

Yeah I don't see the need for a vote either, really. If he wants to do it he'll do it. I won't like it. I'll enjoy the game less, because my characters will be garbage compared to "Libertine, the Mechanic Earth Pony who developed a flying contraption that allows her to outrace any Pegasus. Also, she's from an ancient Unicorn bloodline with such a deep connection to nature that she can use magic despite not having a horn. She can break the fourth wall and is stronger than most, due to her EP physique being augmented with mechanical engineering. She can run faster, jump higher, think smarter, cast spells, fly AND as part of her backstory was knighted by Princess Celestia, and has all of the accoutrement to come with it. Oh, and hey, she's also half changeling and has razor sharp teeth, because, why not."

Since this is going to be a thing, can I just call dibs on spots in games where the DM houserules against this? I'd like the opportunity to still play the game and have fun with it.

But as for suggestions I'd LIKE to see, how about an official Foal Template. I'd like to see that.

As usual, it was just the Vocal Minority that seems to control the news these days, but everyone else went nope on a poll.

I think the reason for this searing debate is that Ramsus invented the system, of which the idea was marvellous, yet the execution left some things to be desired. There appears to have been a mistake over whether he wanted this to be mandatory, resulting in nasty arguments from those that didn't like it for whatever reason. Then Dan pulled the rig out from us again by ignoring everyone and making it an expansion. This may still have some issues, which have been raised, but as we don't know how closely the StairC rules follow the Ransus edition, we can't make judgement.




And it seems like there's a dibs already for my game and I haven't even announced it yet. What fun.

Bronymous wrote:Yeah I don't see the need for a vote either, really. If he wants to do it he'll do it. I won't like it. I'll enjoy the game less, because my characters will be garbage compared to "Libertine, the Mechanic Earth Pony who developed a flying contraption that allows her to outrace any Pegasus. Also, she's from an ancient Unicorn bloodline with such a deep connection to nature that she can use magic despite not having a horn. She can break the fourth wall and is stronger than most, due to her EP physique being augmented with mechanical engineering. She can run faster, jump higher, think smarter, cast spells, fly AND as part of her backstory was knighted by Princess Celestia, and has all of the accoutrement to come with it. Oh, and hey, she's also half changeling and has razor sharp teeth, because, why not."

Since this is going to be a thing, can I just call dibs on spots in games where the DM houserules against this? I'd like the opportunity to still play the game and have fun with it.

But as for suggestions I'd LIKE to see, how about an official Foal Template. I'd like to see that.

Oh, okay, so you don't trust the people running the game to veto such ridiculous things? Really, Bronymous, we don't want those kinds of things any more than you do. But I have yet to see evidence that this would force the Faust to accept anything that's blatantly ridiculous. Rule 0 is still in full effect.

I posted an explanation to your confusion, Whomphy

Appkes wrote:As usual, it was just the Vocal Minority that seems to control the news these days, but everyone else went nope on a poll.

I think the reason for this searing debate is that Ramsus invented the system, of which the idea was marvellous, yet the execution left some things to be desired. There appears to have been a mistake over whether he wanted this to be mandatory, resulting in nasty arguments from those that didn't like it for whatever reason. Then Dan pulled the rig out from us again by ignoring everyone and making it an expansion. This may still have some issues, which have been raised, but as we don't know how closely the StairC rules follow the Ransus edition, we can't make judgement.

Ah.

Also, I can't find said poll. Where exactly is it supposed to be? If it's been taken down already, I'd argue that the results of the poll may not be fully accurate given that it was taken down before I even knew it existed.

Guys, can we please cool down a little bit? we're getting worked up over something that hasn't even happened yet. Bronymous, your worries are legit- I'm afraid of characters min-maxing the heck out of their characters too- but you're example is a little bit reaching. And yes, if the system isn't broke why fix it, but when a system such as this is meant to depend on flavoring utilities, combat talents, traits, items, etc etc, why must races be pigeonholed into one thing. (Yes I paraphrased dan's first post, but it isn't as eloquent as it is there)
Both sides have pros and cons, but we did miss something in Dan's post. they're expansions, not additions to the player's handbook. It's like telling your party, "I don't want you guys to use the Races in Equestria Expansion. Ponies only" or "Try and keep things to the handbook and not the Talent Show" and "Don't use Equine power, players. I'm not entirely fond of you guys trying to hammer out It's Over every battle". Expansions, if my memory of tabletop games is right, are optional.

We spoken! You are an excellent advocate of peace, and more should listen to you.

Imho, I wouldn't mind it being the default (not that I ever expected Stairc to think it should be) and the restrictive version be the option just because I think GMs are more likely to be lenient if something is stamped as the default than the option. Otherwise, as long as it's officially on the table I'm happy.

As for Bronymous' concerns, well I just find them silly. Just because someone has more options doesn't mean if they pick more varied and diverse ones they'll be better than someone who focuses in one area. There aren't any Utility or Racial trait ability combinations that I know of that result in something broken and a GM would likely veto anything that was. There's actually no possible way to get the Uber Pony Bronymous describes. If you diversify that much it means somepony is going to be better than you at any of them if they focus on that.

As for the poll? Last I checked it was four for the old style (three of which we already all know who are) and the rest of the people are saying to stop freaking out and actually let Stairc show us what he has in mind and playtest it before you call for a popularity contest to determine the rules.

LoganAura wrote:Guys, can we please cool down a little bit? we're getting worked up over something that hasn't even happened yet. Bronymous, your worries are legit- I'm afraid of characters min-maxing the heck out of their characters too- but you're example is a little bit reaching. And yes, if the system isn't broke why fix it, but when a system such as this is meant to depend on flavoring utilities, combat talents, traits, items, etc etc, why must races be pigeonholed into one thing. (Yes I paraphrased dan's first post, but it isn't as eloquent as it is there)
Both sides have pros and cons, but we did miss something in Dan's post. they're expansions, not additions to the player's handbook. It's like telling your party, "I don't want you guys to use the Races in Equestria Expansion. Ponies only" or "Try and keep things to the handbook and not the Talent Show" and "Don't use Equine power, players. I'm not entirely fond of you guys trying to hammer out It's Over every battle". Expansions, if my memory of tabletop games is right, are optional.

Well-spoken, Logan.

LoganAura wrote:Guys, can we please cool down a little bit? we're getting worked up over something that hasn't even happened yet. Bronymous, your worries are legit- I'm afraid of characters min-maxing the heck out of their characters too- but you're example is a little bit reaching. And yes, if the system isn't broke why fix it, but when a system such as this is meant to depend on flavoring utilities, combat talents, traits, items, etc etc, why must races be pigeonholed into one thing. (Yes I paraphrased dan's first post, but it isn't as eloquent as it is there)
Both sides have pros and cons, but we did miss something in Dan's post. they're expansions, not additions to the player's handbook. It's like telling your party, "I don't want you guys to use the Races in Equestria Expansion. Ponies only" or "Try and keep things to the handbook and not the Talent Show" and "Don't use Equine power, players. I'm not entirely fond of you guys trying to hammer out It's Over every battle". Expansions, if my memory of tabletop games is right, are optional.

Ramsus wrote:Imho, I wouldn't mind it being the default (not that I ever expected Stairc to think it should be) and the restrictive version be the option just because I think GMs are more likely to be lenient if something is stamped as the default than the option. Otherwise, as long as it's officially on the table I'm happy.

As for Bronymous' concerns, well I just find them silly. Just because someone has more options doesn't mean if they pick more varied and diverse ones they'll be better than someone who focuses in one area. There aren't any Utility or Racial trait ability combinations that I know of that result in something broken and a GM would likely veto anything that was. There's actually no possible way to get the Uber Pony Bronymous describes. If you diversify that much it means somepony is going to be better than you at any of them if they focus on that.

As for the poll? Last I checked it was four for the old style (three of which we already all know who are) and the rest of the people are saying to stop freaking out and actually let Stairc show us what he has in mind and playtest it before you call for a popularity contest to determine the rules.

Two good posts, I support them both. And I only wish I had something to add...

I've tried writing posts before when there were arguements, but I did have a few issues :/
1.) I came off as trying to seem superior (Unintentional and as a newbie I definitely aren't)
2.) I don't really defend both sides well (I still see issues in that post >_> )
3.) I'm not a mod, so it comes off as interloping.

I have nothing constructive to add to this thread any more, so I'm off.

Appkes wrote:But as we don't know how closely the StairC rules follow the Ransus edition, we can't make judgement.

We'll be using a point-buy system to rank all the racial traits that people can choose from. Other than that, any similarity is purely coincidental. Just love the idea for players that want to play a race we haven't had time to make an official race for.

However, as mentioned, this will be a 100% optional expansion. The only thing we're putting in the core rules, which you can ignore at your leisure, is that there are no more racial prerequisites to take utility talents. So anyone could take Create Crazy Contraption if you want to.

On another note, it seems people have this idea that a flying character with create crazy contraption and Spike, take a letter - or some other mix of utility talents - is somehow going to break things. Playtesting shows this just isn't so, we've tested this extensively in Living Legends and nothing bad has happened.

And for ye old doomsayers out there - I promise one thing. The fact that we're so willing to change around the system if new playtesting results show up, and the fact we're so willing to try different ideas, means that if the system DOES implode as you fear; we'll just change it back. =)