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How do you determine if an assist check is successful? Does it have to beat the DC of the skill being assisted, or just it's own, probably smaller DC?

ex. DC of 35, player rolls 33. Another player wants to assist, does his roll have to beat 35, or just, say, 20?

Bronymous wrote:How do you determine if an assist check is successful? Does it have to beat the DC of the skill being assisted, or just it's own, probably smaller DC?

ex. DC of 35, player rolls 33. Another player wants to assist, does his roll have to beat 35, or just, say, 20?

A DM can tweak the mechanic however they like - but rules-wise you have to be able to succeed on the task to assist another with it. So you'd need to roll a 35. However, I also use a tweaked version of the mechanic for group-skill-tasks - in which I set lower DCs for assisting and higher DCs for the main check in order to make it more of a group effort.

That's an incredibly frustrating way for that mechanic to work. It means both that if the person who is the "main" person doing the roll gets a much lower number than the DC (say the DC is 30 and they get a 20) and people assisting them roll much higher (say 35) it still fails. On the other hand it also means that if the DC is high (say 35) and the main person rolls well but just not well enough (say 32) unless the other party members are also specialized in something that's a reasonable thing to aid that roll with (which more often than not they aren't since the "main" roller is often the one who's best at that thing) it means it's almost impossible to aid them as even with a good roll, anyone not good at that skill will still get something like a 22 and it won't make any difference, even though that might be a 17 they just rolled. Add in further frustration of people aiding getting a nat 20 which at best all it does is make them auto-succeed at aiding and... that's it. Even if it was their cutie mark skill.

The best way for this to be less frustrating would be to have the typical aiding DC (it only adds +2 base and anything more is something you're having to pay for so that's really already factored into that cost) be lower (by 5-10) so that teamwork is actually rewarding and encouraged as opposed to a frustrating waste of time and good rolls.

Ramsus wrote:That's an incredibly frustrating way for that mechanic to work. It means both that if the person who is the "main" person doing the roll gets a much lower number than the DC (say the DC is 30 and they get a 20) and people assisting them roll much higher (say 35) it still fails. On the other hand it also means that if the DC is high (say 35) and the main person rolls well but just not well enough (say 32) unless the other party members are also specialized in something that's a reasonable thing to aid that roll with (which more often than not they aren't since the "main" roller is often the one who's best at that thing) it means it's almost impossible to aid them as even with a good roll, anyone not good at that skill will still get something like a 22 and it won't make any difference, even though that might be a 17 they just rolled. Add in further frustration of people aiding getting a nat 20 which at best all it does is make them auto-succeed at aiding and... that's it. Even if it was their cutie mark skill.

The best way for this to be less frustrating would be to have the typical aiding DC (it only adds +2 base and anything more is something you're having to pay for so that's really already factored into that cost) be lower (by 5-10) so that teamwork is actually rewarding and encouraged as opposed to a frustrating waste of time and good rolls.

Yeah, as a DM I generally have my assisting DCs as 15 or 20. 15 if the actual check's DC is 25 or lower, and 20 if the DC is higher than 25. After all, it's more fun if everybody feels like they can help out

Agreed. I think maybe the rule should be like that, since even the one of the original developers doesn't quite like the way it is right now...

I also should note that a botched (crit fail) assistance check adds a -2 to the player they are trying to help.

Ramsus wrote:That's an incredibly frustrating way for that mechanic to work. It means both that if the person who is the "main" person doing the roll gets a much lower number than the DC (say the DC is 30 and they get a 20) and people assisting them roll much higher (say 35) it still fails. On the other hand it also means that if the DC is high (say 35) and the main person rolls well but just not well enough (say 32) unless the other party members are also specialized in something that's a reasonable thing to aid that roll with (which more often than not they aren't since the "main" roller is often the one who's best at that thing) it means it's almost impossible to aid them as even with a good roll, anyone not good at that skill will still get something like a 22 and it won't make any difference, even though that might be a 17 they just rolled. Add in further frustration of people aiding getting a nat 20 which at best all it does is make them auto-succeed at aiding and... that's it. Even if it was their cutie mark skill.

The best way for this to be less frustrating would be to have the typical aiding DC (it only adds +2 base and anything more is something you're having to pay for so that's really already factored into that cost) be lower (by 5-10) so that teamwork is actually rewarding and encouraged as opposed to a frustrating waste of time and good rolls.

I'm honestly not sure what you're objecting to. I've read this twice and I still don't get it. At first it seems like you're talking about not liking the group skill challenges that I've used (talking about main rollers and such) but your proposed solution seems to be... Exactly what I said, lower DCs for assisting rolls on the person making the main check.

I'm honestly just confused. What am I missing?

Right three things
Can you use an item talent while under the effects of a conjured weapon
Can you use selfless act more than once when everyone gets hit with a save ends at the same time
Can a free action be used inbetween the attacks of a multi hitting attack (ie cresendo)

tygerburningbright wrote:Right three things
Can you use an item talent while under the effects of a conjured weapon
Can you use selfless act more than once when everyone gets hit with a save ends at the same time
Can a free action be used inbetween the attacks of a multi hitting attack (ie cresendo)

1) Yes.

2) Yep, different triggers since different allies are getting hit.

3) No, a free action is free but it also needs to wait its turn. It can't go between other actions.

Then, what options do players have when an ally is sent into a coma...?

Xel Unknown wrote:Then, what options do players have when an ally is sent into a coma...?

If a player is knocked comatose, you can heal the player to keep him alive - but it won't restore him to consciousness until after a 5 minute rest after the battle.

Um... I don't understand... How that work? What are the hard HP numbers we dealing with?

Not sure we're talking about the same things. I'm talking about in combat.

Well... To me I'm thinking that the bad event happens and an ally is sent to -15 or lower HP... Then if you heal them... I'm unsure what HP it goes to.

Xel Unknown wrote:Well... To me I'm thinking that the bad event happens and an ally is sent to -15 or lower HP... Then if you heal them... I'm unsure what HP it goes to.

HP is treated as normal. They just won't regain consciousness, even if they go back to positive HP.

Xel Unknown wrote:Well... To me I'm thinking that the bad event happens and an ally is sent to -15 or lower HP... Then if you heal them... I'm unsure what HP it goes to.

Get healed from 0 like normal, they are just out of commission for the rest of combat.

More important question that I've been trying to ask, but didn't use the right words till now, I think, what happens if you are at -25 and then you are healed for 36-ish? What happens then. Cause last I checked in the KOed stance you get auto-matically set back to 0, but with the coma status, I figure it shouldn't be so easy to get back to having over 0 HP when you enter a coma...

If you gain 36 hp when you're at -25hp, you're immediately set back to 30hp (unless you somehow have more than 30 max hp). However, you are STILL comatose and unable to take actions for the rest of the battle. You need a 5 minute rest to wake up again. Comatose simply means that you're out of the fight, it doesn't mean anything else.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:rules-wise you have to be able to succeed on the task to assist another with it. So you'd need to roll a 35.

That was the part I was objecting to. Like Belly, my DCs on "did you assist or not" are pretty dang low unless for some reason providing aid would be difficult. It would be nice if the general case ruling was assist DCs are either a set number like 15 or 20 or the DC is 5-10 lower than what is required to succeed at the task.

*nods* For group skill checks I agree with that, which is why I use it for group skill checks. Really, there's two kinds of tasks.

Individual Efforts: When everyone is trying to do the same thing, like climb a mountain together. In that case, everyone is already contributing and it's the people with low checks that need the help from the people that specialize in this sort of thing. These are the kind of checks that encourage mentorship, the best climbers helping out the people less skilled in athletics. These sorts of checks require assisting to have the same DC as passing the check - which the best int he group should be able to help with anyway.

Group Efforts: This is when the group as a whole needs to accomplish one thing, like picking a lock. Naturally, you point the person with the highest skill at this task. However, to encourage the other players to contribute to the task as well, you set the DC to assist much lower - so the group is still working tog ether to help their best-lockpicker with the task.

Oh, that's how you meant it? Ok. That should really go in the book at some point.

I agree, and wonder why it's not already in the handbook...

Question: What skill check would you roll in the name of Science? For example, trying to understand some complex research notes?

It'd be up for the DM. I'd probably go for a flat knowledge check (The skill, not the subskill) or History to crossrefence data. Or Heal if it's medical science.

Paper Shadow wrote:Question: What skill check would you roll in the name of Science? For example, trying to understand some complex research notes?

History can work if it's general history of science, arcana if it's at all magical in nature, a straight knowledge check (no skill) or - if you're playing in a non-magical setting - arcana maks a great, "Science/tech" skill.