The Destiny Upgrade

Quick thing thing to Demonu (don't have much time).

Master Detective was changed because the current abilities make a lot of sense - via the detective figuring things out (simulated by the player getting an answer to a question - the flavor being that his character brilliantly figured it out on his own). The crime lab is cool, but can create some annoying restrictions. After all, if the players are adventuring out in the wilderness or in other parts of the world... It was a serious pain. If it's a mobile crime lab, that would work better, but just getting bonuses to skill checks isn't very exciting or interesting. ROlling twice would be cooler, but even that is pretty lame.

Perhaps an either/or could be implemented like a lot of other parts of the revamp.

That's a good point, actually. Perhaps it could be "choose one of the following" at level 4, thus allowing people to take the old form if it makes sense for their campaign or they just liked it better for whatever reason. I'm all for providing players with more choices in their destinies.

Also, a quick question for those desiring to come up with new destinies: I know the level 4 features are now worth 3 utility talents, and that level 10 features are worth 8, but how much are level 7 features worth? I would guess 5 or 6, but I'd like an official answer.

Perfect deduction Fury (except for the typo that had you listing the 7s both as worth 3 talents and 8 - when you clearly meant to write the 10s are worth 8 talents). You're absolutely correct.

Ah, ok, I must have gotten misinformation somewhere. Two, three, and eight it is!

Incidentally that clears up my confusion about Seer's level 4, too. Thanks!

Fury of the Tempest wrote:Just have it so the person cannot lose a magic point through the effect or something

The whole problem with that combo is that they might not have to lose their magic point.

Think he means, "can't take a magic drain or similar effect'.

Do people actually want an update to Explorer? I ask since there hasn't been much discussion about it I noticed I'm a bit too fixated on trying to adjust the old version than rebuilding from scratch. I feel an Indiana Jones/Daring Do Destiny is quite valid but I've seen suggestions to create a ranger Destiny that may encroach on this. Also...thinking Secret Shelter might be better as a Boon.

ZamuelNow wrote:Do people actually want an update to Explorer?  I ask since there hasn't been much discussion about it I noticed I'm a bit too fixated on trying to adjust the old version than rebuilding from scratch.  I feel an Indiana Jones/Daring Do Destiny is quite valid but I've seen suggestions to create a ranger Destiny that may encroach on this. Also...thinking Secret Shelter might be better as a Boon.

While I will agree that having a boon version of Secret Shelter would be fun. Also do think that Explorer's stats as a whole could be fun as a whole to be built with and junk.

Secret shelter as a boon... I like this. It would need to be an epic secret shelter though. Actually... I think we were thinking about something along the lines of http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mage's_Magnificent_Mansion

Kindulas wrote:Secret shelter as a boon... I like this. It would need to be an epic secret shelter though. Actually... I think we were thinking about something along the lines of http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mage's_Magnificent_Mansion

Technically, you can already do this via utilizing the "Planeshaper" destiny.

Would be tricky to make a boon that works as a universal shelter, though, or at least, an actual reliable one for hiding in or escaping pursuit (without having baddies "camp" the exit).

Zarhon wrote:

Kindulas wrote:Secret shelter as a boon... I like this. It would need to be an epic secret shelter though. Actually... I think we were thinking about something along the lines of http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mage's_Magnificent_Mansion

Technically, you can already do this via utilizing the "Planeshaper" destiny.

Would be tricky to make a boon that works as a universal shelter, though, or at least, an actual reliable one for hiding in or escaping pursuit (without having baddies "camp" the exit).

Make the exit hidden. In one of Dan's 4e campaigns, they had this knife that could cut open a pocket of reality for a few hours - they would duck inside, then close it up so as it's completely imperceptable

Making Secret Shelter into a boon is a really good idea, since it's mostly useful as a group effect, could be useful in a wide variety of campaigns, and would no longer require someone in the party taking one specific destiny. Brilliant!

Would it be possible for Very Best Friend's Instant Friends to be changed from a coin flip to a d20 roll? Even at the same 50/50 percentage, that's far more useful since assists and Magic Points to aid it. As is, it's one of the incredibly few things in the game that can completely fizzle out on its own even when use in optimal situations. This causes problems for Master Friendmaker by making it unusable unless you're some sort of crazy chessmaster that can find ways to spin the situation off of having someone permanently dislike you. Which I'm a little curious about actually, though that's beside the point.

Demonu also has an incredibly valid point about Master Detective since Into The Hero-Cave and The Detective this Campaign Deserves serve rather different purposes. An either/or choice at Level 4 and figuring out what to add to the Level 7 for Hero-Cave (once a day remote access to your crime lab?) would help keep options open for differing characters and campaign styles.

The issue with the crime lab was that it's a place that has to be fit into the setting or plot somehow... though a pocket-crime-lab isn't out of the question

A pocket crime lab also sounds even cooler than a normal crime lab. You can always set it up in one place, but you can bring it with you too.

Sounds like it would be really difficult to look through a microscope that's in your pocket. =P

It'd obviously be expandable. 

Poke-Lab!

What, expandable? No silly, it would require "Minimize" to be useful! lol

Doesn't matter how it'd work... Just a travel-sized crime lab is an awesome idea. And would help in returning a good deal of the flavor the old version had for the thinker characters.

Kindulas wrote:The issue with the crime lab was that it's a place that has to be fit into the setting or plot somehow...

But for someone who would want a crime lab over a Twitchy Tail style option, wouldn't that be part of the appeal? That sounds like that would be a good thing since it means players are invested in the setting and want to be a part of it. It can set up plot points based on getting to or being restricted from your base and as pure mechanics the two options are different. Having the Level 4 be the base and the Level 7 be making the base mobile also lends itself to a sense of progression. Sure it's not right for every campaign but that's true for a lot of destinies (and boons). As a DM, I personally auto-ban Metagamer and Master of Madness by default. Doesn't mean they don't belong in the system since there's players and campaigns they work well.