Re: The Art of War - Massive Combat Talent Update is Live!

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:59 am

This I approve of.

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:05 am

With Never Say Die Trait:
Turn 1: Gather Energy (5 pips)
Turn 2: All or Nothing, Royal Command, Some attack that adds pips (1+ pips)
Turn 3: All or Nothing, Never Stay Down in response to falling unconsious
Turn 4: Gather Energy, All or Nothing
Turn 5: All or Nothing, Royal Command, All or Nothing, Never Stay Down.

Lather, Rinse, and Repeat.

I think this is my new favorite weirdo build.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:07 am

Awesome!

Sadly, it's already outdated. All or Nothing can only be used once per battle as of about fifteen minutes ago. Wink

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:09 am

Oh well, I did think it was a little crazy. But hey, I did have Royal Command every other turn if the party could stop me from getting murdered until that happened.

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:15 am

[+3] Form of the Serene Armadillo
You gain 1d4 temporary hp.

Still isn't an action

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:15 am

thematthew wrote:[+3] Form of the Serene Armadillo
You gain 1d4 temporary hp.

Still isn't an action

Thanks! And... Fixed.

sunbeam Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:36 am

[-3] Blast From The Past - Standard Utility
You cease to exist and can take no actions until the start of your next turn. While you do not exist, you cannot affect any creature and no creature can see or affect you in any way. At the start of your next turn, you reappear and deal 1d12 damage to target creature and all creatures adjacent to it.
I just noticed that this was above the [-2] Wizard talent, which is different from every other layout in the book. This at [+3] seems excessive. Was it just put there out of order by accident?

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:38 am

Also Hammer of Thunder still has no trait. It still costs 7 pips just like all the other summoned weapons do. Well, except Blood Weapon but that costs 10hp and has no trait.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:41 am

Hammer of Thunder makes up for its lack of trait with added raw power. It's just a simpler weapon to use.

And thanks, Blast from the Past was indeed out of order.

sunbeam Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:43 am

[-1] Blood is Power - Minor Utility
You and target creature each suffer 5 ongoing damage (save ends).
This one is between a [-3] and a [-4].

AProcrastinatingWriter Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:43 am

I think my "question" got skipped over, though I may have just missed something myself.

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:One more thing, if you activate All or Nothing and manage to end the battle before the end of your next turn...

...well, I assume you don't fall unconscious, since your next turn never came to an end, but I'd like to have that in writing if I could.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:46 am

Thanks. Fixed.

And for your question APW - you're right.

sunbeam Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:49 am

[-7] Shatter Armor - Standard Attack
Deal 1d10 damage to target creature and that creature suffers that much vulnerability until the end of your next turn.
Isn't the standard format for this "roll a d10. Deal that much damage to target creature, and it suffers that much vulnerability till the end of your next turn" now?

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:52 am

As written you can't use Never Stay Down, since the trigger is falling unconscious and that causes you to immediately lose all pips per the Defeated and Dying section

Sadly, when you fall to 0 hit points you are knocked unconscious and lose all your pips

SilentBelle Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:58 am

thematthew wrote:As written you can't use Never Stay Down, since the trigger is falling unconscious and that causes you to immediately lose all pips per the Defeated and Dying section
Sadly, when you fall to 0 hit points you are knocked unconscious and lose all your pips

But it's an interrupt, therefore it happens prior to you falling unconscious.

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:59 am

But the falling unconscious isn't what is taking all your pips. The zero hp is. The zero pips should be caused by unconsciousness so that the question goes away.

SilentBelle Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:01 am

thematthew wrote:But the falling unconscious isn't what is taking all your pips. The zero hp is. The zero pips should be caused by unconsciousness so that the question goes away.

Nope it's the unconsciousness, after all there's a trait that causes you to stay conscious below 0 HP and keep fighting.

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:05 am

SilentBelle wrote:
thematthew wrote:But the falling unconscious isn't what is taking all your pips. The zero hp is. The zero pips should be caused by unconsciousness so that the question goes away.

Nope it's the unconsciousness, after all there's a trait that causes you to stay conscious below 0 HP and keep fighting.

The confusion is there since the statement is you fall unconscious and lose all your pips, which grammatically ties the lose all your pips to zero hp and not the unconsciousness. This should probably be written as "... knocked unconscious, causing you to lose all your pips." Just to reduce confusion.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:06 am

Yes, it's the unconsciousness. I should clarify that.

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:07 am

Thank you. I hate grammar arguments, but I know people who are much worse than me at it. And they majored in linguistics.

Videocrazy Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:31 am

List of typos and questions:

Fury of the Tempest Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:39 am

Videocrazy wrote:
[-7] Hurricane Blade – Minor Utility
You conjure a Wind Rapier in your hands. You can dismiss the Wind Rapier as a free action. While you are wielding a Wind Rapier, you cannot use your normal combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.

The talent's named Hurricane Blade, but the description keeps calling it a Wind Rapier.

Nothing wrong with that.

Videocrazy wrote:
[-1] Sanguine Cyclone - Standard Utility
Deal 1d12 to target creature and all creatures adjacent to it.

Why is this marked as a Utility? It's clearly doing direct damage on activation.

Exactly the point me thinks.

Videocrazy Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:17 am

Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Videocrazy wrote:
[-7] Hurricane Blade – Minor Utility
You conjure a Wind Rapier in your hands. You can dismiss the Wind Rapier as a free action. While you are wielding a Wind Rapier, you cannot use your normal combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.

The talent's named Hurricane Blade, but the description keeps calling it a Wind Rapier.

Nothing wrong with that.

It just seems off when the Flamberge and Granite Axe are the same in the name and description, and the Hammer of Thunder is called the Thunder Hammer in the description. I just figured the name was changed mid-development and the description wasn't fixed.

Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Videocrazy wrote:
[-1] Sanguine Cyclone - Standard Utility
Deal 1d12 to target creature and all creatures adjacent to it.

Why is this marked as a Utility? It's clearly doing direct damage on activation.

Exactly the point me thinks.

Ah. Missed this part of the description: "However, it’s sometimes put on clearly offense-oriented combat talents - which lets you get around effects like being Blinded very nicely." Though now I am kind of curious as to why it was done that way, if it was on purpose.

Zarhon Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:47 am

[+6] Grab For Power - Standard Utility
Lose 1d8 Pips.

- Do you lose the 1d8 PiPs first, then gain +6 PiPs, OR do you gain +6 PiPs, then lose 1d8 PiPs? If you use this with 0 PiPs, do you gain 6 PiPs automatically (since you have no PiPs to lose), or can you go into negative PiP values?

Bone Mite - 1 HP

Trait - Bloodhusk

When this creature dies, it deals 1d6 damage to target creature.

[0] Burrow In Flesh - Standard Attack

Target creature suffers 1 ongoing damage (save ends).

[0] Bloodfeast - Minor Utility

Sacrifice a Conjuration. Target ally gains 1d6 hp. [*]

Bloodfeast - Does this allow the Blood Mite to sacrifice other conjurations, including those of other creatures?

[-2] Martyr’s Blessing - Minor Utility
Until the end of your next turn, whenever a creature would deal damage to target ally the damage is dealt to you instead.

How does this work in conjunction with stuff that prevents damage or reacts to it, such as resist, temporary hit points, "take damage to trigger" stuff, or "cannot be attacked" stuff (like the warden conjuration)?

elfowlgirl Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:45 am

I... I have to kind of rant now, as I literally just woke up and this has been bugging me.

WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO ABOUT CAMPAIGNS WE'RE ALREADY IN?

The only logical choice with a revamp to the entire Celestia-darned system is to basically redesign all of our characters. That... that's not worth it. For me, at least.

Also, what about people like me who have been planning campaigns before this? I've got like, 5-8 monster that are perfectly how I want them (although only two have been playtested). So do I have to spend some extra time redesigning these guys with the new system that I still don't really understand? I never really understood a lot of the combat system before, but this whole thing seems like overkill. 111 TALENTS? Couldn't you release them in like, TWO expansions so we aren't just completely overwhelmed?

Also, you could trigger It's Over now in what, two turns?

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