Re: Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

Xel Unknown Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:04 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Xel Unknown wrote:Could we get a clear cute list of how Attack Stuff goes when one get's hurt by damage? Like: (Stuff that interrupts before the damage is done) -> X (base attack damage) 1/2 Weaken - X (Resist) (if zero at this point, no damage) + X (Vul) -> (reaction effects that trigger when you get hurt.)

Also I suggest a full list of how combat attack damage effecting stuff works would be a good addition to the Handbook... That sound like a good idea?

Effects fall into two categories - things that modify the base damage being dealt and things that trigger when damage WOULD be dealt or IS dealt.

Things like Weakness or getting a bonus to damage affects your base damage.

Then that base damage is thrown at a creature. First things happen that trigger when a creature WOULD take damage (resistance prevents damage before it's dealt - so it triggers first). Then things happen when the character DOES take damage (vulnerability, the player losing hp temporary hp and hp... etc).

This is nice... But I'd like something that said in a flowchart-like listing of timing when attacks happen like me and Ramsus guessed at. It's very nice and clear, just want it something a bit clearer to the point that I have to truely be blind to not have my mind fully be wrapped around how things go if somehow all of such effects were to happen at once and junk.

Hayatecooper Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:08 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:

No grappling in our system, no sir!

Thanks Stairc Razz

Wanted to ask, in terms of things like "The Stare" are you meant to be activating them before the roll or can it be after? Or when it comes down to it is it PH's choice? Dumb question, but it's been bugging me.

Fury of the Tempest Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:19 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote: We are killing such mechanics because they are unnecessarily complex and counter-intuitive. No grappling in our system, no sir!

Oh? What you gonna do?

And my bad in misunderstanding.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:47 pm

Hayatecooper wrote:*Cough* Maddening Mockery *Cough*

As that *instigates* a fight rather than decides one, it's borderline but acceptable.

Hayatecooper wrote:
Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:

No grappling in our system, no sir!

Thanks Stairc

Wanted to ask, in terms of things like "The Stare" are you meant to be activating them before the roll or can it be after? Or when it comes down to it is it PH's choice? Dumb question, but it's been bugging me.

It's up to the DM, but I almost always - unless there's some very, very specific reason - allow players to wait to see what they rolled. It just feels terrible to use The Stare then roll a nat 20... And that's not the feeling we want Magic Points to evoke.

**Philadelphus** Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:16 am

The Player's Handbook wrote:The Stare – Magic Interrupt
Trigger – You or an ally you can see makes a Persuasion check.
Effect – After seeing the result of the roll, you can choose to add a +20 bonus to the check.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:23 am

Indeed. I assumed he was asking a more general question about those kind of abilities - but the Stare does indeed specify. =)

**Philadelphus** Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:24 am

Ahh, fair enough then.

Zarhon Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:13 am

"Light Trap" questions:

1) The "light trap" states its "darkening" effect lasts only 1 minute, but that its blind can be released "at any time". Does that mean that after 1 minute, the darkness is gone, but you still have the object with light in it, which you can use to blind creatures at any time, or does it also fade/lose its light when the darkness fades, meaning you have to use the blind effect within 1 minute?
2) Does the object you store the light in act as a light-source itself, or can it be used as such?
3) What does "magical darkness" entail, mechanically? Automatic/critical failures to perception (unless you can see in darkness)? -5, -10, -15 penalties to actions requiring sight? Chances of tripping/bonking into objects? Inability to enter/start combat?
4) If you use the talent, and enter combat with a creature within the cloud (ponies with nightwatch/echolocation can do this), how does combat proceed? Nothing states the cloud prevents combat (just that you can't blind creatures with the object), and it lasts a full minute, which should be enough for a dozen rounds of combat.

I have to note a bit of impracticality with the talent's uses - What use is the blind effect if the area is already darkened (which by definition would blind anyone without echolocation/nightwatch in it), you have only 1 minute to utilize it (within said darkness) and the blind lasts only 5 seconds (and prematurely ends the 1 minute duration of the darkness)?

It doesn't seem very useful / versatile as such, and highly situational at best - In an emergency situation, you need 10 seconds to pull it off (making it impossible to use mid-combat), and the blind is a bit pointless due to its short duration (compare with "pyrotechnics", which doesn't have a duration on the blind) and its ability to blind allies by accident.

There's also little point in using it for stealth missions - A huge magical cloud of darkness forming out of nowhere is a dead giveaway that something weird is going on, and would likely raise an alarm.

It's a cool talent, but it seems incredibly impractical to use for its logical intended purpose. It probably needs a duration increase, flexibility with its blinding object, and/or more uses per day.

**Philadelphus** Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:38 pm

Zarhon wrote:compare with "pyrotechnics", which doesn't have a duration on the blind

I asked about this a page or two ago (though in relation to the racial ability Spyrotechnics), and still curious. Because as it is, it's an at-will ability to blind with no duration listed. With a preparation time of 6 seconds, you could potentially catch NPCs in an infinite blinding loop if the duration is longer than about 5 seconds.

**Paper Shadow** Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:38 am

When you attack with Headshot, "this attack does double damage on a 5 or a 6". With Midnight’s Blade, "you may have one of your attacks deal an extra 6 damage". So, onto my question, does the Midnight's Blade bonus also get doubled by Headshot, since it adds damage to the attack, as opposed to making its own separate attack? For example, if you roll a 5 on Headshot, and you apply Midnight's Blade to it, does your attack do 22 damage?

This question also applies to things like Divine Boon, which adds 1d8 damage to an allies next attack, and Predator's Sight, which adds 1d6 to your attacks against the prey...

Fury of the Tempest Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:30 pm

I don't think it does. It'll be a bit too powerful it does so. I think the talent resolves, doubles, and then you add any modifiers.

Ramsus Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:07 pm

I'll say two things of importance here. This is why I...

1) Said that doubling damage was never a good idea.

2) ... and other people wanted a simple flowchart or such of how effects that modify damage occur. In my current assumed model the damage bonus would get added and then doubled as it goes Addition/Subtract > Multiplication/Division > etc.

You can't have weakening go in a different order than damage doubling since they're the same effect just reversed. So either you make damage adding a workaround to weakening or doubling damage like this becomes crazy. Which is exactly why I said it should be avoided. We end up with this stupid lose/lose situation for the mechanics.

I would suggest fixing the wording so that Headshot adds +5 or +6 damage on a 5 or 6, not doubles damage.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:15 pm

[quote="Fury of the Tempest"]I don't think it does. It'll be a bit too powerful it does so. I think the talent resolves, doubles, and then you add any modifiers.[/quote

Yes and no. As written it does. As intended, it does not. The way we intended it to be was as you say, but the way we wrote it - it just doubles the damage of the full attack. I'll correct it when my math is done.

Fury of the Tempest Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:31 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Fury of the Tempest wrote:I don't think it does. It'll be a bit too powerful it does so. I think the talent resolves, doubles, and then you add any modifiers.

Yes and no. As written it does. As intended, it does not. The way we intended it to be was as you say, but the way we wrote it - it just doubles the damage of the full attack. I'll correct it when my math is done.

Well, at least we know how its intended.

**Philadelphus** Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:14 am

In regards to the "Crushing Blow" trait, that lets you deal 1d12 damage when "you trigger your special move": is it limited to once per turn, no matter how many times you trigger your special, or does it happen every time you trigger your special?

Demonu Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:33 pm

Regarding The Seer destiny: at level 10 it states

Level 10 The Sight
The illusions of reality have been stripped away from you entirely. No magic can deceive your senses, no matter if woven by the mightiest of archmage. You may now use True Sight at will, without spending a magic point.

Does that mean you get 2 uses of True Sight at will, 1 without spending a magic point and 1 by spending a magic point or does it mean you can just spam True Sight now?

**LoganAura** Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:49 pm

You can spam true sight at will.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:10 pm

Philadelphus wrote:In regards to the "Crushing Blow" trait, that lets you deal 1d12 damage when "you trigger your special move": is it limited to once per turn, no matter how many times you trigger your special, or does it happen every time you trigger your special?

Every time. =)

**Philadelphus** Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:23 pm

Sweet! Thanks. I may just go ahead and switch that move to Critfisher now...

Fury of the Tempest Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:51 pm

That plus Critfisher can be deadly... add in my Combat Talent upgrades...

Thinking about it, I'm surprised only one person has commented on them...

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:00 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:[color=blue]That plus Critfisher can be deadly... add in my Combat Talent upgrades...

Absolutely. That's part of how I did effectively 300+ damage, gained 33 pips, healed people for 112 hp, slapped everyone with about 18 resistance and more all on my first turn of the battle. Actually, more would have happened, a lot more, but after everything was dead there didn't seem much point in continuing to roll.

We fixed that broken part though.

**Paper Shadow** Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:02 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Fury of the Tempest wrote:That plus Critfisher can be deadly... add in my Combat Talent upgrades...

Absolutely. That's part of how I did effectively 300+ damage, gained 33 pips, healed people for 112 hp, slapped everyone with about 18 resistance and more all on my first turn of the battle. Actually, more would have happened, a lot more, but after everything was dead there didn't seem much point in continuing to roll.

We fixed that broken part though.

You should have attacked the darkness while you had the combo going...

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:05 pm

Very true. I did annihilate the campaign arch-villain.

... And this folks is why I don't guest star in campaigns very often.

Luckily, I helped figure out a way for the arch-villain to escape that made him look even more badass.

Fury of the Tempest Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:29 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Absolutely. That's part of how I did effectively 300+ damage, gained 33 pips, healed people for 112 hp, slapped everyone with about 18 resistance and more all on my first turn of the battle. Actually, more would have happened, a lot more, but after everything was dead there didn't seem much point in continuing to roll.

... HOW.

Ramsus Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:29 pm

Fury, both thematthew and I have commented on that before. We thought it was pretty broken to be honest. And..... yup. That's about where it went.

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