Let's make some Flaws!

Grey Pen wrote:That is true, Paper Shadow. Good job noticing!

If you wanted to reeeeaaaallly nice, you'd make suggestions on how to go about changing them to be more dramatic ;)

1. Take Cutie Pox, play as normal, using FCM whenever it procs. You get an extra CM.
   
2. After it procs 6 times, and as such, runs out of uses, don't use any CM skill for a roll for the rest of the day unless needed.
   
3. At the next day, you'll have all your CMs, and FCM has all of its uses reset. Play as normal, using FCM whenever it procs.
   
4. Repeat forever...

Paper Shadow wrote:Let the criticism begin!
(Although I'm in a rush so I'll continue my analyse later)

((Let the picking apart begin!))

Phobia and Obsession are both shadowed by the might of Freaky Knowledge. Freaky Knowledge gives a +5 to any roll regarding something you could take as your Phobia or Obsession, gives no downsides, and you get the bonuses for a second thing as well. There is no reason not to take Freaky Knowledge in the thing you fear and then just roleplay the fear or obsession instead of just taking Phobia or Obsession...

((True... except FK requires a certain amount of specificness, whereas Phobia/Obsession can be as broad or narrow as you're willing to risk. I do agree that it could use an octane boost, however.))

Herp Derp is weaker than Derp. Derp increases the Critical Failure Limit by 2 and gives a Magic Point for it. Herp Derp increases it by a further 3 and, technically, gives a Magic Point you can only use on your Element for it. Derp isn't popular because a lot of players decide the Critical Failure Limit is too high for their liking (although they agree such a trade-off is balanced), so hardly anyone would spend two utility slots to increase the chance of instantly failing from 1/20 to 3/10 just for 1.5 extra Magic Points. Just imagine if three out of every ten rolls you did instantly failed. The only player who would take this is a min-maxer who already knows he won't be doing any rolling, and honestly, since DMs can make you roll for certain checks, they will feel as if that utility talent is better spent elsewhere...

((The original version actually just gave you an additional Magic Point; I forget who, but someone cryed "Foul!" And it was changed. It'll probably be changed back before it's all over.))

Fluctuating Cutie Mark is kind of weird. It randomises your Cutie Mark. Why take it? Why not just keep the Cutie Mark at something your character is built towards, rather than have it fly all over? If you have built a Athletics-based character, and your CM flies off to something you've not built towards, remember you lose the +5 bonus as well. You'll find yourself as if you had built an all across the board character. And trust me, I built a Jack of all Trades character, and when I see people pull out bonuses in the double digits, I get a bit jealous. Basically, to get the most of this utility talent, you have to have an average character, which means that all the rolls which aren't being boosted by the random Cutie Mark are going to be just that. Average...

((Personally, I prefer being decent at everything over awesome at one or two things and crap at everything else... but, the point does stand that yeah, this one is mostly just weird.))

Cutie Pox is a weird beast as well. However, if you play your cards right and get lucky dice rolls, you basically get a Cutie Mark in everything. Here's how...

1. Take Cutie Pox, play as normal, using FCM whenever it procs. You get an extra CM.
   
2. After it procs 6 times, and as such, runs out of uses, don't use any CM skill for a roll for the rest of the day unless needed.
   
3. At the next day, you'll have all your CMs, and FCM has all of its uses reset. Play as normal, using FCM whenever it procs.
   
4. Repeat forever...

The real problem with Cutie Pox is that, unlike other bad talent designs which encourage rolling, it encourages not rolling. If you roll a CM Skill, and you have no FCM charges left, you suffer, especially if you have only one left. When a player runs out of charges, they'll just sit back, and only roll if it won't affect a CM skill or if they need to. And if they do have charges, they will most likely save them until they are needed anyway, to get the most out of the skill. To not get screwed over by the talent, players have to sit in the back for chunks of the campaign, which is bad design...

Although now that I think about it, Derp also encourages not rolling. Hmm...

((Again, I'll admit; it is just plain weird, and rather abusable.))

Meep! can be abused at the start of a day to give the entire party a +5 morale. Most GMs allow for Heal checks to actually heal, and if they don't, the players can just initiate combat on something to heal themselves up, either something inanimate (like a tree or something) or each other. Otherwise, it's kind of a boring talent which hardly activates and most will consider it not worth a utility talent slot...

((That seems like a bit of a stretch to me, but it does make sense. A Prerequisite of some kind, to make the fails harder to get, might help fix this.))

Appleteenie and Bigger Mac are boring. Incredibly strong, because if you are building Brawn or Precision, you won't need the other anyway, but boring. That's pretty much all I can say about that. I would say these are possible the least flawed flaws. Taking these will help you most of the time, and only hinder you if the GM plots against you. On that note, I'd say Appleteenie is better than Bigger Mac, as you're more likely to encounter a random Stealth check than a random Endurance one...

((For one, I personally think they're not strong enough; if the campaign is being run right, an effective Athletics score of 2 kinda sucks.))

((Two, it is (in my opinion) the GM's prerogative to make sure, that once in great while, the player falls behind a little because of a low stat. Stunt Check of 2 is a bad deal when you're running from that Plutonium Dragon; either you need to get really lucky on the die roll, or hope someone's willing to carry you. Not to say that should be a constant thing; just a "once in a while" thing, as a painful reminder that they chose to specialize. And is why I generally stick to nearly Everypony stats.))

((Thirdly (and this is a bit off-topic, but still) it really irritates me when specific skills are ignored just because the situation never comes up; if a character fails to eat every 5-8 hours, they ought to be rolling Endurance, with morale penalties for failure until they find some nommage. If they crit fail a Witchcraft check, an Endurance check could save them from the magical backlash. Etcetera.))

Hyperactive is abusable, because you can say that you aim on moving fast when doing any athletics or acrobatics check to get the +5 bonus. In addition, if you state that your character paces whenever they can, you can avoid both penalties, as you are technically travelling. Also, a brawn built character can take this without suffering any real downsides, even if they spin around on the spot. Other than that, it's also pretty boring...

((Again, the GM can fix this by simply providing a situation where it might be best to hold still. Or perhaps are forced to hold still.))

((It's simple, really... just think of every situation in which you've heard a little kid say "How much longer do I have to stand here?" And put the Hyper one into such a situation. And let hilarity ensue.))

Oh Buck is also boring. You will rarely take out of combat damage, and even if you do, you might end up doubling that damage. I doubt anyone would take Oh Buck if it costs a utility slot...

((True. It could use some tweaking. Perhaps it could cover some other out-of-battle negatives, such as morale or non-HP based wounds.))

Narcoleptic is abusable because, if you have time and a high score in something like History or Arcana, you can essentially keep using this talent until you roll the double six, and refresh your dailies. It's an improvement from older versions, sure, but it's still very strong in the hands of someone who can abuse it...

((Yeeees, but A) who has that kind of time, and B) if they do have that kind of time and devotion, don't you think they probably earned it with all the high checks they'd have to be rolling to reliably get over DC 30? To intentionally trigger an effect that would, without said utility talent, be a much higher DC? I fail to see the problem, other than wasting time; which is easy to fix with GM'ing skills.))

??? is okay, I guess. It doesn't really aim for the sky though...

((Admittedly, it could use an octane boost, and some re-wording.))

Quirky is like a mini-Derp, but boring and not really worth it. I’ve Read A Lot About It and Applejack of All Trades are more appealing choices, even if they give less, as they have no downsides. Much more desirable than making every one out of ten rolls fail...

((Again, a simple octane boost would probably remedy this. Perhaps allowing it to stack with trained and Cutie Mark skills? Maybe a slightly higher bonus, or affecting three skills instead of two.))

Heavy Weight simply is not worth a utility talent slot. It does so little. You're better off getting one of the two talents I mentioned above...

((Again, boost it. Maybe 2 or 3 attribute points instead of one.))

What The Hay!? is also okay. I'm not a fan of it, but it doesn't have any major problems...

Introvert, again, is boring, and most campaigns have you travel around, as opposed to staying in one place, so you suffer the penalties more than the benefits. Also, if someone is your friend, then there is very little reason you'll need to use a Persuasion check on them. The utility talent slot isn't worth it...

The G and PT is weaker than Illusionary Mask. Illusionary Mask has three uses per day, works on everyone, and can't backfire...

((True on the above too. Working on it, but I don't see them getting too far either.))

Hyperkinesis is boring and not worth it, but to be fair, I consider all the Ponykinesis talents to be boring and not worth it...

((In defense of PK in general: How many times has a Unicorn used Ponykinesis, and it's 30 ft ranges, to grab something off the top shelf, or otherwise out of reach?))
---

I will finish analysing later, maybe in a new post...

((I'll be waiting. And updating. You've given me LOTS of ideas.))

Grey Pen wrote:((Let the picking apart begin!))
Post Dissection Hard Mode!

((True... except FK requires a certain amount of specificness, whereas Phobia/Obsession can be as broad or narrow as you're willing to risk. I do agree that it could use an octane boost, however.))
Kinda. You have to choose an object still, so it's only better than FK if it is super broad (for example, a phobia of wild animals or an obsession with money), and those cases are the ones most likely to backfire horribly, unless you built a Persuasion character, at least...

((The original version actually just gave you an additional Magic Point; I forget who, but someone cryed "Foul!" And it was changed. It'll probably be changed back before it's all over.))
I should add that the problem of avoiding rolls also occurs here with Herp Derp as well. If I had those talents, I wouldn't even touch a dice outside of combat. That's why Ramsus (I checked) said three Magic Points for it would be ridiculous, because you wouldn't have to roll, ever (not really, but still)...

((Personally, I prefer being decent at everything over awesome at one or two things and crap at everything else... but, the point does stand that yeah, this one is mostly just weird.))
In my opinion, the system is built over the idea of being good at a group of things, and okay at everything else. That's why you get a base +5 bonus to everything, but only 8 extra attribute points. It's also the reason that there are only 11 different skill checks, while in D&D there are always more than you think there is. Heck, 3.5 had like 9 different Knowledge skills which all had to be individually improved. Finally, it's why Athletics and Acrobatics does almost the same thing. You don't have to put points into Brawn if you want to do physical stuff, if you have some points in Precision, or have built a Precision character, you still can do things like move fast or dodge stuff without your character being physically strong...

((Again, I'll admit; it is just plain weird, and rather abusable.))
Okay then...

((That seems like a bit of a stretch to me, but it does make sense. A Prerequisite of some kind, to make the fails harder to get, might help fix this.))
It is a stretch, admittedly, but if you had, say, an hour to wait, and could do a skill check instead of a standard action in combat, and a round of combat takes about six seconds, that's 600 skill checks per hour, maybe being perception checks to look at every tiny detail of every little thing possible until you roll a one and poke your eye out, to the amusement of your allies so they get a morale bonus, and then you go do it again. Crazy, yes, but if you are a munchkin, you'll consider it totally viable. Also, if you make the fails harder to get, you make it harder to activate unintentionally as well, making the talent more likely to be considered too situation to be useful...

((For one, I personally think they're not strong enough; if the campaign is being run right, an effective Athletics score of 2 kinda sucks.))

((Two, it is (in my opinion) the GM's prerogative to make sure, that once in great while, the player falls behind a little because of a low stat. Stunt Check of 2 is a bad deal when you're running from that Plutonium Dragon; either you need to get really lucky on the die roll, or hope someone's willing to carry you. Not to say that should be a constant thing; just a "once in a while" thing, as a painful reminder that they chose to specialize. And is why I generally stick to nearly Everypony stats.))
Remember, Athletics and Acrobatics are basically the same thing. You can use either to run away from that Plutonium Dragon. If you have spec'd into one, you have little use for the other. Athletics is the stronger one of the two because you get to do stuff which requires pure strength, such as moving a boulder, but building Precision gives other useful stuff, such as stealth and mechanics...

((Thirdly (and this is a bit off-topic, but still) it really irritates me when specific skills are ignored just because the situation never comes up; if a character fails to eat every 5-8 hours, they ought to be rolling Endurance, with morale penalties for failure until they find some nommage. If they crit fail a Witchcraft check, an Endurance check could save them from the magical backlash. Etcetera.))
Most parties carry around food with them, but the GM doesn't make them roleplay eating because that wastes time and is somewhat boring, so unless there is a reason they don't have food, everyone assumes they have brought some. And if they haven't brought any, that's only because one party member somehow creates a meal out of nothing and is so delicious it satisfies them for the whole day (Instant-Party). In my opinion, Endurance is the weakest skill to build into, followed by either Heal or Streetwise. That's why everyone puts points in Precision. Everything Precision gives is good in a lot of situations...

((Again, the GM can fix this by simply providing a situation where it might be best to hold still. Or perhaps are forced to hold still.))

((It's simple, really... just think of every situation in which you've heard a little kid say "How much longer do I have to stand here?" And put the Hyper one into such a situation. And let hilarity ensue.))
But if the GM has to design situations to counter it, it's not really much of a flaw, is it? That's like designing a situation where an illusion-based character is forced into a room full of enemies with True Sight. In addition, the flaw part comes after every hour, not instantly. The GM basically has to aim to stop the player from moving for the longest time for the flaw part of the flaw to happen, and a -1 penalty isn't all that much to be honest. Basically, hyperactive is perma-haste, and is only considered a flaw because it has some small penalties and, if you don't reflavour it (don't forget players can do that), your character will be hyperactive...

((True. It could use some tweaking. Perhaps it could cover some other out-of-battle negatives, such as morale or non-HP based wounds.))
Even so, the point about risking taking double the effect still remains. But I'm not the kind of guy who'd take something like that, so it might just be me not liking the talent itself...

((Yeeees, but A) who has that kind of time, and B) if they do have that kind of time and devotion, don't you think they probably earned it with all the high checks they'd have to be rolling to reliably get over DC 30? To intentionally trigger an effect that would, without said utility talent, be a much higher DC? I fail to see the problem, other than wasting time; which is easy to fix with GM'ing skills.))
It doesn't take that much time if you just keep up picking up dice, saying you make a Perception check (and you know a player can easily get +20 in Perception easily), and keep repeating it. The party will understand, since they know how good getting all your Magic points and Dailies back is. But thinking about this made me realise that the possible abuse isn't the problem, since you still need to roll the double six. But that leads on to the the problem I just realised. Assuming you can't abuse it, why take it? The high check means that if you have at least a +10 to any check, you risk falling asleep, and if you don't, you have no chance to proc this talent, making it useless. In addition, there is only a 1/36 chance for it to be worth it, but a 5/18 chance for it to punish you with a -3 penalty to all checks. Would you spend a utility talent slot for those chances?

((Admittedly, it could use an octane boost, and some re-wording.))
If you say so. To be honest, you could get rid of the whole penalty part and make it a normal utility talent and people would consider taking it, as it's just like taking a second copy of a daily talent...

((Again, a simple octane boost would probably remedy this. Perhaps allowing it to stack with trained and Cutie Mark skills? Maybe a slightly higher bonus, or affecting three skills instead of two.))
I can't really comment on balance. I don't really like stuff that increase the critical failure. Personally, I think Derp would be actually considered as a serious utility talent if it was buffed so it fails on only 1 and 2, as opposed to 1, 2, and 3. Currently, it's balanced but no one takes it since it still takes a utility slot...

((Again, boost it. Maybe 2 or 3 attribute points instead of one.))
Even if you did, it's still pretty boring, and it suffers a problem I think a lot of these flaws suffer, which I will explain at the end...

((True on the above too. Working on it, but I don't see them getting too far either.))
Okay...

((In defense of PK in general: How many times has a Unicorn used Ponykinesis, and it's 30 ft ranges, to grab something off the top shelf, or otherwise out of reach?))
PK has a range of 50ft, not 30ft. Also, I wouldn't know, I haven't really played much, just analysed...

Paper Shadow wrote:Identity Issues is kinda boring. It doesn't really do much useful, and that penalty can be deadly if unchecked. Maybe I'm not looking at it right. Tell me, how would you use it?

((It is currently in use in Derp Quest, to sneak a cat PC onto a train unnoticed. You might go look...))

Oh phew, I'm actually done...

((Eeenope. There's two or three more that haven't been added yet ))

I do have to ask though, and this is for anyone who wishes to answer. In your honest opinion, which flaws on the first page would you actually spend a Utility Talent slot on yourself? Keeping in mind all the other talents you could have instead. If you do find one, why would you take it? I'm interested in your answers...

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Wow, PaperShadow's last big comment was detailed and excellent. Very nice job.

What about this?

Muffins
You lose the first magic point you would gain at the end of each extended rest. You gain the following utility talent.

Muffin! - 5/day
Trigger - You roll a natural 1 on a skill check.
Effect - Reroll the check.

• Gives a modifier to skills or skill rolls, be it positive to negative.
  
• Either the positive or negative effects don't take effect if or until the player makes a successful or unsuccessful skill roll.
  
• It takes more than a few sentences to explain.
  
• I'm pretty sure there is something else here as well, but I've forgotten it...