Optional Additional Level-Up Goodies.

So the discussion about modifying the level-up process showed that a lot of people would like to spice up the level-up process a bit more than it currently is. I've explained in that thread why I think the vanilla process should stay simple, while at the same time stressing that there's nothing stopping us from coming up with interesting and fun level-up ideas that people can use in their own games.

Since there was a good amount of positive response to the level-up table I came up with off the top of my head, I thought I'd write this post for two reasons: one, collecting neat ideas people have to level-up goodies, and two, coming up with balanced and fun level-up tables made up of those ideas for people to use.

Another idea I had while writing this post was that you could include combat bonuses in the level-up process as well as non-combat stuff. Now I know combat is bit more precisely tuned than non-combat, so I'm not suggesting things like "+1 damage;" the one I thought of was being able to take additional combat talents into battle. Remember these are all just possible ideas for people to pick and choose from; if you don't like them, you're under no obligation to use them.

So, first off, here's a list of some possible ideas for additional level-up effects:
Non-combat:
Additional Attribute points.
Additional Skill points.
Bonuses to all Attributes. (Not generally thought particularly fun or interesting.)
Daily boosts to arbitrary skill checks (the "+5 or +10 to a check" option)
Increases to assist bonuses.

Combat:
Bringing additional combat talents into battle.

Second, here's another possible level-up table:

Level 2: Utility Talent, Trait, and +1 to your assist bonus.
Level 3: Boon, Trait, and 1 Attribute Point.
Level 4: Destiny, gain Master of the Situation, bring +1 Combat Talents into battle (6 total).
Level 5: Utility Talent, Trait, and +2 to your assist bonus (+3 total).
Level 6: Boon, Trait, and 1 Attribute Point.
Level 7: Destiny, gain Because Friendship, That's Why!, bring +1 Combat Talent into battle (7 total).
Level 8: Utility Talent, Trait, and 2 Skill Points (must be used on different skills).
Level 9: Boon, Trait, and 2 Attribute Points (must be used on different Attributes).
Level 10: Destiny, gain an additional Magic Point, bring +1 Combat Talent into battle (8 total).

Master of the Situation – 1/day
Trigger: You make a skill check.
After seeing the result of the check, you may choose to add 5 to it.

Because Friendship, That's Why! – 1/day
Trigger: You would fail an assist roll.
You provide your assist bonus anyway.


Remember that this thread is intended to spark and promote discussion of neat ideas for level-up bonuses, not to advocate any one such scheme as the 'right' one. If you have ideas of your own for potential neat improvements, please share them! I think it'd be really neat if we had a version of the level-up table with so many different effects that you got a different one each level, rather than repeated in sets of three like I have here. So go ahead, come up with some fun ideas of your own!

I'm liking the "take extra combat talent into battle" option.

The attributes seems a bit weirdly balanced: On one level, you get to everything, on another, you get to only one. What's the logic of this?

The level ten "extra skill check bonus" seems a bit too much to have in the end (you get two +5's, and a +10, giving everyone on a easy +20 to apply to anything. In a group of six, that's a potential +120 to a single skill if they all use it on an ally's single roll, not counting magic points!).

As far as leveling up as an obvious increase in character growth/power goes, I've personally seen the utility talents as the prime way of going about this, since they directly influence what your character can and can't do. Maybe there should be more utility talents to gain from leveling, like with traits?

Alternately, since leveling kinda involves a growing bond of friendship / harmony, and friendship is magic, perhaps leveling should provide a Magic Point related improvement? E.g. giving magic points a +1 skill check bonus every three levels (so that MPs provide +13 bonuses in the end).

Alternately, gaining an extra/free use of MP-related abilities (e.g. getting a free use of an element of harmony at specific levels, allowing for 3/day use of elements of harmony for no MPs at lvl 10). This might be a bit overpowered, though.

There's also the option of having "assist" rolls improve via leveling, or be boosted over time - gaining a +1/+2 bonus for assisting every three levels, and at lvl 10, assists get to do two "assist confirmation" rolls (assisting can use some improvements, since a lot of people appear reluctant to use them over straight rolls, and there aren't many utility options that are attractive for "assisters").

Zarhon wrote:The attributes seems a bit weirdly balanced: On one level, you get to everything, on another, you get to only one. What's the logic of this?

The logic, such as it goes, was that you'd get +1 to all Attribute – something that doesn't involve any choice on your part – the same levels you got to pick a Utility Talent, while you'd get one Attribute point (that you got to choose where you put it) on the levels where you got Boons, and didn't really get anything individually (besides another Trait). It's not the greatest logic, and now that you've pointed it out, I think I'll change it. I might just get rid of the +1 to all Attributes entirely, given some of the other ideas in the rest of your post.

Zarhon wrote:The level ten "extra skill check bonus" seems a bit too much to have in the end (you get two +5's, and a +10, giving everyone on a easy +20 to apply to anything. In a group of six, that's a potential +120 to a single skill if they all use it on an ally's single roll, not counting magic points!).

I had intended (but forgot to make it clear) that you couldn't use more than one interrupt (including Magic Points) on a skill check at a time, which would force people to spread them out a bit more (and probably be more fun, rather than piling everything you have into one skill check). How does that sound? That way a group of 6 could only add up to +60 on a single roll, using either their Magic Points or their +10 interrupt (and this is at level 10, after all).

Zarhon wrote:As far as leveling up as an obvious increase in character growth/power goes, I've personally seen the utility talents as the prime way of going about this, since they directly influence what your character can and can't do. Maybe there should be more utility talents to gain from leveling, like with traits?

Alternately, since leveling kinda involves a growing bond of friendship / harmony, and friendship is magic, perhaps leveling should provide a Magic Point related improvement? E.g. giving magic points a +1 skill check bonus every three levels (so that MPs provide +13 bonuses in the end).

Alternately, gaining an extra/free use of MP-related abilities (e.g. getting a free use of an element of harmony at specific levels, allowing for 3/day use of elements of harmony for no MPs at lvl 10). This might be a bit overpowered, though.

I have to say that I too would kinda like to get some more Utility Talents, but it seems like the number is fairly well balanced as it is. Also you would have to slot them in there between the three you already get somehow. (Also also you could run this with Talent Specialization, for a potential 2 more.) I mean, it's certainly an option, and you're welcome to come up with your own level-up table that includes it (I'd love to see more potential tables), but I think I'll stay away from adding more to this at this point.

With the Magic Point increase, although I like the thinking behind it, I can't help but feel that it's not a really significant change (considering how often people tend to use their Magic Points), and it's mostly just small numbers to remember to write down.

I rather like the idea of gaining a free use of your Element, though probably only one and not till later levels to keep it from being too powerful (just imagine Xel with 5-6 uses of Laughter per day ). I'll think about that one.

Zarhon wrote:There's also the option of having "assist" rolls improve via leveling, or be boosted over time - gaining a +1/+2 bonus for assisting every three levels, and at lvl 10, assists get to do two "assist confirmation" rolls (assisting can use some improvements, since a lot of people appear reluctant to use them over straight rolls, and there aren't many utility options that are attractive for "assisters").

I also really like this idea. The assistance mechanism was one thing that drew me towards the Pony Tales system when it first came out, and I was slightly disappointed that after being set up in the Handbook it pretty much isn't talked about again barring one or two racial options and two (underwhelming in my opinion) Utility Talents from The Talent Show. It certainly makes a lot of sense for characters to get better at helping one another as they adventure together, and I'm definitely going to add something like that to the next iteration of the table, which will probably be tonight when I get back home.

Philadelphus wrote:I had intended (but forgot to make it clear) that you couldn't use more than one interrupt (including Magic Points) on a skill check at a time, which would force people to spread them out a bit more (and probably be more fun, rather than piling everything you have into one skill check). How does that sound? That way a group of 6 could only add up to +60 on a single roll, using either their Magic Points or their +10 interrupt (and this is at level 10, after all).

I've in fact asked about this topic of adding more than one interrupt to a skill check to me, the devs said as many you can as many as you'd want as along as the GM allows it... So um yeah...

Ok, I finally got around to updating the original post with some ideas, and decided to write some things explicitly as utility talents so that I could better define them. I also color-coded stuff on a whim to better show how things relate by level.

Philadelphus wrote:So, first off, here's a list of some possible ideas for additional level-up effects:
Non-combat:
Additional Attribute points.
Additional Skill points.
Bonuses to all Attributes. (Not generally thought particularly fun or interesting.)
Daily boosts to arbitrary skill checks (the "+5 or +10 to a check" option)
Increases to assist bonuses.

Combat:
Bringing additional combat talents into battle.

Second, here's another possible level-up table:

Level 2: Utility Talent, Trait, and +1 to your assist bonus.
Level 3: Boon, Trait, and 1 Attribute Point.
Level 4: Destiny, gain Master of the Situation, bring +1 Combat Talents into battle (6 total).
Level 5: Utility Talent, Trait, and +2 to your assist bonus (+3 total).
Level 6: Boon, Trait, and 1 Attribute Point.
Level 7: Destiny, gain Because Friendship, That's Why!, bring +1 Combat Talent into battle (7 total).
Level 8: Utility Talent, Trait, and 2 Skill Points (must be used on different skills).
Level 9: Boon, Trait, and 2 Attribute Points (must be used on different Attributes).
Level 10: Destiny, gain an additional Magic Point, bring +1 Combat Talent into battle (8 total).

Master of the Situation – 1/day
Trigger: You make a skill check.
After seeing the result of the check, you may choose to add 5 to it.

Because Friendship, That's Why! – 1/day
Trigger: You would fail an assist roll.
You provide your assist bonus anyway.

This is quite a fun idea to start everyone off with, totally hope to play a campaign that uses it soon. To me this plays off to the core of friendship allowing people to do better together and stuff... And I LOVE the idea of level ten getting so much more powerful.

Not totally sure about the combat add ons... But the rest seem pure awesome.

I like Because Friendship, That's Why!, and I think upgraded a bit n it's own it would be a great stand alone utility talent.

I'm rather fond of it myself. It was one of those "just came to me while I was writing" ideas. If it 3/day I'd probably take it, especially if my character had that racial that provides a +4 assist bonus.

And Xel, if you don't like the combat stuff, no need to use it. I'm just throwing out some ideas here, you're free to take them and change them as you like. This is just my personal idea of what might be fun to have. Everyone else, feel free to contribute your own ideas for alternate level up tables.