Flaws system

I don't know if implementing such a system would be wise as it opens the door to min/maxing but perhaps adding in flaws would allow for more flavorful characters.

Off the top of my head things like:
- blank flank
- clueless
- having no sense of personal space
- yada yada yada

Yeeeeees but it would also attract minmaxing.

I'm torn about a flaw system for two reasons.

1) I like how it opens the door to creating interesting roleplaying options. Making a character with flaws can round out the character.

2) I don't like how, historically, it's opened the door to hilarious min/maxing and savaging the roleplaying side in order to pimp the combat side.

That said, flaws are inherently a roleplaying choice. Why can't we make flaws that have costs hefty enough to balance their rewards? We put our toe in the water with Derp and it seems to be working well. The cost of a utility talent and 3x as many critical failures has proven absolutely fair for a Magic Point and enabled some interesting builds.

Flaws tend to get out of control when they offer some sort of irrelevant roleplaying problem in exchange for combat boosts - or a very narrow penalty. I remember once taking a flaw that read, "suffers a -2 to attack rolls against plant-type creatures".

I'd like to see more flaws like Derp, with penalties that arguably outweigh their benefits and affect the same element of the game. Derp affects your d20 rolls while a magic point offers a +10 bonus to them, or activating another roleplaying utility talent. This seems to make it a fair tradeoff and a very flavorful one.

Let's try dipping our toe in the water by making some flaws that would NOT attract min/maxers but would attract roleplayers. Start safe.

I would much prefer self-contained flaws as opposed to "gain a flaw, gain a trait" - just make them traits with noticeable down and upsides. Borrowing characteristics from the Mane 6, as examples:


Rooted to the Ground
Your flying becomes difficult (you take a -15 penalty to Precision and Athletics checks while flying) and you crash if such a check has a result of -5 or less* (you cannot take feats that improve your flying). You gain Freaky Knowledge; the bonus to the skill checks involving the two selected areas are +10 (applies only to the instance of Freaky Knowledge gained by this trait)

(in other words: Fluttershy, Sewing, Animal Care).
*Perhaps that needs to become a mechanic of flight or something similar? The concept that you "can" crash.


Enormous Ego
When you get a Cutie Mark Critical, you gain the following benefit for the next 6 hours: treat all successes of that skill as Cutie Mark Criticals for the next 6 hours (each success resets this timer).
However, any failure (for any skill) during this period negates that benefit immediately and becomes an automatic Critical Failure. Then, you may not activate this trait for the next day.
(When you get a Cutie Mark Critical, you may choose not to apply this trait)

(Dash much?)


Inexplicable Knowledge (requires at least 1 Freaky Knowledge and Twitchy Tail)
Preparation Time: 1 hour
Once per session, you can ask the DM a question related to an area of Freaky Knowledge you have. The DM must answer it truthfully, and with more detail than Twitchy Tail. You may not share knowledge gained in this way with the rest of the party or imply that you have such knowledge. (Ideally, the question should be asked and answered in secret without the rest of the party's knowledge)


And then as a mechanic, you could probably describe them as follows:
Flaws can only be taken at Level 1. Each flaw has an "Advantage" and a "Disadvantage." Starting at Level X (pick a relatively "late game" level), you may choose to not gain the benefits of that Level and instead remove the Disadvantage from one flaw you have.

(Because arguably, after Season 2, Fluttershy is now a "poor" or "average" flyer, Dash's ego is in check, and everypony trusts Pinkie's inexplicable knowledge)

I like this a lot MirrorImage. Can we just work them into the system as utility talents, or should we make a separate flaw supplement?

I would say they're utility talents / traits / whatever you want to call them. Either way, not something separate.

MirrorImage wrote:I would say they're utility talents / traits / whatever you want to call them. Either way, not something separate.

Probably utility talents then (traits are likely going to be for combat). That keeps things simple and makes it even harder to min/max with them - since they have an additional cost of spending a utility talent point on them. Like Derp.

This is great. Great job!

Yeah, Utility Talents is what I was meaning. It's after midnight and I suspect I'm thinking a little too much Fallout at the moment for some reason.

Either way, one more idea-*OH HEY! A SHINY THING!*

Easily Distracted (Alt: ADHLAP, or "Attention Defi-Hey Look, A Pony")
Any time you perform a Skill Check or Combat Maneuver, roll a d20. A result of 1 leaves you Stunned for the round (without performing the action). While stunned by this Talent, you gain +5 to Horse-Sense skill checks and have a chance to notice details players without this Talent may not have noticed (of varying levels of usefulness).

MirrorImage wrote:Yeah, Utility Talents is what I was meaning. It's after midnight and I suspect I'm thinking a little too much Fallout at the moment for some reason.

Either way, one more idea-*OH HEY! A SHINY THING!*

Easily Distracted (Alt: ADHLAP, or "Attention Defi-Hey Look, A Pony")
Any time you perform a Skill Check or Combat Maneuver, roll a d20. A result of 1 leaves you Stunned for the round (without performing the action). While stunned by this Talent, you gain +5 to Horse-Sense skill checks and have a chance to notice details players without this Talent may not have noticed (of varying levels of usefulness).

I like the idea. Only thing is we want to keep utility talents from affecting combat (another way to keep flaws in line). Perhaps...

Easily Distracted
Gain a +3 bonus to perception checks to spotting things that are either moving or shiny (+5 if they're both). You suffer a -3 penalty to all other perception checks.


Hmm... I think that fits the flavor, but I don't think it's attractive enough yet.

I agree that Utility Talents shouldn't affect combat. One of the biggest draws of the system is that combat doesn't affect non-combat, and vice versa.

Enormous Ego
When you get a Cutie Mark Critical, you gain the following benefit for the next 6 hours: treat all successes of that skill as Cutie Mark Criticals for the next 6 hours (each success resets this timer).
However, any failure (for any skill) during this period negates that benefit immediately and becomes an automatic Critical Failure. Then, you may not activate this trait for the next day.
(When you get a Cutie Mark Critical, you may choose not to apply this trait)

Can you clarify what you mean by "for the next day"? Do you mean "For the next 24 hours"? Perhaps "Between your next two significant rest periods"? Or did you mean you can't activate it for the rest of the current day? Because I noticed there's no x/day for this skill, and if a failure during the 6 hour period causes you to be unable to activate it the next day, that would mean you can activate it again for the current day.

I suppose that's a play-test/balance issue. I thought of it as 24 hours, though "next significant rest" could be just as valid.

Let's just use the "Extended Rest" thing from D&D and other systems. 8 hours of rest and your stuff resets.

Hah, I just made this comment elsewhere. Yeah, I agree. Extended rest works very well.

Blank Flank: Gain Applejack of all trades, even if you are not an Earth Pony. Lose trait once you roll a nat20 when thematically approprate and gain a cutie mark in that skill.

LoganAura wrote:Blank Flank: Gain Applejack of all trades, even if you are not an Earth Pony. Lose trait once you roll a nat20 when thematically approprate and gain a cutie mark in that skill.

Aha! The Blank Flank would be a perfect concept for a flaw! Great thinking, we so need to come up with a polished version of that.

Everyone, try coming up with a variety of designs for a Blank Flank utility talent.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Everyone, try coming up with a variety of designs for a Blank Flank utility talent.

Perhaps you could spread out the five points you'd normally earn from a cutie mark among other skills, so long as no skill gets more than +2. When you earn a cutie mark, those bonuses coalesce into one +5 bonus again.

Blank flank: Losing the +5 cutie mark bonus, a Blank flank has the potential to be anything! They gain +1 in all skills. At a nat20 during a dramatic moment, such as attempting to fix an extremely broken friendship, healing somepony who is almost about to die, etc, switch this talent for another utility and gain a Curie mark in that skill.

I point you to the Fillys and Colts topic.

What about unicorns with broken horns or pegasi who can't fly?

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:

LoganAura wrote:Blank Flank: Gain Applejack of all trades, even if you are not an Earth Pony. Lose trait once you roll a nat20 when thematically approprate and gain a cutie mark in that skill.

Aha! The Blank Flank would be a perfect concept for a flaw! Great thinking, we so need to come up with a polished version of that.

Everyone, try coming up with a variety of designs for a Blank Flank utility talent.

Blank Flank
You don't get a cutie mark skill, cutie mark critical, or the +5 bonus that entails, but you may choose 2 attributes and receive +1 to each skill they effect.

Perhaps incorporate LoganAura's idea about gaining a cutie mark and losing the Blank Flank talent, but getting to pick a new one its place?
Also, this might fit in well with Demonu's idea for a foal template.

elfowlgirl wrote:What about unicorns with broken horns or pegasi who can't fly?

Hmm, interesting question. I have a one-winged pegasus OC. So...

Scarred
Pick one racial trait and lose it forever. Instead of a +3 bonus for trained skills, you get a +4 bonus for trained skills. You cannot take this talent multiple times.

And just for fun

Nightmare
While using this talent, you cannot use magic points or be affected by talents that require magic points. Every minute you use this talent, you lose a sanity point. Gain +3 to all rolls.

The sleep ones are based off my character.

Power napper
Whenever you fall asleep for any reason, you are nearly impossible to wake up: Nothing of the direct intervention of grievous bodily harm, explosions, Celestia or Pinkie Pie will wake you. Skill checks to wake you up require a DC40, or a critical success. In return, you cannot die or suffer serious permanent injuries whilst asleep. You'll feel the pain when you wake up though. If you go through a nap relatively unharmed, the incredibly restful nap will give you a bonus of double the amount of hours you spent asleep, that lasts the amount of time you spent sleeping. You can sleep a maximum of 8 hours (In-game). Effects transfer through sessions.

Insomniac
You have difficulties falling asleep due to a magical anomaly in your body, causing you to be in a perpetual drowsy state. You are immune to combat and utility talents that would cause you to lose consciousness. For every two hours (in-game) you spend without sleeping, all of your skill checks suffer a -2 penalty, stacking up to -12. Six hours after you reach a -12 penalty, you'll instantly fall asleep. This effect transfers through sessions. Attempting to sleep on your own requires a successful DC20 stealth check from anypony, to make proper sleeping conditions, a DC20 endurance check to fall asleep, and you must have a -6 or higher penalty from drowsyness already. For every hour of sleep, your penalty is reduced, and later, increases by three. You bonus can only rise up to how high your penalty was, and is reduced by four every two hours. In addition, your cutie mark and trained skill bonuses are doubled to a +10 and +6 bonus.

Example: You get a -12 penalty for not sleeping 12 hours. When you go to sleep, you sleep 8 hours, 4 to put the penalty to zero, and another 4 to gain a +12 bonus. Then you lose the bonus over a period of three hours, before you start getting drowsy again. If you go to sleep with a -4 penalty, you can only sleep three hours (1+1/2 for losing the penalty, 1+1/2 for the bonus), and you can only get a +4 bonus from sleeping.

Narcoleptic sleepwalker
You tend to fall asleep suddenly and without warning. Whenever you fail a skill check, flip a coin. If it's tails, you instantly fall asleep. In response, your body starts sleepwalking, and acts as if on auto-pilot. The following changes occur in this state:
- The pony is controllable during this state, as long as it has Blindsight.
- Pony gains Blindsight, which uses either hearing(sound vibrations), wings (wind, moisture and air vibrations), or magic (magic) to function, depending on their race. Should the chosen method be disabled (made deaf, wings hurt, magic lost), Blindsight is temporarily lost and pony stands in place.
- Cannot distinguish colors, visual contrast, or read.
- Immune to “gaze” attacks, unless eyes are held open by somepony.
- Immune to sleep-inducing utility and combat talents.
- Cannot coherently respond / converse with others. Talking is limited to sleepwalk mumbling, snoring and gibberish. A roll could be made to try to get a few meaningful words through, however.
- Cannot remember any events that happen whilst asleep. A roll can be made to try to “remember your dreams” for vague details from the DM
- You can eat and drink in this state.
- Combat and skill checks occur normally. Cannot attempt checks that require eyesight or talking.
- Pony is woken up if they get heads on a coin toss. Coin is tossed every time pony takes at least 10 damage, every successful skill check, or once their hp falls below half their maximum.

Frightening fan
You are being stalked by a very creepy pony that is obsessed with you, controlled by the DM. They will inconvenience, bother and otherwise terrify you three times per session, in an attempt to separate you from your allies and trapping you with them. If they succeed, for the next two hours, they will [REDACTED] and you suffer a -5 penalty to all checks for the rest of the session, or until you achieve a cutie mark critical success. The creepy stalker will also be useful at times: The player can ask the DM to have the stalker manipulate events around them to prevent one skill failure, send you a single useful gift and tranquilize one unfriendly pony per session.

Celebrity chaser
You are obsessed with celebrities, and will go out of your way to serve them or obey their any whim, seeing them as a ticket to personal glory. Celebrities include: Celestia, Luna, Mane Six, Photo Finish, Iron Will, Hoity Toity, Fancypants, Sapphire Shores, Wonderbolts, Shining Armor, Cadence, or any other famous, powerful or generally popular and famous individuals that is friendly towards you (Hostiles don't count). The player must attempt to please every and any request given to them by any such celebrity: Failing results in a -2 penalty to all skill checks for the rest of the session, stacking for each failure. Succeeding gives them the opposite, a +2 bonus. Becoming hostile or unfriendly with a celebrity gives you a -6 penalty. In addition, they are considered as having Freaky Knowledge on any celebrities they know about, or meet. They cannot willingly harm a celebrity, either directly or indirectly.

(Show example: Rarity vs Photo Finish/Fancypants/Hoity Toity/Sapphire Shores)

Infallible Idol
Choose or invent/assign a single friendly celebrity, with whom your character is in constant contact with. You will obey their wishes and desires above all else, ignoring even your own well being and possibly that of your party. Everything that can be seen as a failure, or disobeying against their wishes causes sanity loss, a -3 penalty to skill checks for the session, and two of your utility talents of your choise lose one of their daily charges. You gain Freaky knowledge on all aspects related to the celebrity, including the skill they are famous for. You can gain cutie mark critical successes in that particular skill. Persuasion checks always fail against the celebrity, as their words are absolute. You cannot harm them in any way, even if they try to harm you. If you become hostile with your chosen celebrity, you gain a -10 bonus to all skill checks for the rest of the session, and must choose a new celebrity for the next session.

(Show example: Twilight Sparkle & Celestia)

Oooh, I know!

Mundane
You start the day with 0 magic points. However you get an extra training bonus.

Combat oriented
You gain +1 combat ability. Since this requires you to spend the equivalent of one Utility Talent... yeah.

I vote we move this topic to Talents.

Masterweaver wrote:Oooh, I know!

Mundane
You start the day with 0 magic points. However you get an extra training bonus.

Starting with 0 magic points is an appealing flaw, but the bonus would have to be massive. Magic Points are the most powerful and dramatic element of the system. Also, this means they can't activate their element - which should be factored in. An option of perhaps only letting them spend magic points to activate their element might be good too.

Masterweaver wrote:Combat oriented
You gain +1 combat ability. Since this requires you to spend the equivalent of one Utility Talent... yeah.

Definitely don't want to let players trade out utility for combat or vice versa, due to wanting to keep the utility and combat elements separate. I remember the pain of building in systems that let you use feats for either combat bonuses or roleplaying bonuses... And I could never justify not taking a combat bonus one, despite how cool or flavorful the roleplay ones looked. That's something I love about building characters in this system, I can build the flavorful side of my character without losing options to give myself more powerful combat abilities.

Masterweaver wrote:I vote we move this topic to Talents.

Due to the way we're now treating flaws as utility talents, I vote yay.

Bonkers
You lose a sanity point every day, but you do not lose sanity points on a crit fail, only on a Cutie Mark Crit fail.