Official Errata Suggestion/Discussion Thread (changes you'd like to see made)

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

This is a place to propose or discuss changes to combat talents, destinies, utility talents, items or anything else you like. Comment on recent changes, highlight things that seem too powerful, too weak or have spelling and grammar errors that you've noticed.

Previously, the Errata Announcement thread has been used to announce changes as well as to discuss them or propose them. However, that's a little inconvenient for people subscribed to the thread that just want to get emails about what the rule changes are and not read all the discussion surrounding them.

So let's take care of all that here from now on. Enjoy!

[Paper Shadow]

There is now a thread for discussing potential changes to errata in the official game and updates forum (which is where this thread is too). From now on, let's talk about stuff there and leave this for the actual updates.

You should most likely lock the old thread then so only mods and admins can make posts about the updates. If you do that, I suggest posting those updates here as well, because no one likes awkward transitions...

[ZamuelNow]

Is it still two per week like the other thread?  Anyways:

One With the Waves:

One With the Waves feels rather underwhelming compared to the other various elemental racials.  Fireborn allows you to both walk in lava and breathe non-combat flames.  OWtW gives you...super not drowning skills.  It's useful in some situations but it doesn't feel aquatic enough for its name.  While I do know that there's been a suggestion made for an element-born variant, the original OWtW could stand to have a buff.  Thunderborn and Thunderbird are good examples of similar themed racials with different purposes.

One With the Waves - Revamp:

Still has limits but is more useful.  Also, leaves room for aquatic creatures who breathe air like walruses.

TK:

The update to Adv TK and the consolidation of telekinetic skills left Metalcrafting rather lacking in comparison.  Rather than try to buff Metalcrafting, I propose that it be rebuilt as a brand new power that can fit more concepts.

Element Master:

The concept is that someone can specialize in an element and get a better buff with just it while there's still room for an all around telekinetic.

[kajisora]

Is it still two per week like the other thread?  Anyways:

One With the Waves:

One With the Waves feels rather underwhelming compared to the other various elemental racials.  Fireborn allows you to both walk in lava and breathe non-combat flames.  OWtW gives you...super not drowning skills.  It's useful in some situations but it doesn't feel aquatic enough for its name.  While I do know that there's been a suggestion made for an element-born variant, the original OWtW could stand to have a buff.  Thunderborn and Thunderbird are good examples of similar themed racials with different purposes.

One With the Waves - Revamp:

Still has limits but is more useful.  Also, leaves room for aquatic creatures who breathe air like walruses.

pretty much agreed to this.
in fact, I've been thinking for some time now that since we have so many different -born traits, it might be a good idea to scrap the variations and turn them into a kind of elemental FK. Something like this:

Extremophile:

I realise this would be very much open to abuse (the wording would probably have to be tightened) but it does open up some really interesting races, including diggers (earth element: immune to choking on dirt/rock, tunneling ability from control)

[Zarhon]

Alright. Here's a wishlist/number of propositions of mine...

1) Granite Axe:

2) Assists:

3) Other combat stuff:

4) Aquatic / Water stuff:

5) Other utilities:

6) Animal talents:

Oh, and a small question: Does the recent "damage boosting" errata affect Meditate as well? It wasn't mentioned.

[ZamuelNow]

I never really thought about it but assists could stand to be better defined.  I'm not as RPG experienced as most here but I've seen assists/team checks elsewhere needing to beat a static number across the campaign.  The reasoning is that you're just trying to help them as opposed to doing it yourself.  Also, assisting/aiding terminology needs to be standardized across the rules.

Assists/Team checks:

pretty much agreed to this.
in fact, I've been thinking for some time now that since we have so many different -born traits, it might be a good idea to scrap the variations and turn them into a kind of elemental FK. Something like this:

Extremophile:

I realise this would be very much open to abuse (the wording would probably have to be tightened) but it does open up some really interesting races, including diggers (earth element: immune to choking on dirt/rock, tunneling ability from control)

Outside of the wording needing to be tightened up, the thing with specifying the element-borns is that each one has a unique breath ability that has different properties.  Still might be a decent idea but would take some fine tuning and GM work.

[Ramsus]

Ok so yeah... my Skill Support thread really covers a lot of changes I'd like to see. Removal of a few (in particular The Sky's the Limit) and changes to a whole bunch of others that just aren't really right or fair the way they are. Eagle Eye and the Stare (compared to Yee-Haw!) are good examples on both sides of the fairness scale. I've detailed how and why Nimble Hooves, Stealth Mode, and Hop, Skip and Jump could be changed to be more fair to everyone as well.

[Philadelphus]

I just noticed that the Items for Skype document has the "Spear - [Board Combat Only]" item in it. Second item on the list in the Weapons section.

[ZamuelNow]

Detect Thoughts need to be reworded so that the fact that it's mind reading is more obvious.

Detect Thoughts - Revised:

Adding the proposed adjustment from the other thread for Dis-chord

Dis-chord - Revised:

[Ramsus]

If we're discussing Dis-Chord, could we mention how it's not such a good thing to have a talent that costs you pips that can with bad luck turn an easy to win fight into a TPKO? I think the bonus enemy damage should be halved.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Dis-chord has a huge amount of design issues. However, I think anyone making a tactical error like using a risky back-firing move on an easy-win fight probably should get bitten anyways. I do like it just hurting the user a lot though, that change would keep bad feelings from running around.

[Zarhon]

However, I think anyone making a tactical error like using a risky back-firing move on an easy-win fight probably should get bitten anyways.

If using it on a easy-won fight is an error, why would using it on a hard-won / dangerous fight (e.g. boss, anything with huge damage) be any less of a bad idea?

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Because you don't want to gamble when you have an assured victory. You only reach for the high-risk/high-reward tactics when you need a much higher reward than playing it safe will get you.

[Xel Unknown]

Honestly, I think just turning that +1d12 to a +1d6 would be a fair change. Hell just turning it to a +1d8 or +1d10 would make it more favable for me to even think of trying to use it. It's just too unreliable as is... You gotta win TWO coin flips to have anything positive happen from this talent by itself. Which is a bad thing...

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Thing is, it's currently significantly powerful in team builds. Buffing it more would make it ridiculous with the right team. I frankly think it just needs a complete redesign, based on the idea of a chaotic power that can hurt the user if it goes wrong but is more usable without the support of other players.

[Zarhon]

Should some clarifications be added for Spider Climb, Scent Tracker, Echolocation, and similar racials? Their names all vaguely imply abilities that go beyond the descriptions (Sticking to walls/ceilings, being able to "smell" well beyond the tracking aspect, augmented hearing/sonar...), and some of them apply static/rigid situational bonuses ("climbing" for Spider Climb, which likely doesn't include "hang off ceiling"; scent tracking for tracking purposes and not much else...) rather than give you something that others can't copy by rolling (granted, its harder, but still doable with a good roll or relevant bonuses). Any reason they aren't phrased more like "Magically Attuned"?

Stuff from Ask Questions Thread:

Here are some proposed changes to consider:

Proposed changes:

[ZamuelNow]

With the other thread revealing how it actually can be useful, I think the main things Dis-Chord needs is to only apply the damage to enemies hitting the caster (handled in the reword via the suggestion from the other thread) and maybe lowering the damage since the main danger yet simultaneously the main benefit is using it against groups. I feel the system needs a few quirkier things in it and this is a high risk/high reward move that genuinely has a risk as opposed to just a minor turn delay. It's just that only the user should be burdened by that risk. Besides, entire builds are structured around other combat talents so I can't see why this would be an exception outside of the way it interacts with a teammate who also uses it.

[Ramsus]

Um.... could we not make syphon life not a d8 move? +1's already have enough trouble getting used viably as is. I don't think we should be discouraging people by taking away their ability to crit. You could have it do 1d8-1 damage or do a smaller amount of healing or such but, taking away the d8 basically just means people will just pick something else.

[Paper Shadow]

In their defence, at least this makes Divine Boon (and maybe Invigorating Strike) more viable, even if they can't self-heal...

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

I'm not a fan of putting subtraction on dice rolls, as getting a 0 (or negative if that's possible, and that can get confusing) is a serious pain.

[Ramsus]

You have halving on damage other places. I think putting subtraction on the damage or reducing the healing are both better options than basically removing the talent from play.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Halving doesn't reduce damage to zero and it's usually used, very infrequently, to let players roll tons of dice or gain some neat side-benefit. If you crunch the numbers, this change doesn't remove the talent from play - it just prevents it from being overpowered.

[Ramsus]

If you don't crunch numbers and just care if it can crit or not, it does. Which is what most people are going to care about when choosing a +1 move.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Many players have built no-crit builds. There are many talents that can crit. If you'd like to submit an additional lifedrain combat talent that does have a crit chance, there's the weekly updates. This is the slickest way to bring the combat talent back into balance in the mean time. It doesn't preclude the possibility of adding more crit-worthy talents to the system afterwards.

[Zarhon]

From my personal experience, syphon life was pretty much a optimal choice for absolutely any build - it provides decent damage, grants a pip (always usable), grants a crit, allows for healing of you or an ally, and works with anything that combos with attacks (or healing). It was pretty much taken by at least one or two people in every party I've seen or played with, whether they wanted survivability, sustainability, or an option of offensive support/healing.

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