Re: Zilean's Revenge (Part 3)

**LoganAura** Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:19 pm

I may not be a developer, but I'd like to toss my two cents in.

Attacks and Utilities are labels, plain and simple. ((Dan agreed on this, so this is direct from the main man himself.))

There are a couple utilities that deal damage (Granted not as much as Zarhon did, but they still do) and a few attacks that don't really deal damage.

[-8] Judo Throw - Standard Attack
Fling target creature away from the battle, removing it from combat until the end of its next turn (a creature removed from combat cannot affect any other creature in the battle with combat talents or be affected by any combat talents - though it may still use [+] abilities to gain PiPs). You may choose to deal 3d12 damage to a creature thrown this way.

This one is an attack that may not do damage

[-3] Blast From The Past - Standard Utility
You cease to exist and can take no actions until the start of your next turn. While you do not exist, you cannot affect any creature and no creature can see or affect you in any way. At the start of your next turn, you reappear and deal 1d12 damage to target creature and all creatures adjacent to it.

This is a utility that, in the end, deals damage.

It's simply just a label put onto the talents.

Ramsus Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:58 pm

Yay, Logan intervention. Just what was needed to make my day better. Iirc last you said you didn't want anything to do with me. This has to do with me, so go away please.

Kris_The_Guest Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:33 pm

I won't really be able to get on the internet from the 20th to the 23rd. I'm going to the beach, then the capital, and then a big zoo. I just wanted to tell everyone right now before I forgot and it became a burden on everyone.

Zarhon Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:53 pm

On that same note, I have a big exam coming up, on the 20th. Expect a lack of posts or short hiatus prior to that.

**LoganAura** Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:54 pm

Ramsus wrote:Yay, Logan intervention. Just what was needed to make my day better. Iirc last you said you didn't want anything to do with me. This has to do with me, so go away please.

My apologies, but as an admin, Ramsus, I kind of have to intervene at times as an admin, and as you seem to have a distaste for most everyone... yeah. I'll try to hold off on times when it that important for me to say something, though, to respect your wish. However when I had said that, I was enraged by a comment of yours but this is not the place for it.

Ramsus Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:12 pm

LoganAura wrote:you seem to have a distaste for most everyone

Rules broken by this statement: Behavior 1, Behavior 2, Behavior 5.
Rule you're probably going to break if you respond: Moderation 6, Moderation 4, Behavior 1, Behavior 5.

Actually, as an admin you didn't have to intervene. I don't recall anyone asking you to do so in this public thread. If someone asked your opinion, you could (and should) have given it privately. If nobody asked you opinion, giving it privately would have been acceptable but, publicly here is far beyond necessity.

If you don't want to deal with me fine. Don't flaunt you ill advised position in my face for no reason when you should know better and start insulting me and laying blame on me for your actions.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:43 pm

I don't think that mild a statement can be considered either trolling, flaming or drama. Unnecessary sure, but not trolling, flaming or drama. I would however suggest that people take a sip of apple cider and cool down. There was a rules question, it was brought into a skype chat, Logan posted an answer that I verified as correct and he spent some time writing it out. No reason to start freaking out about things. Let's just move on and not talk about this anymore in this thread. =)

Anyway, utilities and attacks are indeed just labels - they have no flavor requirements. We call them those labels to either enable or disable certain combat interactions; like if something should be nullified by blindness or shouldn't be able to be misdirected. In general, attacks tend to do damage but it isn't a rules requirement.

A1C Bronymous Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:59 pm

Alright, well my only objection is withdrawn.

Zarhon Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:23 am

Ramsus wrote:Actually, as an admin you didn't have to intervene. I don't recall anyone asking you to do so in this public thread. If someone asked your opinion, you could (and should) have given it privately. If nobody asked you opinion, giving it privately would have been acceptable but, publicly here is far beyond necessity.

I talked with him/Dan via Skype to clarify on the attack/utility issue. We also discussed and clarified some things on delayed actions (for your benefit).

Now let's return back to the subject of ongoing combat again, shall we? Waiting for Zthulan to post his thing.

Azarune Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:12 am

Yup, and here I go!

Seeing Rolf's condition Zthulan rushes over and gives him a waterskin while Koras lunges again Rolf's attacker.

Combat:

Status:

Zarhon Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:55 am

SOA1 had only 1 resist at this point, so you actually KO'd it, Az.

This, however, activated its final, KO/death-triggered trait, which due to its nature and current circumstances, gave you a pretty bad deal...

The steel suit of armor has its halberd break in half from Koras's blow, followed by having the front of its chestpiece fall off. The suit discards the useless weapon, and rushes towards Zthulan, pieces of armor falling off as it does so. Much like with Rolf, it proceeds to use a fairly painful wrestling back-flip maneuver on him, slamming and crushing him. It takes another bow (helmet falling off in the process), sets itself in a straight, standing position, then promptly tips over backwards onto the floor with a loud clang.

SOA1 trait activation, post Zthulan's turn:

Initiative update:
Rolf
Horizon
Jeraylia
Skitter
Blood Skeleton, Specter (if either are summoned)
Zthulan
Koras
SOA2 <-- Next turn
Rabiah

What is Skitter doing at this point, as far as his conjurations/delayed/readied stuff goes, before I continue on with SOA2's turn?

Ramsus Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:14 am

Skitter latches on to the departing magical energies and twists then and pulls them back together. Shadowy tendrils stitch the armor back together and it stands up once more, lumbering towards the other walking armor. As it nears it opens its visor and a stream of shadows pour forth into the other armor and take control of its movements momentarily.

Combat Data:

Zarhon Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:23 am

As I've said before, the blood skeleton (or ANY conjuration) can't act until it's right after your (the summoner's) turn. Weird and slightly nonsensical rule, but it's a valid one - checked and confirmed this by Dan earlier in Skype.

You can summon the Blood Skelly now with the reaction, and the Specter with a delayed standard action, as described, but the skeleton and specter will have to wait with their respective actions (the order of which, I believe is at your choosing), until after you've done your next turn proper.

EDIT: Forgot about delaying moving you in initiative. SOA2 dominated.

Ramsus Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:33 am

I think you've failed to grasp how delaying turns work. I delayed my turn. This is when I'm taking my turn from now on for the rest of the battle. Therefore after my turn was after I took my turn. Shocking how I didn't do the nonsensically stupid doesn't even make sense for anyone to ever actually do readying an action option right? *rolls eyes*

Zarhon Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:38 am

Yeah, realized it a min ago, you beat me to the punch (yay for ninja posts). Readying an action can be useful, since it doesn't push you back in initiative, as far as I know, and you can combo it with team-mates reliably.

In any case, the SOA2 is dominated, then, and with its current pips, can use:

Spoiler:

What will SOA2 do on its dominated turn (if anything)?

Ramsus Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:36 am

Skitter then commands both armors to tear each other apart.

((Wow thanks Zarhon for designing the monsters so it's almost impossible for me to do anything useful to them aside from make them skip their turns. Want to explain to me how it magically doesn't have the ability to harm itself in any way? scratch

))

Combat Data:

Zarhon Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:27 am

The monster would be able to use its moves fairly effectively on its partner, if it was still alive (it kinda died much faster than anticipated).

If it could also hit itself, domination would be a way too broken/OP ability for this fight, or almost any fight with a monster with very high damage output, that is fighting on its own (domination leaves it practically helpless). You think that damage, ongoing damage, and vuln is something to shrug at? The fact domination gives you access to special, potentially room-clearing abilities, that players would normally not be allowed to *touch*, at virtually no cost or real sacrifice to yourself...

Just because you can use domination, doesn't mean it's the best ability to use in any situation, or worth using on a monster in the first place (usually it is though, cause if anything, you can force turn-skips, which is boring but effective), depending on situation or the monster in question. Monsters can be, but also don't have to be perfectly suited to wreck their own teams with domination.

And how do you fathom a suit of armor "hurting itself" with a halberd, with the skills described (a stomp, a wide sweep, a "mighty smash", and a suplex respectively)?

And why complain in the first place, when you managed to get a pretty decent damaging use of it? Accept and work what you're given, not argue on every detail that isn't to your favor and ask for free advantages. The fight isn't centered nor tailored around you specifically, and none of you are in desperate need of an advantage at this point.

And let's put it this way: If you think domination can be used to win you every fight, then I suppose nothing really prevents monsters from using the same tactics...

I'm frankly getting tired of you constantly and repeatedly assuming the worst out of my DMing choices, like I have an agenda against any of you.

In any case, SOA2 took a bunch of damage (reduced by resist, but also increased by Rolf's stun acting like a daze), is still alive, domination ended. It ain't bloodied yet.

Now it is Rabiah's turn again.

Kris_The_Guest Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:13 pm

Well, I really don't know what to do with her. I have no pips left unless move back is an option.

Zarhon Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Kris, I've kindly asked you to read up on the rules earlier (Look up the "how to fight" section, the combat talents doc and EVERYTHING ELSE for future reference). If you had done so, you'd have known how the PiPs system works by now, and wouldn't have this problem.

Now go do it, and do your turn properly. I am not going to hold your hand for every single turn of combat, if I can't expect you to do anything on your own.

If you can't figure it out from the rules, then look up the actual combat that was done so far.

Ramsus Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:37 pm

You know what, if you want to treat a player's complaints as worthless information that's just a nuisance to you, fine. I won't bother telling you when do things that make the game less fun. Because that's what I've learned that GMs on this forum want the most. Not caring about if their players are enjoying the game and just doing whatever they feel like.

A1C Bronymous Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:52 pm

Kris, you should have 2 Pips, if you used Strength of Stone last turn, which is a +1 move. Or,if you were using Stone Strike again, then use one of the +pip moves you have- they both damage it. Or get rid of your hammer and do something else.

Can I just quickly see if I'm understanding what happened with SOA1? Rolf would have killed it, but its trait let it revert to 1 hp, and then it reacted with (or just used on its turn?) the suplex on him. Then Zthulan did kill it, which then prompted a different trait reaction, which let it use the suplex again. Right?

No offense guys, maybe let me take the lead and take those hits. I'm at least designed to do better after getting almost destroyed.

Broken Logic Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:20 pm

It's not like we have a choice in who gets hit XD.

A1C Bronymous Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:34 pm

They're hitting the ones who kill/would have killed them. Simple enough. Someone put a save ends on it, I'll see if I can't eat up the next suplex.

Ramsus Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:42 pm

Or you guys could just kill it quickly so it just does the less damaging move I just made it do to me. Also, it kinda doesn't matter what our HP is at, even if someone is KOed since the fight will be over once we kill it.

Kris_The_Guest Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:14 pm

Today, with the help of a friend, I realized something. I am leaving because I am not having fun. I have fun playing Pokemon. I have fun playing games by Atlus. I do not have fun here.

Good bye.

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