Re: Utility Talent/Racial Trait overhaul/revamp - New "Abilities" system

ZamuelNow Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:52 pm

I'm pretty sure the prep time on Changeling's Trickery is more of a gameplay vs show split. There's argument of whether or not adjusting it will harm gameplay. Alter Ego could stand to have shorter prep since it's limited though.

Philadelphus wrote:Finally, on a more personal note: I'll be going on vacation this Saturday (the 14th) through the end of December. I will have Internet access where I'm going, but it'll be slow and I don't expect to have much time to actually get on the 'net. So don't be surprised if you don't hear a lot from me for next two weeks. I'll try to check the forums as I can, but don't expect a quick reply. I'll try to finish up some of these last remaining issues before I leave so I can leave the document in a good state over Christmas.

I'll try to skim over it for typos later in the week but before Saturday. BTW, any confirmation or denial of Book Forte and Frozen Time?

**Philadelphus** Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:51 am

Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Personally, I think BotB could be reduced by one point, and tricks of the trades increased by one point

I'm inclined to agree with both of those points. Currently the cost-to-benefit ratio is (lower is better):
AoAT + TotT: 6/18 = 0.333...
IRaLAI: 2/3 = 0.666...
BotB: 6/6 = 1

With that change, the ratios would be:
AoAT + TotT: 7/18 = 0.388...
IRaLAI: 2/3 = 0.666...
BotB: 5/6 = 0.833...

Which would reduce the range between them and make them all a bit closer without being too drastic of a change. I've gone ahead and changed them.

Zarhon wrote:Adaptable looks okay. Will there be a version of it for Alter Ego as well (upgrade)? Or will it require (as a prerequisite) Alter Ego?

I was going to have one, but when I wrote it up I realized it was kind of redundant. With CT, you could be transforming into any number of species which might all have different abilities you might want to copy. With Alter Ego, you know the species you're transforming into beforehand, so it makes no sense to have an ability that gives you another ability but only when you're transformed; you might as well just take the ability to begin with (since you don't lose it upon transforming) and if you want to you can limit yourself to only using it while transformed.

Regarding the prep time, if Alter Ego is a limited times per day ability I don't see a reason why it couldn't be quicker. Maybe 30 seconds to both transform and revert? Or maybe an option to spend a Magic Point to do it instantly?

I feel like Changeling's Trickery, since you can change to anyone you've seen, needs to keep a slightly longer time to keep it from being a "you can't pin anything on me" talent. At least for the base form. I could see a "Quickchange" upgrade that decreased the time a bit, perhaps.

@Xel: Don't worry, I haven't forgotten, though I don't mind you reminding me. Smile

I just haven't had time to work it out fully yet.

@ZamuelNow: I don't really see a reason for them not to be in, so I'll add them next time I have time (if you could copy'n'paste 'em somewhere easy to find that'd be great).

ZamuelNow Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:57 pm

Repost:

Zarhon Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:19 pm

Philadelphus wrote:With Alter Ego, you know the species you're transforming into beforehand, so it makes no sense to have an ability that gives you another ability but only when you're transformed; you might as well just take the ability to begin with (since you don't lose it upon transforming) and if you want to you can limit yourself to only using it while transformed.

That could cause some leaps of logic - your new form would inexplicably gain some illogical abilities that way, whilst simultaneously not getting any benefits of what the chosen form entails (e.g. a Minotaur form that's capable of flight without justification, or a Pegasus form that's incapable of flight, despite having wings, because your normal form can't fly due to lacking wings).

If you're a earth pony with a pegasus alter ego, would you not be able to fly then, which doesn't make much sense if the form is something you know by heart - you'd probably have learned how to use those wings by then.

It makes sense for some characters, but doesn't for others, whos alter ego forms may be vastly different (physically or otherwise) from their original forms. It sort of limits RP options to taking Changeling's Trickery (which allows you to shift into anything, even if you prefer to have a permanent form instead, and is very costly in itself) if you want the alter ego form to be anything but a glorified costume.

Maybe two versions of alter ego could be offered, of which only one is chosen?

One version would be the one as it is now: Your alter ego abilities are same as your original abilities.

In the other version, players could (optionally?) assign X points worth of abilities to 'replace' X points worth of abilities you have in your normal form. For instance, a changeling with flight could swap out it's natural "flight" for having "terrify" whilst in its permanent disguise of a Minotaur. Whether the abilities swapped would be permanent (pick at character creation) or up to choice when transforming (as adaptable allows) is up to debate (or DM discretion?). This version also gets balanced to some degree with its limited charges - you can't spam-switch forms willy-nilly to get abilities you want, whenever you want.

ZamuelNow wrote:
Repost:

Curious note: Among those and "Yee-Haw", there's a distinct lack of an ability that boosts "Sense". We have "The Stare", which works purely for Persuasion checks. An on-demand +20 Perception/Streetwise check could be a lot more useful than Persuasion would, in a given situation. Should "The Stare" be altered to affect Sense checks, rather than just Persuasion? It certainly makes sense that staring at something really hard gives you +20 perception. Razz

**LoganAura** Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:50 pm

Thing is Sense doesn't really need the boost to it. It's got two of the most commonly used skills in the whole entire game in it, so people already have it high.

ZamuelNow Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Zarhon wrote:Curious note: Among those and "Yee-Haw", there's a distinct lack of an ability that boosts "Sense". We have "The Stare", which works purely for Persuasion checks. An on-demand +20 Perception/Streetwise check could be a lot more useful than Persuasion would, in a given situation. Should "The Stare" be altered to affect Sense checks, rather than just Persuasion? It certainly makes sense that staring at something really hard gives you +20 perception.

It's a weird issue. On one hand I feel it should be standardized to include all of Sense to keep it even. On the other hand, Logan's point is the reason I believe it never got changed the last time it was brought up. Streetwise is badly in need of such a thing but not Perception.

Xel Unknown Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:13 pm

Hey, I don't know about you guys, but I know I don't really like putting points into sense feel I can get more use out've other stats myself. So I'd support the Stare being able to help the Streetwise and Perception stuff... I know that I'm more likely to need one of those then Persuasion. (only once have I ever even used the Stare...)

Zarhon Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:49 pm

Thing is, though, that the ability isn't reliant on its owner's stats: It can affect any check, including those of allies with terrible sense, as an interrupt. Not everyone in the party will have it at a high value, and a successful perception check could be just the thing that lets an ally avoid a dangerous trap he'd normally fail to notice.

And if I might add: Mechanics, stealth, and acrobatics are all very versatile, practical, creative and useful skills for almost any game, and "Frozen Time" would affect all three of those.

Perception may be common, but those three are those that can make big, important things happen, more than Yee-Haw (one useful skill, and another that greatly benefits from being boosted in emergencies) or Book Forte (variable usefulness, depending on how important Arcana/History/Heal are) or The Stare (dependent on NPCs to converse with) could.

edit: regarding the talents that are missing - what happened with 'Illusionary Mask'?

Crystalite Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Wondering:

Telekinesis (2) – At Will
Preparation Time: Instantaneous
You may mentally pick up or manipulate any number of objects within 50 feet of you with combined weights of 50 pounds or less.

Mental Muscles (1)
Prerequisite: Telekinesis
The weight limit of your Telekinesis increases by 25 pounds. You may take this ability up to four times.

If I take all four, that comes up to 150 pounds...

Advanced Telekinesis (3) – 3/Day
Preparation Time: Instantaneous
For the next ten minutes, you may mentally pick up or manipulate any number of objects within fifty feet of you with combined weights of 200 lbs. or less. You may spend a magic point to increase the maximum weight limit to 1000 lbs for the next 10 minutes instead.

Now, let's assume I have both all four Mental Muscles and Advanced TK. When I use Adv TK, I only get an extra 50 lbs (by my interpretation; if this is incorrect, then this whole point is moot.) Sure, this allows me to spend a Magic Point on it... but it seems silly to take both if I want to make a Telekinesis character.

I wonder; could we not be rid of Telekinesis all together, and let MM be taken six times instead? Same net effect point-wise, and that would imply that it applies to Adv TK as well. It would also permit one to only put 1 point into TK for only 25 lbs, if they only needed a very little bit, or perhaps something to take up that last point.

EDIT: If not, I think at least Adv TK should be affected by Mental Muscles and Stretching The Mind; if it is supposed to be, then a footnote explaining may be in order.

Fury of the Tempest Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:52 pm

Can anyone think of any more (1) abilities? Because I honestly think the amount of (1)'s is vastly underated.

Xel Unknown Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:00 pm

All of the x-borns should be one point... Or at least getting the immiunties should be just a point with getting the power to use the elemnt being another point... (in fact I'd personally put them both as their own talents that can be comboed or something) Hell there should be a one point starting point for fall damage resistance too.

**Philadelphus** Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:46 pm

Well, I'm back from vacation, and back in the land of Internet access as well. Glad it's been pretty quiet in the interim. Very Happy

Regarding Alter Ego, what if we added something like this to it: "You may choose to designate one or more of your abilities as available only while in your alternate form." That way you could play an earth pony with Alter Ego who can transform into a pegasus, and take one or more flight abilities and designate them as only available while transformed.

Regarding Advanced Telekinesis: it originally required Telekinesis as a prerequisite, but was split off at some point to be its own utility talent. I don't know the reason why (perhaps StairC can provide some illumination). I could see it being changed. Perhaps Advanced Telekinesis could go back to having Telekinesis as a prerequisite.

Regarding 1-point abilities: we'd like to keep the number of 1-pointers under control. I remember seeing a fair share of characters using the old Genetic Engineering system that were just a collection of eight 1-(racial)-point abilities, which always felt a little silly and disjointed to me. While the overall power level may be the same as characters with fewer but more expensive abilities, it clutters up a character sheet and requires the player to spend more time trying to figure out whether or not each ability is useful for each situation they encounter. Alternatively, someone may simply forget one of their abilities and have a "D'oh!" moment later when they realize it.

Basically, we don't want to have fifteen 1-point abilities and then see characters having all fifteen of them at once.

That's not to say that we're against 1-pointers entirely, because they're good for flavor or to fill up the occasional 1-point hole at the end of character creation. I went through and counted 5 today, and I think we could stand to have a few more. I don't more than about 7-8 total, though, so they need to be really good ones.

Regarding the various "-born" abilities: what do people think about the following idea:

Elemental Resistance (1)
When you take this ability, you may choose one of the following effects:

Fireborn
You cannot be harmed by any naturally occurring heat, including natural fire and lava (though magical fire blasts and similar can still harm you in combat).

Thunderborn
You cannot be harmed by any naturally occurring electricity (though magical lightning bolts and similar can still harm you in combat).

Frostborn
You cannot be harmed by any natural cold, including the temperatures found in arctic climates (though magical ice bolts and similar can still harm you in combat).

Acidborn
You cannot be harmed by naturally occurring acid (though magical acid blasts and similar can still harm you in combat).

Waterborn [Created by Zarhon & ZamuelNow]
You cannot drown in water nor can you be harmed by environmental water pressure (though magical water blasts and similar can still harm you in combat).

(There could also perhaps be a no-fall-damage ability in there too.)

Then, for the active effects, you could have something like this:

Elemental Affinity (1)
Prerequisite: Elemental Resistance
When you take this ability, you gain the power corresponding to the resistance you chose for Elemental Resistance.

Fireborn
You can safely create small puffs of flame at will. These puffs of flame are identical to a torch in many respects and are capable of burning objects and lighting fires outside of combat just as a torch might. Puffs of flame are ordinary fire, they extinguish quickly without tinder.

Thunderborn
You can safely spit small bolts of electricity at will. These bolts can be used for minor things such as starting a small fire if used on flammable material, powering an electrical machine, and similar actions that can be achieved with low voltage electricity.

Frostborn
You can safely breathe puffs of frigid vapor at will. This vapor can be used to freeze small volumes of liquid, or to coat up to 5 square feet of a solid surface in ice. Anyone trying to walk over the affected area must make a DC 20 acrobatics check not to fall (the creatures attempting this suffer a -10 penalty if they were running or moving similarly quickly).

Acidborn
You can safely spit small globules of acid at will. Outside of combat, these globules are capable of dissolving an inch of a weak substance such as wood, rope or leather within a minute. On small objects of a stronger substance, such as an iron lock, the acid has the effect of the ability Weaken Substance a minute after application.

Waterborn
You can safely spit pressurized water at will, up to 50 liters per day. These spouts of water are identical to that of freshwater sources, allowing for drinking, washing, extinguishing fires, watering plants, pushing/propelling small objects or creatures and similar uses.

This splits up the resistances and the active abilities, while simultaneously reducing the number of separate abilities from 5 to 2. I could also add a second option for Waterborn giving the "improved swimming" aspect from One With The Waves.

Regarding Book Forte and Frozen Time: given that we have Yee-Haw! and The Stare, could we perhaps come up with some different (more shout-out-y) names for these?

Fury of the Tempest Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:55 pm

The idea with the Element resistance is good to me.

Xel Unknown Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:45 am

Um... While it does look nice I also intended to have there be One With The Waves be mixed into this elemental thing... So that the roll twice while swimming power gets to stay and be upgraded to not cost more then just three points if you wanta mix it with waterborn.

ZamuelNow Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:25 pm

I wonder about the falling damage resistance since it has the ability to be used far more often than the other resistances.

Philadelphus wrote:Regarding Advanced Telekinesis: it originally required Telekinesis as a prerequisite, but was split off at some point to be its own utility talent. I don't know the reason why (perhaps StairC can provide some illumination). I could see it being changed. Perhaps Advanced Telekinesis could go back to having Telekinesis as a prerequisite.

I believe it was for the differences in usage. Telekinesis was the always available form that unicorns would have while Advanced TK was for individual displays of power since it only could be used a few times a day.

Regarding Book Forte and Frozen Time: given that we have Yee-Haw! and The Stare, could we perhaps come up with some different (more shout-out-y) names for these?

Not sure everything needs to be shoutout and I tend to prefer the more subtle ones. Book Forte is a reference to a book fort which some people have either drawn filly Twilight playing in or built one for their Twilight Sparkle toys. Despite Applejack being my favorite, Yee-Haw sounds slightly generic. That said, Frozen Time is incredibly dull and have no complaints about changing it unless it turns into something obnoxiously memey. My biggest problem is that I can't think of a good replacement.

**Philadelphus** Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:Um... While it does look nice I also intended to have there be One With The Waves be mixed into this elemental thing... So that the roll twice while swimming power gets to stay and be upgraded to not cost more then just three points if you wanta mix it with waterborn.

How about something like this:

One With the Waves (1)
Prerequisite: Elemental Resistance: Waterborn
You do not suffer movement penalties for carrying another creature while swimming. In addition, you may roll twice on skill checks made to swim and take either result.

ZamuelNow wrote:Not sure everything needs to be shoutout and I tend to prefer the more subtle ones. Book Forte is a reference to a book fort which some people have either drawn filly Twilight playing in or built one for their Twilight Sparkle toys. Despite Applejack being my favorite, Yee-Haw sounds slightly generic. That said, Frozen Time is incredibly dull and have no complaints about changing it unless it turns into something obnoxiously memey. My biggest problem is that I can't think of a good replacement.

Of the two Frozen Time is the one I'd most prefer to come up with a replacement for. I'll have a think and see if I can come up with anything.

Zarhon Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:33 am

Noticed that the "Clever Tail" racial is missing. And I think I can see why.

Clever Tail - Reference:

This talent is... really, REALLY bad.
- It's -5 penalty to manipulation is massive, to the point that it defeats its purpose - your tail is incredibly unreliable to achieve anything with it due to it, and most likely guarantees your +5 stealth bonus is rendered moot, either due to your failure exposing your stealthy actions, or your action not happening in the first place due to being inept.
- Offers no other benefits, besides the stealth and "implied" extra hand, which one doesn't really need a talent for in most cases.
- It costs 1 racial point to gain a +5 bonus benefit. The problem is, a single Freaky Knowledge can pretty much mimic and out-do the racial. Just take "tail manipulation" as one of the FK's, and gain another for free! No penalties to manipulation attached!
- Doesn't fit with the current revamped abilities and their "no flat skill bonuses" mentality.

It needs a rework, both in its current form and that of a potential ability. So I propose:

Ambidextrous Amplification:

**Philadelphus** Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:16 am

Yeah, I left out Clever Tail when making the Abilities because it doesn't really fit. I don't think "getting an appendage" really fits as an ability, because it's not something a character can do – it's a physical part of a character, and that's not something that actually gets defined anywhere in the system. It's Almost Like Flying doesn't say "You gain a pair of wings, and also the ability to fly" – it merely gives you the ability to fly, and leaves the flavor up to you (wings? auto-telekinesis? jetpack? enchanted hoverboard?). Clever Tail is a relic of the system, back when it was a racial intended for ahuitzotls, and I always thought that its level of specificity was a bit of an oddball in the system.

Put another way, the number of limbs your character has and their utility (or lack of it) should really be up to flavor. If you're playing an ahuitzotl, you should reasonably be allowed to use the hand on your tail to do stuff same as your other hands, without needing a single specific ability to do so. Hence why I left it behind migrating to the new system, and I why I don't feel it belongs.

I could perhaps see adding a related, general ability that gives +X to Stealth when attempting to perform an action stealthily, but gives a -Y penalty to the action itself. But honestly I don't see it as a particularly interesting ability then (min-maxing my Stealth some more with another flat +X bonus, *yawn*).

**Philadelphus** Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:21 am

In other news, I finally got around to modifying the X-borns into the form I suggested a few posts ago, added One With The Waves as an upgrade, and added an option (Airborne) to provide resistance to falling damage. Also, Book Forte and Frozen Time (still can't think of a better name) have been added under the Spellcraft and Skullduggery sections, respectively. Finally, I added a comment to Advanced Telekinesis specifying that if you take it along with Telekinesis the upgrades to Telekinesis also apply to it.

With that, I believe we've finally managed to work out all the issues that people have brought up since the Abilities document was first released. When Dan and I released it we knew it wasn't finished and that you guys would be able to bring up a lot of things that we'd overlooked. With these last few changes I think we've covered the flurry of issues you all pointed out when it first came out, and I think I'm finally ready to consider it stable. It'll always be open to change based on feedback, of course, but at this point I think it should be stable enough that you can use it in your campaigns without worrying too much that something is going to majorly change next week. Changes from this point out should be mostly small, or additional abilities that don't change existing ones. (No guarantees, of course – but I'll do my best to keep it any changes from being too disruptive.)

Zarhon Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:43 am

Don't see why the "appendage" would be too much of a problem to have as an ability - same way as one can flavor flying ability as having a flying machine, or having telekinesis without a horn, someone can flavor the extra appendage as having a mechanical limb or similar "hand" tool (or spell), rather than it being a 'genetic' thing. As an example, just look at Doc Ock, or this pony, or the recent show canon uses. They don't need to 'grow' an extra appendage (unless they invest in upgrades that is), they just get more 'functionality' to what they already have - doing two things at once and more effectively, as though you have an extra hand.

You do make a point though with how the ability is worded. I've edited the wording of it to be less 'genetics flavor' reliant, and a bit more broad in what the appendage can/could be 'classified' as - now it can be seen as either a tool (mecha-claws), spell (think Lyra), or genetics (prehensile tail/mane/extra limb). Heck, it could even be a personal robot drone, or nanobots, or something.

Ambidextrous Amplification:

There's still a bunch of things that's missing from the doc currently ("Form of Owl", and other Shapeshifter utilities, for instance, without which the lvl4 Destiny of "Shapeshifter" gives you nothing).

Could you make a list of talents from the utilities/genetics doc that aren't in the abilities doc, and state the reason why it is such (purposefully, due to being inadequate/don't work, or because they're still on the to-do list and there hasn't been time to do so yet, or lack of ideas how to make it work by the system)? Would make things a lot more clearer for peeps and make it simpler to make new stuff with.

ZamuelNow Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:58 am

My apologies on not not getting to the typo fix over the holidays. One thing I did notice is that One With the Waves is listed in two places.

**Philadelphus** Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:52 am

ZamuelNow wrote:My apologies on not not getting to the typo fix over the holidays. One thing I did notice is that One With the Waves is listed in two places.

No worries. And thanks for the catch, I copied it into its new location and forgot to remove the old one.

Ambidextrous Amplification - At Will
You can control an extra prehensile tool or 'appendage'*, separate, yet in addition to, your normal manipulative abilities. This provides the following benefits:
- Manipulate objects or creatures within 5 feet of you in any direction.
- Extends the range of abilities that require contact by 5 feet.
- You may perform the preparation time for two abilities simultaneously.
- You may perform two skill checks simultaneously, and 'assist' yourself.
- Any actions with the 'appendage' is considered to be affected by a DC15 stealth check by default (but may be rolled for higher or lower values).
- You suffer no situational penalties to the manipulation with it (such as from performing whilst blinded).
This appendage cannot manipulate objects too large or heavy to hold with only one limb.

I'm afraid I'm still seeing some problems with this proposal. Leaving aside the oddity of having an ability give you some sort of extra appendage, being able to use two abilities at once is just begging to find ways to break. Also it doesn't exactly make much sense; how would having an extra limb allow you to use Arcane Eye and Detect Minds at the same time? You can try to restrict it to "appropriate" abilities, but that just introduces a whole new level of rules for a single ability, which is not worth it in my opinion. Even if you do have a list of prescribed abilities it works with, the sheer number of abilities means there are almost certainly some over-powered combos just waiting out there that we can't foresee.

The fourth point is also worrisome. Two skill checks simultaneously? Again, how does having an extra appendage allow you to perform a History and a Streetwise check at the same time? Once again you can have a list of skill checks that it works with, but that extra level of complexity is something we'd like to avoid unless it adds a really compelling feature. And with the ability to assist yourself you could pair this with The Most Dependable of Ponies and Herd Mentality to give yourself a chance for a free +6 bonus to every skill check you make. By itself this would be bad enough – but take the proposed Can't Have Enough a couple of times and you can almost guarantee aiding yourself on every single skill check, perhaps multiple times, which is really, really, powerful.

The fifth point is also a little odd, and it's something I found odd with the original Clever Tail. Why should it automatically get a bonus to Stealth? And why is it immune to situational penalties? Assuming it's an actual appendage of yours, it makes no sense that your appendage can do things completely unaffected by penalties your character is suffering from.

And finally the last feature is rather vague. What exactly counts as too heavy to hold with one limb? This could easily lead to argument about just how much a single limb can hold. What if your extra appendage works out a lot and is stronger than a "normal" limb? I just see this leading to a lot of heated debate between players and GMs.

In short, there are a number of iffy features in this ability. It's an oddball because no other ability specifies a character's physical form, and I'd be a little hesitant to include it for that reason alone. Along with that, however, it provides a number of potentially extremely powerful abilities (if not downright game-breaking in the right hands). If you're looking to make a Doc Ock or Mane-iac style character, I personally think you'd be much better served by taking Telekinesis and a few of its upgrades, then specifying that it works by moving your tentacles/mane/whatever around. Basically, I don't think there's really a need for this ability when you can reflavor something else that does the job a lot better.

Oh, and regarding the shapeshifter abilities – it was decided not to move them over as they were really arbitrary and somewhat crossed over with the shapeshifting destiny, which I believe is getting a slight rewrite/buff although I don't know the status of it at the moment.

Zarhon Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:06 pm

Well, the "multiple utility use" I imagine would be the equivalent of casting two spells simultaneously (extra hands to gesture in an arcane fashion), or the other related task for preparing for it. This would only affect utilities with prep time, mind you - there's nothing in the rules currently that prevents a player from using a bunch of utilities simultaneously, so long as there's no preparation time involved for at least one of them.

You make a point with the potential for for game-breaking: perhaps the appendage could either have an "assigned" talent that it is limited to performing 'simultaneously' (which you can't change later and the DM would be able to see/veto before it can become a potential problem), or limiting the allowed "prep time" to things of a certain duration only, e.g. things with prep time of 10 seconds or less.

The "skill checks assist abuse" could be fixed by one or more of:
- not allowing the appendage any benefits of your talents (this equalizes it to a companion)...
- allowing only a single assist per creature (so you can't 'stack' appendage assists)...
- giving it a slightly harder time with assisting (+2/+3 assist confirmation DC, for example), for all or only for yourself...
- not allowing its rolls to be boosted by other means (e.g. by stuff like Yeehaw! or MPs)...

I added the "too heavy to hold with one limb" part mostly because I thought it needed a balancing factor. Maybe it could be equalized with telekinesis's weight limit (although then that talent is a bit weak by comparison), or be made a bit weaker than telekinesis, or just leave it without a weight limit (other than common sense / regular athletics checks).

The stealth aspect could be modified into an upgrade, rather than a 'free thing' - invest to make it more stealthy, or otherwise subtle. Flavor wise, it could be a chameleon effect for your appendage, invisibility module, or your appendage simply not being 'obvious' of being prehensile/usable as a tool (example: Pinkie's mane, which also doubles as hammer-space), similar to how you can turn your body into a bag of holding with "You Don't Know Where It's Been".

As for how you perform streetwise/knowledge check assists with the appendage? Why, by rubbing your chin thoughtfully, of course, or providing a headache-clearing lobe-massage, or wiping the sweat from your brow during surgery.
Dan vs Smiles

Obviously it can't think for you, but it can do assists related to it (probably needs that added as wording, if only to avoid rules lawyering), unless it's some mutant thing that has a mind/intelligence of its own, akin to a Hydra. Hmm, that could be another amusing upgrade...

ZamuelNow Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:20 am

Philadelphus wrote:Clever Tail is a relic of the system, back when it was a racial intended for ahuitzotls

It was? I always thought it was based off of Gilda stealing the apple in Griffon the Brush Off.

Crystalite Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:32 pm

Philadelphus wrote:Oh, and regarding the shapeshifter abilities – it was decided not to move them over as they were really arbitrary and somewhat crossed over with the shapeshifting destiny, which I believe is getting a slight rewrite/buff although I don't know the status of it at the moment.

D'aaaw! I really like the Shapeshifter talents!

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