[Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
+10
Kindulas
Dusk Raven
Stairc -Dan Felder
Nehiel Mori
A1C Bronymous
Philadelphus
ZamuelNow
Paper Shadow
Ramsus
Zarhon
14 posters
Pony Tales: Aspirations of Harmony :: Developer's Corner :: Game Mechanics Discussion :: Combat Talents
Page 1 of 3
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3 
![[Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif)
[Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Zarhon Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:36 am
We all know the various "must have", or "overpowered" talent picks. But what about the others, the ones that are rarely picked for various reasons? Discuss whatever combat talents you consider either neglected, inefficient to use, impractical, or otherwise "not worth picking", compared to other options.
Here are the talents I consider fit in such a category:
Note: The above stuff is my personal opinion / basic observations / experience - feel free to correct/criticize with your own opinions/experience.
P.S: I'll be making a similar thread for combat traits and combat items later, for discussing the other combat-oriented stuff. Stick to combat talents for this one.
Here are the talents I consider fit in such a category:
- Spoiler:
This talent doesn't seem like a worthwhile pick, compared to other defensive options such as Blink (same cost, better effect, interrupt), or Blast from the Past (extra pip cost, damage, complete immunity). It's a standard action, so you can't keep it up easily, and due to its nature, isn't worthwhile for any "tanks" that rely on actually getting hit by enemy attacks.[-2] Smoke Bomb - Standard Utility
Until the end of your next turn, creatures that attack you must flip a coin before it attacks. If it loses the flip, the attack does not affect you.
On its own and unboosted by items or traits, this conjuration weapon is extremely inefficient and impractical for its intended "tank" uses:[-7] Granite Axe – Minor Utility
You conjure a Granite Axe in your hands. You can dismiss the Granite Axe as a free action. While you are wielding a Granite Axe, you cannot use your other combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.- Spoiler:
- Stone Skin - Trait
You have resist 1. If you already have resistance, increase that resistance by 1.
[+3] Earth’s Embrace – Standard Attack
Target creature takes 3 damage and you gain resist 2 until the end of your next turn.
[+1] Strength of Stone – Standard Attack
Deal 1d8+X damage to target creature, where X is the number of temporary hit points you have.
[-1] Stone Strike – Standard Attack
Roll 2d4. Deal that much damage to target creature and you gain that many temporary hit points.
[-2] Grasping Granite - Reaction Attack
Trigger - An enemy deals damage to an ally,
Effect - Deal 2d8 damage to the triggering enemy and that enemy is weakened (save ends).
[-4] Earthquake - Standard Attack
Deal 2d10 damage to up to six enemies. Those creatures cannot attack your allies until the end of your next turn. The Granite Axe vanishes.
- It has no minor actions to utilize, meaning you spend many turns just building PiPs, and then another turn to use the minus talents.
- Its defensive bonuses are extremely minor (1-3 resist, or 2d4 temporary hit points), meaning you cannot rely on it to keep you alive without ally support or items/traits, to deal with anything that deals non-minion damage. Considering conjuration weapons vanish when KO, this means you risk 7 Pips on surviving without your other talents. This is a really bad "tank" weapon, as such.
- It's offensive capabilities are limited both by the time it takes to utilize them (due to standard actions), and the fact you need to AVOID getting damaged (for temporary hit points damage bonus, and the reaction attack) for them to work, which the conjuration weapon has no options for (and disables any you might have had).
- Earthquake can potentially deal very minor damage for the cost/time it takes to activate, and puts you at extreme risk afterwards, as you become the only available target to attack, with no pips / defenses to protect yourself with - against a fight with multiple enemies / minons, this can be a game over for your character.
This seems combo-inefficient as a standard attack. Maybe a minor?[-1] Lightning Bolt - Standard Attack
Deal 1d10+X damage to target creature where X equals the number of pips you spent last turn.
Seems a bit useless - there are already items that allow you do to this without taking up a combat talent slot, and initiative isn't very important unless you rely on it with "first in initiative bonus" items, in which case the pip cost can prevent viable combos from happening, and delays you in combat.[-2] Lightning Pace - Reaction Utility
Trigger - You roll initiative and dislike the result.
Effect - You gain a +7 bonus to your initiative check.
The halved damage doesn't make it very effective against non-minion enemies, nor does it make it very worthwhile to use against allies.[-X] Thunderstorm - Standard Attack
You unleash X bolts of lightning. Each bolt of lightning targets a random creature and deals half of 2d10 damage.
Overshadowed and less effective than Martyr’s Blessing.[-2] Defender - Interrupt Utility
Trigger – An ally is targeted by an attack.
Effect - The triggering attack hits you instead.
Seems pretty cost-inefficient for its benefit.[-5] Pincer Maneuver - Standard Utility
You and target ally can each take a standard action.
Very inefficient as a standard. 3 hp, on its own, isn't worth skipping a turn, compared to using a stronger heal effect.[-1] Grace - Standard Utility [Created by Azureink]
Up to six target creatures gain 3 hp.
Another on-its-own-inefficient conjuration weapon:[-7] Death’s Scythe – Minor Utility
You conjure a Necro Scythe in your hands. You can dismiss the Necro Scythe as a free action. While you are wielding a Necro Scythe, you cannot use your other combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.- Spoiler:
- Death’s Shadow - Trait
All enemies suffer a -1 penalty to saving throws
[+3] Death Cyclone – Standard Attack
Roll a d6. Gain that much life and deal that much damage to target creature and all creatures adjacent to it
[+1] Grievous Wound – Standard Attack
Choose one;
A) Target creature suffers 1d8 ongoing damage (save ends).
B) Roll a d8. If target creature is suffering from ongoing damage, increase that damage by half the result..
[-1] Soul Claimer – Reaction Utility
Trigger – You reduce a creature to 0hp or less.
Effect - You gain 1d8 hp.
[-3] Wither - Minor Utility
Up to six target creatures suffering from (save ends) effects are weakened (save ends).
[-4] Death Stalks You – Standard Attack
Target Enemy is subjected to your “Mark of the Reaper” (save ends). While the target is subjected to your “Mark of the Reaper,” it suffers vulnerability equal to the amount of ongoing damage its taking, and whenever the creature takes damage, you gain that much life. When this effect ends, the Necro Scythe vanishes.
- it heavily relies on enemies not saving against ongoing damage for multiple rounds.
- its gained trait is extremely minor and doesn't stack with other such save-ends penalties.
- slow pip gain due to most options being standard actions.
- Wither relies on sources of ongoing damage other than yourself (you can only apply one per turn, assuming enemies don't save), if it is to be used to full effect against multiple enemies.
- the ultimate relies on the target already having an ongoing damage effect from a previous round/source to function.
Seems too costly to use effectively, or on its trigger, and useless against solos. Unless you have an abundance of Pips for a specific [-] ability, or are willing to do a [+] action at a net loss of pips / no profit, there's not much point in triggering it.[-4] Death Is Power - Reaction Utility
Trigger - An enemy is reduced to 0 hp or less.
Effect - You may immediately take a standard action.
The gained benefit isn't worth it, compared to other pip boosters, as it does nothing a majority of the time, and is useless with the "unacceptable" trait. It probably needs to be ally-castable as well.[+3] Take Aim - Standard Utility
You may reroll all 1s on your next attack.
Impractical to trigger or combo effectively (either by forcing enemies to attack you, or by making yourself more survivable) due to its cost and trigger requirements, as well as being a reaction.[-3] Against The Odds - Immediate Reaction
Trigger - An enemy deals damage to you after another enemy has already dealt damage to you this round.
Effect - Deal 1d12 damage to each enemy that has damaged you this round. You gain 1d10 temporary hp.
Inefficient and costly at its purpose of "assisting" a tank-like character.[-3] Alluring Alto - Standard Utility
Flip a coin for any number of target creatures. If you win the flip, that creature must attack target ally if able until the end of your next turn.
Completely overshadowed by Hellfire Rain (more targets, stronger effect, slightly higher cost).[-3] Venom-Serpent's Strike - Standard Attack
Up to two target creatures suffer 5 ongoing damage (save ends).
Used once (per enemy), becomes useless afterwards, and somewhat detrimental if more than one ally has it in a party. Give it an extra, negligible effect, or "prediction" ability (e.g. force a DM to tell which ally is getting targeted next by a target enemy)? Or allow it to do pip tracking (to supplement any abilities that alter enemy pips)?
[+3] Deathwatch - Standard Utility
You learn target creature’s current hp.
Overshadowed by Miracle, very impractical both in cost and usability (standard ability, requires an already-unconscious ally who then is vulnerable afterwards and almost guaranteed to be re-KOd from any attack...).[-6] IT IS NOT THIS DAY! - Standard Utility
The sheer power of your voice motivates target unconscious ally to get up. They immediately gain 1d4 hp and perform one of their three Special Moves (their choice).
Note: The above stuff is my personal opinion / basic observations / experience - feel free to correct/criticize with your own opinions/experience.
P.S: I'll be making a similar thread for combat traits and combat items later, for discussing the other combat-oriented stuff. Stick to combat talents for this one.
Last edited by Zarhon on Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:04 am; edited 2 times in total
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Ramsus Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:42 am
Why aren't Charm and the Paranoia-likes on that list?
Ramsus- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 5688
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 39
Location : California
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Zarhon Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:54 am
Probably because I missed them (took me an hour to do the ones above, give me a break!), or didn't find anything wrong with them, personally. Feel free to point out anything you think is wrong/missed - that's what the thread is for. I can't do all the pointing-out.Ramsus wrote:Why aren't Charm and the Paranoia-likes on that list?
Charm does seem a bit inefficient as a standard action, but also seems blatantly broken if set as a minor. Not sure how one would go utilizing it, but I think there might be combos that benefit it. Hard to say.
Paranoia seems pretty good if you ask me - pip boosting and an enemy suffers for it (which for strong enemies can be quite a bit). The only downside of that is they pick the talent, and they probably get pips out of the deal.
I'll be making threads for the items/traits at a later time - gonna be busy soon and it will probably take a while to type it out.
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Ramsus Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:54 am
Honestly, I'm not sure Charm can be fixed to be viable in this system. It's a waste of time and pips as a Standard and I can only imagine someone would cause something terrible to happen if it was a Minor you could actually afford to use. I suppose there might be hope for it as a Reaction? (Not a Free Action or Interrupt though.)
As for Paranoia, it causes the enemies to gain pips by doing the minimal possible damaging effect they can do to each other. On average this is going to be more detrimental to the party than to the enemies. I still think it'd be a pretty simple fix to just have the enemies not gain pips that way.
As for Paranoia, it causes the enemies to gain pips by doing the minimal possible damaging effect they can do to each other. On average this is going to be more detrimental to the party than to the enemies. I still think it'd be a pretty simple fix to just have the enemies not gain pips that way.
Ramsus- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 5688
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 39
Location : California
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Paper Shadow Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:40 am
Paranoia can be more useful if you do a Minor Attack into Throw the Gauntlet into Paranoia. Since the enemy makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target, the attack procs the 2d10 damage...
Paper Shadow- Smile Like You Mean It
- Posts : 3759
Join date : 2012-11-23
Age : 30
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Zarhon Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:17 am
Paranoia can also be rather useful against minions - they usually don't have any [-] pip attacks (since they don't live long enough to use them), and generally have a fixed amount of damage they can inflict, or annoying stuff like status effects. One minion can thus kill another at little downside, or put a "unique" status effect on their leader. And if the boss has some kind of reactive, damaging trait, it can even lead to a "suicide". Same applies if you force an attack against a "kamikaze" type mob. There's also the fact that the enemies are usually limited in their abilities by pip costs - if their pips puts them into position to only use a pip booster attack, or a minus attack (due to having only pip booster utilities rather than attacks), they HAVE to use that, even if its detrimental (e.g. an aoe attack against a bunch of minions).
As for charm, you could technically combo it with gather energy (for instance, with perfect focus). Since it's a save-ends condition, it can last more than one round, so it's not a waste under the assumtion they can't save against it. In fact, it might render an enemy incapable of attacking you for an entire fight, if you are lucky. It also serves the purpose of applying a save-ends condition for any effects that require them on a target. You can also place the effect on yourself/allies for transferal purposes, or to prevent friendly fire from random-creature abilities.
As for charm, you could technically combo it with gather energy (for instance, with perfect focus). Since it's a save-ends condition, it can last more than one round, so it's not a waste under the assumtion they can't save against it. In fact, it might render an enemy incapable of attacking you for an entire fight, if you are lucky. It also serves the purpose of applying a save-ends condition for any effects that require them on a target. You can also place the effect on yourself/allies for transferal purposes, or to prevent friendly fire from random-creature abilities.
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
ZamuelNow Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:25 pm
The Martyr’s Blessing <-> Defender exchange is sort of interesting. I think it's a situation where the way a move was used (minor versus interrupt) is actually supposed to be part of each move's use based on things like daze, traits, weapons, etc.
Grace seems to have two things in mind. First, despite being a low amount, it's a non-random healing amount. Second, it hits all alies (barring a summon heavy team). Not saying it doesn't need a buff, just looking at the possible intent behind it.
I've always viewed the rez in IT IS NOT THIS DAY! as the side effect and the actual effect is access to the Special of choice for a player. Any buffs on this move may be stifled until the discussion of Special Move balance starts back up.
I'm curious what people would suggest for buffing Death’s Scythe and Granite Axe since their options seem interesting in concept.
Grace seems to have two things in mind. First, despite being a low amount, it's a non-random healing amount. Second, it hits all alies (barring a summon heavy team). Not saying it doesn't need a buff, just looking at the possible intent behind it.
I've always viewed the rez in IT IS NOT THIS DAY! as the side effect and the actual effect is access to the Special of choice for a player. Any buffs on this move may be stifled until the discussion of Special Move balance starts back up.
I'm curious what people would suggest for buffing Death’s Scythe and Granite Axe since their options seem interesting in concept.
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Philadelphus Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:01 pm
Hmmm, I'd have to disagree on this one. I came very, very close to taking it in my current game. [+3] talents by definition don't do a lot, and it serves as a handy toned-down version of Unacceptable!, leaving you free to take another trait instead. If I hadn't decided to go for a special-oriented build and taken Critfisher as my [+3], I'd probably have taken this one.Zarhon wrote:Here are the talents I consider fit in such a category:The gained benefit isn't worth it, compared to other pip boosters, as it does nothing a majority of the time, and is useless with the "unacceptable" trait. It probably needs to be ally-castable as well.[+3] Take Aim - Standard Utility
You may reroll all 1s on your next attack.
Philadelphus- Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 734
Join date : 2012-07-18
Age : 34
Location : Hilo, Hawai‘i
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
A1C Bronymous Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:41 pm
Defender has an advantage of Martyr's blessing in that its reactionary, and you can use it on anyone you need to. Martyr's blessing has to be declared for an ally ahead of time, hoping that that ally will get attacked. But if he doesn't, and someone else does, then you can use Defender as well and save them from the hit. They really should be used in conjunction, assuming you can support the total pip cost with your standard each turn.
Then again, that's all assuming you are expecting to take damage, and have either another interrupt/reaction waiting, or a plan for getting bloodied or ko'd. If you're just trying to deter someone from getting killed this round, then Martyr's blessing is probably better. Or then again, defender, because again you can use it on anyone, and free yourself a minor action ahead of time- or if you didn't get an "ahead of time" yet, and don't have martyr's blessing in place.
You really should just have both.
Then again, that's all assuming you are expecting to take damage, and have either another interrupt/reaction waiting, or a plan for getting bloodied or ko'd. If you're just trying to deter someone from getting killed this round, then Martyr's blessing is probably better. Or then again, defender, because again you can use it on anyone, and free yourself a minor action ahead of time- or if you didn't get an "ahead of time" yet, and don't have martyr's blessing in place.
You really should just have both.
Last edited by Bronymous on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
A1C Bronymous- Air Commander, Equestrian Armies Pegasus Corps, Eastern Skies Command
- Gender :
Posts : 5732
Join date : 2012-07-18
Age : 33
Location : Columbus, MS
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Nehiel Mori Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:44 pm
Death is Power probably should cost 3 pips instead of 4. It grants you a standard action, which is priced at 3 pips.
Nehiel Mori- Designer
- Posts : 160
Join date : 2012-11-02
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Stairc -Dan Felder Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:21 pm
Smoke Bomb might be cool as some sort of minor action. It'd be awesome with defender shtick.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
ZamuelNow Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:15 am
A proposal to buffing Granite Axe:
A lot of the changes are subtle but based on Zarhon's suggestions. More focused on better tanking than more damage by changing the reaction to an interrupt, higher base resistance, more temp HP options, and adding a weaken to the ultimate's effect.
- Granite Axe - Revised:
- [-7] Granite Axe – Minor Utility
You conjure a Granite Axe in your hands. You can dismiss the Granite Axe as a free action. While you are wielding a Granite Axe, you cannot use your other combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.
Stone Skin - Trait
You have resist 2. If you already have resistance, increase that resistance by 2.
[+3] Earth’s Embrace – Standard Attack
Target creature takes 3 damage and you gain resist 2 until the end of your next turn.
[+1] Strength of Stone – Standard Attack
Deal 1d8+X damage to target creature, where X is the number of temporary hit points you have.
[-1] Stone Strike – Minor Attack
Roll 2d4. Deal that much damage to target creature and you gain that many temporary hit points.
[-2] Grasping Granite - Interrupt Attack
Trigger - An enemy deals damage to an ally
Effect - Deal 2d8 damage to the triggering enemy and you gain that many temporary hit points.
[-4] Earthquake - Standard Attack
Deal 2d10 damage to up to six enemies. Those creatures are weakened and cannot attack your allies until the end of your next turn. The Granite Axe vanishes.
A lot of the changes are subtle but based on Zarhon's suggestions. More focused on better tanking than more damage by changing the reaction to an interrupt, higher base resistance, more temp HP options, and adding a weaken to the ultimate's effect.
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Zarhon Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:44 am
ZamuelNow wrote:A proposal to buffing Granite Axe:
- Granite Axe - Revised:
You conjure a Granite Axe in your hands. You can dismiss the Granite Axe as a free action. While you are wielding a Granite Axe, you cannot use your other combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.
Stone Skin - Trait
You have resist 2. If you already have resistance, increase that resistance by 2.
[+3] Earth’s Embrace – Standard Attack
Target creature takes 3 damage and you gain resist 2 until the end of your next turn.
[+1] Strength of Stone – Standard Attack
Deal 1d8+X damage to target creature, where X is the number of temporary hit points you have.
[-1] Stone Strike – Minor Attack
Roll 2d4. Deal that much damage to target creature and you gain that many temporary hit points.
[-2] Grasping Granite - Interrupt Attack
Trigger - An enemy deals damage to an ally
Effect - Deal 2d8 damage to the triggering enemy and you gain that many temporary hit points.
[-4] Earthquake - Standard Attack
Deal 2d10 damage to up to six enemies. Those creatures are weakened and cannot attack your allies until the end of your next turn. The Granite Axe vanishes.
A lot of the changes are subtle but based on Zarhon's suggestions. More focused on better tanking than more damage by changing the reaction to an interrupt, higher base resistance, more temp HP options, and adding a weaken to the ultimate's effect.
Ooh, looks very neat - Now you can do sustainable damage with the interrupt to allow you to use the temp hp to its full value, and earthquake is no longer a guaranteed KO with weakness.
It still suffers from the problem of you not being able to do all that much if you are focused on / fighting solo, though, since you lose your temp hp bonus damage from the attacks, and can't use the interrupt if your allies aren't attacked.
You also still have no way to control/choose who the enemies will attack (other than earthquake).
Maybe grasping granite should include you as well in its trigger? If its a reaction, then that would give you temp hp after the attack, giving you bonus damage/defense afterwards. If its an interrupt, it more or less negates most of the damage it would do.
Or if that's too powerful, give an extra "reaction" that only triggers from you being hit, and is more focused on defense / sustaining your damage, even when you're tanking:
- Idea 1:
- [-1] Sticks & Stones - Reaction Utility
Trigger: You are brought down to 0 temporary hit points, after being dealt damage.
Effect: Regain the temporary hit points you lost from the triggering damage.
E.g. You have 5 temporary hp, then take 12 damage -> After using the ability above, you take damage, but get to keep your temporary hit points afterwards.
- Idea 2:
- [-2] Reactive Shell - Reaction Utility
Trigger: You lose any amount of your non-temporary hit points from an enemy ability.
Effect: Immediately gain an equal amount of temporary hit points.
E.g. You take 20 damage in a big attack -> You are brought to 10 hp, but get 20 temporary hp after using the ability, increasing survivability and sustaining your damage.
Hmmm... Both of these could work as stand-alone talents, if their costs were balanced out...
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
ZamuelNow Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:02 pm
Zarhon wrote:Ooh, looks very neat - Now you can do sustainable damage with the interrupt to allow you to use the temp hp to its full value, and earthquake is no longer a guaranteed KO with weakness.
It still suffers from the problem of you not being able to do all that much if you are focused on / fighting solo, though, since you lose your temp hp bonus damage from the attacks, and can't use the interrupt if your allies aren't attacked.
You also still have no way to control/choose who the enemies will attack (other than earthquake).
In my eyes, the very point of a tank is being a team player so I'm not particularly worried about the situation of fighting by yourself. However, with this being a summoned weapon, it simply shouldn't be used when solo or should be dismissed since dismissals are free actions. It's sorta interesting how the conjured weapons are play styles of their own. As far as more options for battle control, thought about changing one move in the update:
- Earth's Embrace - Revised:
- [+3] Earth’s Embrace – Standard Utility
You gain resist 2 until the end of your next turn. Target enemy is subject to your “Mark of Erosion” (save ends). A creature subjected to your “Mark of Erosion” takes 3 damage each time they make an attack that does not include you as a target.
Less direct damage but it's the gift that keeps on giving if an enemy attacks other targets. Still allows damage boosting options since it's "damage" but reacts with some things differently due to being changed to a utility.
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
ZamuelNow Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:59 pm
Another revisal proposal
The sheer act of revamping the trait would make the entire weapon more playable. Small tweaks were made so AoE capacity is slightly increased and it could better maintain momentum once it gets going.
- Death's Scythe - Revised:
- [-7] Death’s Scythe – Minor Utility
You conjure a Necro Scythe in your hands. You can dismiss the Necro Scythe as a free action. While you are wielding a Necro Scythe, you cannot use your other combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.
Death’s Shadow - Trait
Enemies must roll twice and use the lower result on saving throws made to save against (save ends) effects you bestow.
[+3] Death Cyclone – Standard Attack
Roll a d6. Gain that much life and deal that much damage to target creature and all creatures adjacent to it
[+1] Grievous Wound – Standard Attack
Choose one;
A) Target creature suffers 1d8 ongoing damage (save ends).
B) Roll a d8. If target creature is suffering from ongoing damage, increase that damage by half the result.
C) Target creature and all creatures adjacent to it suffer 1d4 ongoing damage (save ends).
[-1] Soul Claimer – Reaction Utility
Trigger – You reduce a creature to 0hp or less.
Effect - You gain 1d8 hp.
[-3] Wither - Minor Utility
Up to six target creatures suffering from (save ends) effects are weakened (save ends) and suffer a -1 penalty to saving throws until the end of your next turn. If the creature already has a penalty to saving throws, increase that penalty by -1.
[-4] Death Stalks You – Standard Attack
Target Enemy is subjected to your “Mark of the Reaper” (save ends). While the target is subjected to your “Mark of the Reaper,” it suffers vulnerability equal to the amount of ongoing damage its taking, and whenever the creature takes damage, you gain that much life. When this effect ends, the Necro Scythe vanishes.
The sheer act of revamping the trait would make the entire weapon more playable. Small tweaks were made so AoE capacity is slightly increased and it could better maintain momentum once it gets going.
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Dusk Raven Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:25 pm
As a user of Death's Scythe... that looks pretty good. Really good, in fact. The trait becoming, basically, Surefire Hex looks good even if it is a tad... potent.
Dusk Raven- Epic Pwny
- Posts : 1791
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 32
Location : Midwest US
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Kindulas Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:06 am
A trait of that magnitude is frightening.
Actually, what I hope to do with the Scythe is split it into ONE weapon that does lifesteal and summoning, and another for the warlock that's dedicated to ongoing damage
Actually, what I hope to do with the Scythe is split it into ONE weapon that does lifesteal and summoning, and another for the warlock that's dedicated to ongoing damage
Kindulas- Designer
- Posts : 636
Join date : 2012-12-11
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
ZamuelNow Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:10 pm
Fair enough. Guess there is a reason why the actual trait has a prerequisite. Any thoughts on the Granite Axe proposals?
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Kindulas Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:46 pm
I like the weakened on the ult, though the THP on Grasping Granite seems frightening with SoS. As we've been more careful about math, I am somewhat fearful of SoS's unpredictability, as awesome as it is. Maybe make it a little bit under-powered as a combo piece. However, I will say if we rework this, instead of it being a "Defender" weapon it'd be more of a "Juggernaught" weapon, fairly heavy hitting with high survivability, but not really about protecting your allies. This is because, spoilers, they'll be a more dedicated defender weapon coming out soon.ZamuelNow wrote:Fair enough. Guess there is a reason why the actual trait has a prerequisite. Any thoughts on the Granite Axe proposals?
Kindulas- Designer
- Posts : 636
Join date : 2012-12-11
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
ZamuelNow Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:07 am
It seems interesting as is but I don't know how many actively use this. Though there may be cause and effect there where it isn't used much because of the strength. Still, it might be wise to go ahead and add the weaken to Granite Axe's ult since it is sorta suicide right now, especially if other balancing plans may take a while.
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Zarhon Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:20 am
Well, currently one of my characters is using it. It indeed falls somewhere between "tank" and "good survivability damage dealer" in its use, but falls flat on both accounts, since it can't control / protect allies or withstand attacks well enough to tank, and cannot deal any decent amount of damage if anything attacks them directly (can't trigger reaction and loses temporary hit points which fuel its damage). It's also really slow on the pip upkeep, and earthquake in its current form is suicide.
I approve of the idea of turning it into a more damage-oriented survivability weapon. It would need something to allow one to keep their temporary hitpoints, be able to do things if directly targeted, or otherwise be able to do damage without relying on temporary hp.
I approve of the idea of turning it into a more damage-oriented survivability weapon. It would need something to allow one to keep their temporary hitpoints, be able to do things if directly targeted, or otherwise be able to do damage without relying on temporary hp.
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Fury of the Tempest Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:47 pm
Does anyone else feel that Midnight Blade is a bit redundant? I mean, its already mentioned that there are traits to reroll your 1's, and through +6 damage is good and cosistent. People seem to run the rages for +2d6 or +3d6.
That, and I hardly ever see the Midnight Blade....
That, and I hardly ever see the Midnight Blade....
Fury of the Tempest- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 29
Location : ENGLAND!!!!
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Ramsus Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:03 pm
The problem with Midnight Blade is mostly that it costs too much to be used for any build that would care to use it. You have to chew up two turns basically doing nothing just to use it and then you have no pips so you're waiting to turn three to do maybe a +1 standard and a -1 minor. Which doesn't really end up being worth the wait since combats don't typically last ten rounds.
Ramsus- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 5688
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 39
Location : California
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Fury of the Tempest Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:06 pm
So, you think it pip cost should be reduced?
And how does it differs from the builds that use he +2d6 and +3d6? They cost the same or more.
And how does it differs from the builds that use he +2d6 and +3d6? They cost the same or more.
Fury of the Tempest- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 29
Location : ENGLAND!!!!
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Ramsus Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:08 pm
Well, they're a lot more potential damage. Still, I probably wouldn't use those myself.
Ramsus- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 5688
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 39
Location : California
Re: [Combat Talents] "What is overshadowed, underpowered, impractical?" - discussions
Sponsored content
Sponsored content
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Similar topics» Healing Combat Talents
» Sunbeam's Combat Talents
» Combat Talents
» Mirror-like combat talents?
» Combat Talents by thematthew
» Sunbeam's Combat Talents
» Combat Talents
» Mirror-like combat talents?
» Combat Talents by thematthew
Pony Tales: Aspirations of Harmony :: Developer's Corner :: Game Mechanics Discussion :: Combat Talents
Page 1 of 3
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum|
|
|