Re: The Art of War - Massive Combat Talent Update is Live!

Hayatecooper Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:39 am

oooh you can? how?

Trigger It's Over turn two I mean

**Paper Shadow** Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:44 am

elfowlgirl wrote:I... I have to kind of rant now, as I literally just woke up and this has been bugging me.

WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO ABOUT CAMPAIGNS WE'RE ALREADY IN?

The only logical choice with a revamp to the entire Celestia-darned system is to basically redesign all of our characters. That... that's not worth it. For me, at least.

Also, what about people like me who have been planning campaigns before this? I've got like, 5-8 monster that are perfectly how I want them (although only two have been playtested). So do I have to spend some extra time redesigning these guys with the new system that I still don't really understand? I never really understood a lot of the combat system before, but this whole thing seems like overkill. 111 TALENTS? Couldn't you release them in like, TWO expansions so we aren't just completely overwhelmed?

If you want, just say in the OOC that your campaign won't use the Art of War expansion. These things are optional. Heck, if the GM wants, you only need to core book to play...

elfowlgirl wrote:Also, you could trigger It's Over now in what, two turns?

Could you explain how you got that? The ways I thought of require you to put yourself in a bad situation with Gather Energy into Double Trance or Double Dark Bargain (Four Turn It's Over), or getting really lucky with rolling low on Gather Energy into Double Grab for Power (depending on what you roll and other skills, Four Turn It's Over, or even Three Turns if both rolls are 1 and with I Meant To Do That), or hoping for a lucky Derpy's Lighting proc with d12 on Critfisher (Gather Energy into Double Critfisher, repeat, between Two Turns and Five Turns It's Over)...

Fury of the Tempest Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:17 am

Videocrazy wrote:
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Videocrazy wrote:
[-7] Hurricane Blade – Minor Utility
You conjure a Wind Rapier in your hands. You can dismiss the Wind Rapier as a free action. While you are wielding a Wind Rapier, you cannot use your normal combat talents. Instead you may use the combat talents below.

The talent's named Hurricane Blade, but the description keeps calling it a Wind Rapier.

Nothing wrong with that.

It just seems off when the Flamberge and Granite Axe are the same in the name and description, and the Hammer of Thunder is called the Thunder Hammer in the description. I just figured the name was changed mid-development and the description wasn't fixed.

'Death's Scythe' is refereed to as 'Necro Scythe' however.

Also, you don't have to revamp your characters you know.

RavenscroftRaven Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 pm

Hayatecooper wrote:oooh you can? how?

Trigger It's Over turn two I mean

There's an entire thread in the combat forums describing the various ways to turn two It's Over, to show how unbalanced it is.

**Paper Shadow** Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:35 pm

RavenscroftRaven wrote:
Hayatecooper wrote:oooh you can? how?

Trigger It's Over turn two I mean

There's an entire thread in the combat forums describing the various ways to turn two It's Over, to show how unbalanced it is.

Oh, it requires teamwork to get it in two turns? Aww...

Also, how it was worded in the post above made it sound like you could do it in two turns thanks to this new expansion...

elfowlgirl Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:35 pm

Paper Shadow wrote:
RavenscroftRaven wrote:
Hayatecooper wrote:oooh you can? how?

Trigger It's Over turn two I mean

There's an entire thread in the combat forums describing the various ways to turn two It's Over, to show how unbalanced it is.
Oh, it requires teamwork to get it in two turns? Aww...

Also, how it was worded in the post above made it sound like you could do it in two turns thanks to this new expansion...

Yeah, I... think I misread something there.

It was before I noticed the surprising lack of +Pip minor talents.

**Paper Shadow** Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:18 pm

elfowlgirl wrote:Yeah, I... think I misread something there.

It was before I noticed the surprising lack of +Pip minor talents.

Oh, I totally forgot about minor talents. But yeah, I think it would be strong if minor talents gave many pips, so it's good there isn't any...

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Yeah, minor talents are almost never going to give pips - for exactly that reason.

We'll be answering questions soon as we can; we were pre-booked for a major Worldbuilding session today.

Fury of the Tempest Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:16 pm

The only Minor I see which grants Pip's is Flash Step...

... ... Thinking about it... Flash Step... was that name taken from Bleach? Because its starting to remind me of a move I made... admittedly mine is stronger but still...

SilentBelle Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm

Zarhon wrote:
[+6] Grab For Power - Standard Utility
Lose 1d8 Pips.
- Do you lose the 1d8 PiPs first, then gain +6 PiPs, OR do you gain +6 PiPs, then lose 1d8 PiPs? If you use this with 0 PiPs, do you gain 6 PiPs automatically (since you have no PiPs to lose), or can you go into negative PiP values?

Bone Mite - 1 HP

Trait - Bloodhusk

When this creature dies, it deals 1d6 damage to target creature.

[0] Burrow In Flesh - Standard Attack

Target creature suffers 1 ongoing damage (save ends).

[0] Bloodfeast - Minor Utility

Sacrifice a Conjuration. Target ally gains 1d6 hp. [*]

Bloodfeast - Does this allow the Blood Mite to sacrifice other conjurations, including those of other creatures?

[-2] Martyr’s Blessing - Minor Utility
Until the end of your next turn, whenever a creature would deal damage to target ally the damage is dealt to you instead.

How does this work in conjunction with stuff that prevents damage or reacts to it, such as resist, temporary hit points, "take damage to trigger" stuff, or "cannot be attacked" stuff (like the warden conjuration)?

1) Always deal with pips in brackets first

2) It probably should say allied conjurations

3) It actually allows resist to work twice. It can deal your ally temporary HP damage so long as it doesn't do actual HP damage. And you still take the damage even if you are warded, since you aren't technically attacked. I hope that clears up some stuff Smile

Fury of the Tempest Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:07 pm

@3)

Wait... so if you have Resist 3, and your ally have resist 3, then the attack is reduced by 6 in total?

sunbeam Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:12 pm

The Art of War describes the weapon summon talents as "conjuring them," so could you use them as conjurations, largely for sacrifice purposes? The only one I can think of is using a bone mite's sacrifice ability, which is generally a terrible trade, but maybe you really need the hp or something. So do the weapons count as conjurations?

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:16 pm

SilentBelle wrote:
Zarhon wrote:
[+6] Grab For Power - Standard Utility
Lose 1d8 Pips.
- Do you lose the 1d8 PiPs first, then gain +6 PiPs, OR do you gain +6 PiPs, then lose 1d8 PiPs? If you use this with 0 PiPs, do you gain 6 PiPs automatically (since you have no PiPs to lose), or can you go into negative PiP values?

Bone Mite - 1 HP

Trait - Bloodhusk

When this creature dies, it deals 1d6 damage to target creature.

[0] Burrow In Flesh - Standard Attack

Target creature suffers 1 ongoing damage (save ends).

[0] Bloodfeast - Minor Utility

Sacrifice a Conjuration. Target ally gains 1d6 hp. [*]

Bloodfeast - Does this allow the Blood Mite to sacrifice other conjurations, including those of other creatures?

[-2] Martyr’s Blessing - Minor Utility
Until the end of your next turn, whenever a creature would deal damage to target ally the damage is dealt to you instead.

How does this work in conjunction with stuff that prevents damage or reacts to it, such as resist, temporary hit points, "take damage to trigger" stuff, or "cannot be attacked" stuff (like the warden conjuration)?

1) Always deal with pips in brackets first

2) It probably should say allied conjurations

3) It actually allows resist to work twice. It can deal your ally temporary HP damage so long as it doesn't do actual HP damage. And you still take the damage even if you are warded, since you aren't technically attacked. I hope that clears up some stuff

1) Yep.

2) Fixed!

3) Technically no, the damage isn't actually reduced on your ally because you redirect it to you first - all of it including what your ally would have resisted.

Fury of the Tempest Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:24 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:3) Technically no, the damage isn't actually reduced on your ally because you redirect it to you first - all of it including what your ally would have resisted.

That does make more sense...

Now excuse me, I need to continue work of Art of War - Evolved Combat Talents and Masterpiece of War Combat Traits.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:28 pm

Can't wait to see your work. Very Happy

**Paper Shadow** Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:37 pm

So, I have been thinking about the Assassin's Gambit 12 Crit. I feel that, while an insta-kill is indeed incredibly powerful, if you fail the second throw, you get nothing, which makes the move very weak when compared to other Special Moves, most importantly the Derpy's Lightning/It's Over combo. To compare, the latter (usually) has a 1/5 chance to trigger its killing move, although it is weaker than the insta-kill, but if you don't get it, you still get something from one of your other moves. And while it means you have to take It's Over into combat to do that, while Assassin's Gambit is always there, it is still more efficient to do that for each combat scenario than risk it on Assassin's Gambit. I understand that not every crit is equal (after all, the Be Prepared 8 Crit is much better than the Derpy's Lightning 8 Crit), but I believe the 12 Crit is the centrepiece of Assassin's Gambit, the main reason one would get it. The 8 Crit is nice, and may actually be the real centrepiece, and although I'm not a fan of the 10 Crit, people who focus more on damage than survivability will like it, the 12 Crit is the thing that screams Assassin, and it would be nice if it felt better to use...

Now, I'm not saying make it do a lot if you do fail. After all, the design is All-or-Nothing. But I believe that it would feel better as a Special Move if it did something, even if that something is very small. A consolation prize, if you will. Even something like Ongoing Damage 1 (Save Ends). It turns the failure from "Well, that was a waste," to "Well, it's something."

So; what do you think about that?

Fury of the Tempest Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:46 pm

Well, if you follow the links in the titles, you'll be able to see some of the work I've done already.

About Guarded Stance, its affect is applied after Resistance, right?

thematthew Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:06 pm

Iron Shield - 1000 Gold
Trinket
Once per battle you may use the following combat talent.

[0] Endure Pain - Interrupt Utility [1/Battle]
Trigger - You would be reduced to 0 hp or less.
Effect - You are reduced to 1 hp instead.

[+5] All or Nothing - Standard Utility
At the end of your next turn you are reduced to -15 hp. You may use this talent only once per battle.

I just want to make sure you meant to do this, because that kinda negates the whole issue of that talent.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:12 am

An intentional combo actually. =)

At some point I might increase the price of Iron Shield a bit though. It's so popular at the moment that I might inflate it to 1500 to 2000 pips to encourage other options as well.

Xel Unknown Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:23 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:An intentional combo actually. =)

At some point I might increase the price of Iron Shield a bit though. It's so popular at the moment that I might inflate it to 1500 to 2000 bits to encourage other options as well.

There fixed it for yea.

Unless you meant to imply there'd be a pip costing talent in the thoundends. XD

Xel Unknown Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:00 am

I suggest that the Dark Spectre conjuration needs a third combat talent to help set it apart from being an upgraded Shadow Wraith.

Also noticed that the Shadow Wraith on the Living Legends battle doc got a major "typo" of being without the second talent in there.

**Philadelphus** Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:07 pm

Just a head's up, I noticed an odd-looking box shape in the Hurricane Blade description that looks like it's out of place.

kajisora Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:39 am

[-1] Preserve the Bodies - Interrupt Utility [Created by Silent Belle]
Trigger - An ally with 0 or fewer HP would take damage from an attack
Effect - Grant the triggering ally 1d10 temporary hp.

So, wait... does this mean it actually blocks the damage that would be dealt as well? Seems powerful for a -1 interrupt.
Edit: nvm. I should read the definitions better. It acts like a shield.

I love all those +x/-x abilities by the way. so very,very versatile....

EDIT:
Also, would the Bone Mite's

[0] Bloodfeast - Minor Utility
Sacrifice a Conjuration you or a willing ally controls. Target ally gains 1d6 hp.

still trigger it's trait:

Trait - Bloodhusk
When this creature dies, it deals 1d6 damage to target creature.

and similar on-death traits from the other conjurations?
I would assume yes, but it's always nice to be sure

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:15 pm

Philadelphus wrote:Just a head's up, I noticed an odd-looking box shape in the Hurricane Blade description that looks like it's out of place.

Thanks. Not sure how it got there but we got rid of it after a brief struggle. It was hard to delete.

kajisora wrote:Edit: nvm. I should read the definitions better. It acts like a shield.

Absolutely correct.

kajisora wrote:I love all those +x/-x abilities by the way. so very,very versatile....

Thanks! We had a lot of fun making them. =)

kajisora wrote:EDIT:
Also, would the Bone Mite's
[0] Bloodfeast - Minor Utility
Sacrifice a Conjuration you or a willing ally controls. Target ally gains 1d6 hp.
still trigger it's trait:
Trait - Bloodhusk
When this creature dies, it deals 1d6 damage to target creature.
and similar on-death traits from the other conjurations?
I would assume yes, but it's always nice to be sure

You assume correctly. Sacrificing does indeed destroy the creature and trigger all associated effects.

**Philadelphus** Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:04 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Philadelphus wrote:Just a head's up, I noticed an odd-looking box shape in the Hurricane Blade description that looks like it's out of place.

Thanks. Not sure how it got there but we got rid of it after a brief struggle. It was hard to delete.

No problem, just doing my part to keep things looking nice. Glad to hear you were able to vanquish the Mysterious Box. Smile

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