Discussion on alterations to the new Conjured shield

Kindulas wrote:The majority here and everyone I've talked to seem to prefer the way it is

Like. WHO?

Xel? YOU?! That's two. Zamuel doesn't seem to mind either way, and I certainly don't like it. Tyger, hasn't commented for a while either.

And that's only four people. FOUR. Its not exactly a big number is it?

Fury, you really need to stop typing in caps. It just comes across as shouting, which I don't think you intend. Try using italics if you want to emphasize a word, or underline it or something else. Caps isn't pleasant.

I mean, COME ON! WHAT does it TAKE to make people HAPPY!

I'VE LISTED to the feedback. I've changed my shield AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

YET, you STILL don't do ANYTHING. And I don't see any GOOD reasons why.

Actually, all I see are SELFISH REASONS.

Kindulas wrote:Aegis works too well as the disappearing ult, people love free defender, and US probably works better stand-alone

SEE?! TWO. SELFISH. REASONS!!!! The new Aegis works FINE as it is. Being perfectly balanced, and FITTING as a shield. What is the POINT in an AoE shield if you can only use it ONCE?

And US 'probably works better stand-alone?! BULLSHIT. STAB doesn't work better stand-alone. DEFENDER, the FOCUS of the weapon doesn't work better stand alone. So why should MY. TALENT. Designed SPECIFICALLY for the shield, work 'BETTER' stand alone?!

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Fury, you really need to stop typing in caps. It just comes across as shouting, which I don't think you intend. Try using italics if you want to emphasize a word, or underline it or something else. Caps isn't pleasant.

That is exactly what I've been using it for.

Then you're being inappropriate. Rule 6 is as follows.


6.  No throwing fits if your game design suggestion is turned down.  Not everything can be incorporated into the official handbook.

Shouting and ranting in a post, especially when you were just cautioned about it, definitely counts as throwing a fit. I'll have to PM you a warning.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Then you're being inappropriate. Rule 6 is as follows.


6.  No throwing fits if your game design suggestion is turned down.  Not everything can be incorporated into the official handbook.

Shouting and ranting in a post, especially when you were just cautioned about it, definitely counts as throwing a fit. I'll have to PM you a warning.

I'm NOT throwing a fit because my game design suggestion was turned down.

I'm getting pissed off because ALL the work I've done on the shield, both before AND after its 'release'. ALL the feedback I've listened to. ALL the changes I've done to the shield to make people happy IS NOT BUCKING ENOUGH.

And the REASONS why its STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH?

'I prefer the AoE shield to make the weapon disappear'
'I think US would work best stand alone'
'The completely broken no-cost defender feels cooler'.

I mean, answer me this. How much does a 5000 gold item cost in terms of PiPs? If you can even do such an equivalent.

Now you know how we feel all the time about just about everything in the system. =)

As for a 5000 gold item, that cost is easy. 1000 gold is worth 1 standard action. 1 standard action is worth 3 pips. We tend to double the price of extra-pips (if they're awarded right away) to be safe because they're so versatile - but we don't always do that if there's another way to make sure they'll be safe to use. So 5x3 is 15 pips. You can halve that to be safe though, or put some other limit on it.

Now, regardless of your frustration, I've had to send you a warning about throwing a fit because your game design suggestions are currently being turned down. I haven't paid attention to the development of the shield, I have no personal stake in the issue and have no idea who I'd agree with if I had the time to review the whole process. Either way though, you can't shout in the post at people. Not okay for this forum. I'll tie your last post to the first warning, but if you don't stop the shouting and drama here and return to calmly reasoned discussion - I'll have to take it to the second infraction.

@Fury - That's up to you. If you don't want to see your concepts or talents in the game or inspire other ideas in the designers, you don't have to. Heck, I have full approval power over anything I want and *I* still don't usually see things stay the way I initially design them when they're added to the game. Kindulas and Nehiel also compromise and change their designs all the time both to what the rest of the dev team thinks is best and what the community seems to prefer.

It's just part of the process.

@Sunbeam - Sure, I recommend talking to Kindulas as he's done most of the design work on them. In general though, we want conjured weapons to pay their conjuring cost back by the end of the battle. So in a 5 round battle, if you go +3 on turn 1 - you can summon a -7 weapon and use it for 4 more turns. If those 4 turns generate 8 pips of added value (1 pip more than the cost, but you're getting a delayed return so that's fair) - that's balanced. So getting 2 pips of advantage every turn works really well.