Zilean's Revenge (Part 3)

Ramsus wrote:Zarhon, are there gaps in this fencing big enough to see through? Even just a little.

Possibly, but you'd need to find such holes in the walls (perception), you'd be exposed whilst searching/peeking, and you'd probably have limited vision through said holes. Which side would you look for the holes? And you can somewhat see through the constructions, but those risk getting seen yourself.

It's still pretty much the dead of night right now. Morning is a bunch of hours away.

Ok, if it's dark we're fine. There's no way there's people looking every direction and will notice those of us who aren't good at stealth staying mostly still while those who are sneak around and find more places to hide and such.

Animal empathy got removed, whilst animal speak no longer needs it as a prerequisite - Zthulan, you pretty much got a utility talent freed up for picking.

Speaking of such, how do you want me to treat the "spirits" thing in general? It's a bit vaguely defined. Best way would probably be to have it act like animal speak (animals have spirits within or something). Could alternately be dead ghost-like things, semi-sentient energies... Though it then begs the question of how you'd be able to see such stuff (technically Rolf would be able to see spirits and magic better than Zthulan, thanks to his Magical Attunement racial), unless everyone else is able to as well.

Eh, who cares. He's supposed to be able to talk to spirits, just let Animal Speak extend to that for him. It's not a big deal.

Generally speaking, anyone the GM decides can see magic stuff can. Magical Attunement is just an assurance and/or for non-magic users. Otherwise every wizard character wouldn't be able to notice spells at all.

After much deliberation (Wikipedia, DnD, and World of Warcraft) I believe if treated as souls of both the living and the dead. Also if you're more inclined to World of Warcraft, Zthulan would also be influenced by the elements. In both Wiki and WoW, shamans commune with the spirit world and obtain knowledge and possible visions of the future.

I believe that seeing and hearing the spirits requires training/conditioning. This can apply to necromancers who also deal with spirits, who also probably have to undergo some ceremony to see the dead. Perhaps permission also has a factor (though for necromancers they probably ignore the spirits desire to remain invisible).

Not sure if I actually answered the issue or just went on a tangent that had NO relation to the question. Though if you want I could also either post or message you my reasons of how powers would manifest.

Also I think Dreamstride would be most appropriate. Vision quests FTW!

Hmm... Dreamstride sounds like a great excuse to have you "see" spirits, actually. And I'm somewhat inclined to have you speak with animals... Maybe a mix of both? You can talk with animals/spirits, but the spirits you only passively see in special conditions (e.g. hopped up on dream dust, magical stuff happening, some event that would cause spirit-distress or flocking...). The spirits themselves I'm a bit partial to being dead / elemental (we already got two of those in the party) / nature spirits (animalistic, and metaphors or something).

On the topic of such, by the way: Since it might cause some Decker issues, is everyone ok with Dreamstride focusing on Zthulan for the duration (juggling events between Zthulan and the party, switching from one to another), or do you want me to do it privately with Zthulan, whilst the rest do stuff normally? Keep in mind that Dream Stride leaves his "body" unguarded for up to an hour...

Yeah let's.... not do that. You're talking about potential weeks where the rest of us don't get to play so that one player can go do things that don't actually matter. Privately is fine I guess as long as you don't force us to stop and wait for it. Overall though, I just think the talent itself is a bad idea largely because of the Decker problems it creates.

Well, that issue can technically be rectified - Rolf, being able to see magic, might be able to see the "dreamwalking" Zthulan, allowing a modicum of cooperation alongside the rest of the group, as he dream-walks around, not to mention you have access to telepathy (indirect, but better than none).

Excluding the risk (especially with your particular opponent) and the technicalities of it, Dreamstriding is probably a great benefit for you, especially in a situation such as this.

So the question remains as to whether I make it PMs between me and Zthulan (since you can't see Zthulan) as the rest act, or whether I do it alongside everything else, going at a certain pace (probably bringing chronological confusion.

If you're working it so that we can still interact with him and he's largely still seeing the same world we are it's fine I suppose.

Well he's ethereal and invisible in that mode, so you'd be limited to vocal communication. He can probably speak with his dream-avatar (I think it needs ask question clarification). And yeah, he'd see the same world (otherwise there's no point in it, is there?), with possibly having spirits added in the mix, that the others wouldn't see without special magic or something.

So what with having FK Undead can Skitter see ghosts?

Well if you want Skitter, I see no real reason why that isn't an unreasonable effect.

I think the ability to see the dead for the sake of this game is not exclusively an 'in-game' talent; but a mixture of that, and if it makes sense for the fluff of your character.  Also sorry I didn't join in the chat today.  Was at work.

Ramsus wrote:So what with having FK Undead can Skitter see ghosts?

Well, freaky knowledge is just that, freaky knowledge, a bonus to rolls, experience with undead creatures, how they operate, and implied training as to how to deal with them. It doesn't really give you a passive ability to see/detect such entities, though you are more likely to notice or find clues/hints (e.g. traces of ectoplasm) of their presence or activity, or identify them as undead-related, assuming you make the relevant checks to do so.

And speaking of abilities, I believe a few racials, an expansion, and other errata were posted, so feel free to update that stuff. Spider Climb for Skitter was one of them, I think.

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Jeraylia considers the location for a moment, and comes to a realization - Since the explosion site was hosting an event that involved a large amount of beverages, easy access to a sewer system was a necessity. Assuming the explosion didn't damage the architecture below it, there should be sewers running beneath the square, which may allow for access within the war-camp's bounds. Locating an entrance, and navigating through them, however, is a different matter...

So Zthulan can see spirit and ghostly things all the time because of a talent he has and isn't using at the moment but, I can't see one very specific kind of creature from a talent that actually works passively? That seems super fair. It's not like there's an Undead Speak for me to even take if I wanted to.

And since nobody gave me an opinion on what combat talent to replace Syphon Life with after I asked twice I guess I'll just roll a die or something.
Edit: After looking over people's sheets it seems like it should have been pretty easy for someone to mention they already had Invigorating Strike. Also Zthulan needs to update Syphon Life to the new version since he had it too or change it out for something else that actually rolls a d8 or something.

Ramsus wrote:So Zthulan can see spirit and ghostly things all the time because of a talent he has and isn't using at the moment but, I can't see one very specific kind of creature from a talent that actually works passively? That seems super fair. It's not like there's an Undead Speak for me to even take if I wanted to.

Well is it fair for him to have a utility he cant use, because he can't see the things he can talk to, because they're kinda vague to begin with (that, and the original talent is also kinda not-useful in the middle of a city)?

If dream stride is going to be a thing, I'll probably make spirits visible (or audible) only when it is being used or in effect. For the actual "spirits" outside of that, they'll be visible (or just audible, but its clear where they are to anyone whos attentive, like Skitter) if Zthulan performs a ritual of some sort for such a purpose (the rest of you could probably join in as well, if you care about it), or they'll be visible to all because magic.

If Dreamstride will cause to many issues based the Decker Principle than I can change it by tomorrow night.

Well, did Zthulan have to "commune" with the spirits, like in a ritual, before? Or did he just see them passively? Because if the first, then make that ritual Dream Stride, and it'll be fine. If the latter, then why bother changing it? There's no UT for it, so just let him see them. Skitter, too, if he could before.

...Speaking of seeing stuff, Zthulan could take Arcane Eye. It would come in really handy for scouting situations like this.

Also, sorry for not posting in a while. Life and work have been a mess lately.

Bronymous wrote:Well, did Zthulan have to "commune" with the spirits, like in a ritual, before? Or did he just see them passively? Because if the first, then make that ritual Dream Stride, and it'll be fine.

That would actually make perfect sense. Because it says that Shaman heal the body by healing the soul. Which means a trip to the spirit world/plane. So perhaps just feeling and hearing what the spirits say would be a passive thing while actually talking to them requires Dream Stride.

Well, I'm okay with either using arcane eye to seeing the spirits (cause it sees otherwordly things and whatnot), or using dream stride to see/talk to the spirits as Zthulan suggested, whilst unaided/passively you'd at best hear the spirits, or get a "vibe" that there are some nearby, or were. It's really a no-issue to change utilities out, anyway.

Now then what are your characters doing in regards to the camp?

- You can pick a visible part of the camp to inspect more thorougly, which may or may not need a stealth check, depending on the method used.
- You've gleamed some info on the sewers (or rather, Jeraylia did), so you can make looking for/into that an option.
- You can choose to wait until "something else" happens (which may or may not help you).
- Or you can think up / enact whatever other plans/actions you can think up.

I already proposed that we have Koras go scout a place for Zephy to fly us over without being seen. Nobody responded.

Nodding at Skitter's suggestion Zthulan beckons Koras to scout for the elemental


Can't roll until later tonight. Zarhon, feel free to do the rolling to save time and even post a response if I take to long. Sorry!

Right, since Koras is essentially an NPC, I guess I'll roll for it... I'll assume it has the stats of a companion (+5 in all).

Koras perception:

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After flying all around the square for a while, the spirit returns to its master. It points him towards both the northwestern corner of the camp, near the lit tent, as well as the southeastern corner, near the shack.

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Speaking of NPCs, Zthulan, will you be taking up the new "companion" utility from the most recent expansion? It's pretty much exactly what you'd need to make Koras into a "pet" with actual mechanics.

Is Koras pointing to safe places for us to enter or people who are watching?