Zilean's Revenge (Part 3)

Traits like "unacceptable" don't affect/benefit your conjurations unless specifically stated, I think (e.g. they don't benefit from one's "duelist"). Checking to make sure.

Thats along that same vein of "on opponents turn , if this than he takes XdY damage", and then the DM rolls it. If the DM rolls a crit, does it activate the player's special, because it was the Player's talent and technically his die to roll?

Same thing with thois, kind of. He did roll the die that rolled a 1, and it says all die he rolls a 1 on get rerolled. Plus, conjurers pet is his own trait, too- its not a separate entity, technically. He directs the turn for it, etc. So I'm pretty sure unacceptable counts.

As far as "Mocking Melody" goes,Jeraylia should technically be the one making the roll for it, for when that triggers. The whole "DM rolls for you" is something I did purely out of convenience (especially since this is a PbP).

If it critted, it would indeed be Jeraylia's crit (since the alternative is the monster/DM gets a crit instead, or that your own d8/d10/d12 ability can't crit at all due to "not being rolled by you", which is stupid).

As far as conjurations go, they, for instance, cannot trigger their master's crits, without a special trait that explicitly allows them to do so. I assume a similar thing affects unacceptable in that regard (if you rolled for an ally, or a dominated enemy, would you get to re-roll the nat1?).

The fact conj. pet is a trait is kinda irrelevant: The trait merely summons it at the start of combat (same way as an ability would), it's still a conjuration of it's own, which does its "own" rolls.

I'll just edit it now than. Sorry for the confusion.

Alright, it's SOA2's turn now, and it's dominated, so...

---

It's actions controlled by the undead remnant, the other suit of armor succeeds in landing a decent, ringing blow against its metallic twin.

SOA2's turn (Dominated):

---

It is now Kris's / Rabiah's turn again.

Okay, I think I know what I'm doing now.

Rabiah HP: 4(Temp.) + 5
Her pips were one but will be zero at the end of this.
She will use Strength of Stone on SOA1.

dice roll...failed...:

Looks okay. Would like it if you'd put the current pips you had and/or spent as well.

New round! Initiative recap:

Rolf <--- next
Horizon
Jeraylia
SOA1 - mock. melody (save ends), dazed (until end of Rolf's turn), 5 ongoing (save ends)
Skitter
Zthulan
Koras
SOA2
Rabiah

"Hopefully this will finish at least one of them off. Or at least toss them back a bit." Rolf lifted the Thunder Hammer into the air and started gathering up energy. A ball of lightning started to form above his head, increasing in size until it was about 3 feet in diameter. The last remnants of the Thunder Hammer enchantment faded as Rolf brought his cudgel forward and the ball....slowly wafted toward the suits of armor. Once it got about a foot away, the ball of lightning suddenly shot out two MASSIVE streams of electricity at the constructs before dissipating.

Combat:

Stats:

Special to note here, due to their traits affecting it, the armors treats stuns as if they were dazed: instead of being unable to act, it applies the "full" effect that daze would have (single standard/minor action per turn, no reaction/interrupts, 2vuln). SOA1 is bloodied.

---

Meanwhile, a floor above...

"What's making all that racket?"

"I think it's the adventurers, dear. I let them stay in one of the store-rooms for the night."

"What in blazes are they doing? Wrestling with the furniture?"

"Oh, you know how they get, honey. They're probably sparring, or letting off a bit of steam..."

"They're not going to thrash the place, are they?"

"Have some faith, dearie!"

Horizon, not to be outclassed by some magic hammer, takes aim and careens headlong into the first suit of armor, spearing it on his blade and slamming into the wall.

Spoiler:

Thanks to gather energy, and daze wearing off, I get two standard actions this turn.

Combat:

---

Jeraylia takes a stance in front of the first Armor, placing herself between the enemy and Rabiah. She smacks it in the helmet with a downward sweep of her sword. "Maybe this'll knock some sense into you." She turns her head towards the other armour. "As for you, I've some choice words reserved, just you wait."

---

Summary: SOA1 takes 4 damage before resist/vuln. SOA2 subjected to mocking melody. Rabiah has 5 temp hit points (since it overwrites).

Jeraylia:

The first armor, barely still staying in one piece against the combined assaults laid down against it then rushes over to Rolf, grabbing him around the chest from the front with its large metallic arms, as though hugging him.  It then proceeds to twist and jump over backwards, effectively suplexing him in a manner that leaves him slammed back-first into the stone floor and crushed by the armor's weight. The armor then releases him, bows, and retrieves it's halberd.

SOA1's turn:

---

Skitter's turn is next.

"...Ow." Rolf slowly got back to his feet, barely holding on. "...Yeah, I'm gonna be a bit defensive for a bit. Healing would be nice, though."

Stats:

Don't worry, I'll wait. The have to try to hurt me eventually.

((Zarhon isn't online and I need to see if something actually dies here, if not I have to change what I'm doing with the turn. The only thing that's for sure is that I'm hitting one of them.))

Combat Data:

Got to go to work, will be back in about 5 hours, if Zarhon gets back before than, tell him I use Healing Salve on Rolf.  Sorry I can't actually roll or do flavor text 

Ramsus wrote:((Zarhon isn't online and I need to see if something actually dies here, if not I have to change what I'm doing with the turn. The only thing that's for sure is that I'm hitting one of them.))

Unless I'm mistaken, punishing blow can't trigger from the "steel suplex", since it is a utility.

[-2] Punishing Blow - Reaction Attack
Trigger – An enemy damages one of your allies with an attack.
Effect – Deal 1d12 damage to the triggering enemy.

You'll have to pick a different damaging thing. And yes, you can conjure your skeleton from the SOA1, assuming you can do 2 damage minimum (it still has 1 resist). This will also probably activate another trait, which will have to be resolved right after its triggering.

I'm delaying Zthulan's post/turn until Skitter's turn is resolved.

...Something that does 1d20 direct damage is a utility?

Lyntermas wrote:...Something that does 1d20 direct damage is a utility?

I'm calling rule of cool, because suplex.

Keep in mind these things will be effectively guarding your hideout (unless you decide to overkill, that is).

Edit: What the hell is with this new posting interface adding extra lines after a quote by default?!

I call bullshit. It didn't have that move when dominated. And there's no way a suplex isn't an attack. Rule of cool doesn't mean I can't be cool too. But, you know what, whatever. Skitter goes to sleep. Since apparently "cool" = Ramsus can't do shit.

((I'm already having issues with another GM pulling bullshit with game mechanics that screw over players because "balance wtf is balance". So, I don't have any tolerance left in me for such today.))

Let me just chime in- firstly, I'm pretty sure the system differentiates between Attacks and Utilities by if they do direct damage. So if this were a legit, not homemade talent, it would most definitely be classified an Attack.

Secondly, even if you can't use punishing blow, you didn't list a Standard OR Minor Action for your turn. Do you not have anything that can hit him for the 1 damage and bring out the Skeleton anyway?

The reason it didn't have that move whilst dominated is because it could not afford it's cost in PiPs that turn (you using a +pip attack enabled it). Said cost in pips is the main reason it is a utility, and it is one of few that are actually -pip abilities (you've seen +pip abilities so far). It is highly unlikely it would have been able to use it more than once in the entire battle due to its cost (with one singular exception that is heavily dependent on optimal circumstances). I made it a utility to facilitate it's use of it.

If you want to whine about balance, try designing monsters that have to take into account their abilities being used against each other (often), or reflected back at them (easily), or have their attacks stopped/retconned into not happening, or being unable to use minions without a player snowballing. And then see if they end up being complete pushovers, or TPKs, or balanced enough to reasonably fight.

Let me just chime in- firstly, I'm pretty sure the system differentiates between Attacks and Utilities by if they do direct damage. So if this were a legit, not homemade talent, it would most definitely be classified an Attack.

From the handbook:

Attack - An ‘attack’ is, ‘any combat talent that is labeled as an attack’. It’s genuinely that simple. This only matters as a keyword for certain powers that let you do things when a creature uses an attack against you, or affects your own attacks. For example, being blinded really messes with you if you try to use an attack. However, if you use the other kind of combat talent - a utility combat talent - then being blinded doesn’t affect you at all. In short, don’t worry about this keyword unless some effect specifically talks about attacks.

As far as I see it, the whole "attack" and "utility" wording is just to classify what can and can't affect/trigger off of it (e.g. blind). The "direct damage" is common for attacks, but not a rule.

Secondly, even if you can't use punishing blow, you didn't list a Standard OR Minor Action for your turn. Do you not have anything that can hit him for the 1 damage and bring out the Skeleton anyway?

I believe he can use his siphon life (which would probably be a better choice anyway, since it gives him pips), and do the rest of the routine. Him whining is really pointless. The fact that it is a utility, rather than an attack, didn't matter what-so-ever for Skitter (and it wouldn't have mattered for Rolf either, since his attack-triggering stuff he had no pips for anyway), at least as far as finishing off SOA1 goes.

Now, Ramsus, will you do your turn, or do I have to skip you?

Bronymous my standard was conjuring the specter. Zarhon, it in fact entirely changes my action. I don't kill something, means I don't conjure the blood skeleton, which means my specter doesn't die and dominate something. So yeah, it really effects what I was gonna do since it being arbitrarily not an attack that I didn't get to know it could do while it was dominated means I do something rather weak instead. I'll hold my action for now. Maybe I'll feel like posting then or at least have an opportunity to do what I was going to do in the first place. But probably not as they'll use an entire set of utility damage moves I didn't get to know they had. *rolls eyes*

I'm not letting you use dominate as a free "know everything there is to know about the fight" pass. You know only what you need to know for the dominated turns, which includes what it can use at that moment, depending on pips available (reactions/interrupts can be used off-turn, of course, if applicable and still dominated at that point), whether an available-to-use ability is a [+pip] or [-pip] ability (no cost numbers), and either precise or vague descriptions (targets it can affect and attack/utility classification is precisely listed, effects are vague unless seen already - e.g. "single target [+pip] attack that damages" or "damaging [+pip] attack that hits every enemy" or "[+pip] utility that randomly targets to apply vuln").

And yes, you can hold/delay your action, if you feel like the moment isn't right for an ability. You can also "ready" actions to a manner similar to reactions (e.g. to summon a specter right after you summon a blood skeleton), but:

a) your conjurations cannot act until after your actual turn, regardless of when/how they were summoned.
b) if your readied action doesn't happen by time your turn comes up (e.g. blood skeleton isn't summon), it is "wasted" (unless you use it right before the turn happens to prevent a waste - your "readied actions" aren't set in stone, I think).

(I checked this with Dan over skype.)

So you can assign your specter to be summoned after the blood skeleton does (using a reaction and a standard action), but you then have to wait for the next turn's actions to end, to actually OMNOMNOM it.

In any case, it's Zthulan's turn then, if you're delaying. I'll let him post his stuff at his leisure.

Zarhon wrote:From the handbook:

Attack - An ‘attack’ is, ‘any combat talent that is labeled as an attack’. It’s genuinely that simple. This only matters as a keyword for certain powers that let you do things when a creature uses an attack against you, or affects your own attacks. For example, being blinded really messes with you if you try to use an attack. However, if you use the other kind of combat talent - a utility combat talent - then being blinded doesn’t affect you at all. In short, don’t worry about this keyword unless some effect specifically talks about attacks.

As far as I see it, the whole "attack" and "utility" wording is just to classify what can and can't affect/trigger off of it (e.g. blind). The "direct damage" is common for attacks, but not a rule.

Bronymous wrote:So if this were a legit, not homemade talent, it would most definitely be classified an Attack.

But the fact remains that this is a homemade talent that by most accounts should be an Attack, but you named it Utility instead- to no real end except it can't trigger many interrupts or reactions. There is also the fact that before they began labeling each talent as attack or utility, "attacks" for the sake of triggers and whatever were determined by if it caused immediate damage.

I'm not saying change it if you don't want, but maybe just drop it in the Simple Question thread, see what they have to say.