Racing Rules

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AAAAAAAAAAND...

GO!

Spoiler:

Hey guys,

For a while now, I'd been trying to think of a way to make races more dramatic and immersive in this system - I mean, after all, this is PONY-Tales, and if you think about it, wouldn't you imagine ponies racing, like, ALL THE TIME?!

-I would.

That's why I wanted something more than your basic opposed skill check challenges to represent them, because, let's face it - skill check challenges are okay, but all they boil down to most of the time are just a bunch of rolls of a D20 with stat buffs added in.

The best stats win!

-That usually seems to be the case, anyway.

So I wanted something different - something more strategic, more climactic, something that really captured the high-octane, steady build up and blinding finish of a true race. That's why I made my own custom Racing Rules (which is a mix of combat and skill checks - with a few new mechanics added in), for incorporation into Pony Tales games (and I imagine even LL could use them really) that hopefully do all of the above... and more!

So without further ado, the link to the Google Doc of the rules is listed below. I tried to make the rules as user-friendly as possible, but if anypony has an idea of how I can edit them to be more clear (or streamline) - please let me know. I also would appreciate any feedback you can give me about the mechanics themselves - especially if you ever give them a spin in your own campaigns.

Hope you like 'em!

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8ePfwdVM5QYUVc4MnpVWjctdTQ

Huh. Interesting idea. I like how you wrote it up as an optional expansion for other people to use. So let me see if I get this straight: basically, every turn of the race, all competitors gain PiPs based on their position, then make a skill check adding their PiP total to the check, then get to decide if they want to put on a burst of speed by spending PiPs, then get to engage in a modified form of combat for priority? (Calling the skill check step 'Race Activation' kinda threw me, as I thought it meant it was only at the start of the race.)

Roleplaying games on motor cycles?

Let's kick this turbo-combat into overdrive!

Okay, skimmed the document before going to bed. I think you've got a great concept for a supplemental system. However, I think it might be making things a bit needlessly complicated in some places. You probably don't need 10 separate bullets as listed to get your concept across in the best possible way. Of course, I haven't read it in depth yet so I could be completely wrong about this - but in general the core idea seems something you could probably express in a simple and elegant manner. That's a very good thing. =)

I've been wanting to read this since that race in P-File's started! :3

*get's reading to brainstorm something awesome for Jokers...*

Mid-reading edit: Ok... My first susggestion is that pip gain from momentum/adrenaline be from 0 to 4... Here's how I'd do it. First you have to deal the people in the places of first to fifth leading the race at the time get 0, but can make a "saving throw" with some -X pentality that if won gets you a pip. Following by the people in the upper half of the racing pack getting one pip, the ones in the lower half get two pips, the tail end get 3 pips, and depending on how the race is going they might get a "saving throw" to gain an extra pip too without any pentality to that throw. Oh yeah also last pace should ALWAYS give the racer the max number of pips you can gain, I'd say... But of course most of these factors only come into play if one is running a HUGE "running of the leaves" level of racing event.

My only problem with it is...In the event of multiple racers getting close enough to attack, what keeps it from being "Whoever has the biggest AoE" wins? I understand this is more aggressive racing, but it seems a little counterproductive for the race to be decided because someone brought something insane like It's Over! ...

I'm not saying that you should do this, but have you considered having the number of pips a player gains each round be somewhat randomized? Like rolling a d4 if you're in first, a d6 if you're in second, a d8 if you're in third, d10 4th, d12 5th and d20 6+?

This isn't necessarily a good idea. I'm just wondering if you've explored it yet.

EDIT - Want to emphasize that I don't think the d4, d6, d8 thing is going to be at all balanced as stated. The variance is ridiculously high. Just using it as an example of the basic idea.

Philadelphus wrote:Huh. Interesting idea. I like how you wrote it up as an optional expansion for other people to use. So let me see if I get this straight: basically, every turn of the race, all competitors gain PiPs based on their position, then make a skill check adding their PiP total to the check, then get to decide if they want to put on a burst of speed by spending PiPs, then get to engage in a modified form of combat for priority? (Calling the skill check step 'Race Activation' kinda threw me, as I thought it meant it was only at the start of the race.)

Yep. That's right.

I'm going to try and clear up the race activation thing... Sorry about that. Let's see if this version works better...

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Okay, skimmed the document before going to bed. I think you've got a great concept for a supplemental system. However, I think it might be making things a bit needlessly complicated in some places. You probably don't need 10 separate bullets as listed to get your concept across in the best possible way. Of course, I haven't read it in depth yet so I could be completely wrong about this - but in general the core idea seems something you could probably express in a simple and elegant manner. That's a very good thing. =)

My goal is to be as clear as possible, giving multiple examples of some of the different situations that come up... but maybe I'm being too detailed?

Xel Unknown wrote:
Mid-reading edit: Ok... My first susggestion is that pip gain from momentum/adrenaline be from 0 to 4... Here's how I'd do it. First you have to deal the people in the places of first to fifth leading the race at the time get 0, but can make a "saving throw" with some -X pentality that if won gets you a pip. Following by the people in the upper half of the racing pack getting one pip, the ones in the lower half get two pips, the tail end get 3 pips, and depending on how the race is going they might get a "saving throw" to gain an extra pip too without any pentality to that throw. Oh yeah also last pace should ALWAYS give the racer the max number of pips you can gain, I'd say... But of course most of these factors only come into play if one is running a HUGE "running of the leaves" level of racing event.

I admittedly haven't tried this system out with anything other than a one-on-one yet, but I'd ideally like it to be compatible for big racing events as well.

I hear what you'r saying Xel, but from what I saw so far in the P-Files race, if you don't give the lead racers any PiPs, then it becomes near impossible to ever maintain a lead. I'd want there to be a chance to maintain a lead, while also making it possible for the other racers to still catch up. If anything, racers in the top tier positions would need to get 1 PiP a turn I think (that way they can Turbo Boost ever once in a while), mid tier racers could then get 2, and toilet bowl 3.

I also don't want the guys in last place to always be able to come back from the bottom of the pack with no forethought. They should have to still think out how and when they want to use their PiPs, and if they're swimming in too many of them, then it just becomes too easy for the last place racers to always make a comeback. I think 3 at most should be the limit, because that means they're still getting 3x as many PiPs as the lead racers (which adds up quickly - not to mention it being enough for a turbo boost every turn).

Caden2112 wrote:My only problem with it is...In the event of multiple racers getting close enough to attack, what keeps it from being "Whoever has the biggest AoE" wins? I understand this is more aggressive racing, but it seems a little counterproductive for the race to be decided because someone brought something insane like It's Over! ...

Like I said, I still need to playtest these rules for bigger races, but I honestly don't see It's Over! in particular being a major problem. In the one race I've run so far, the two participants never had more than 12 PiPs on them over the course of the race (which lasted 10 bands I believe). They were too busy spending PiPs to get Turbo Boosts - and keep in mind, if a racer falls more than 3 bands behind the other racers, they're out of the race for good. Somepony that was saving up for a 21 PiP attack would never keep up with the pack, and would fall behind rather quickly.

As far as other AoE's go, I think it would also balance out. There really aren't that many AoE attacks in the game (I don't think anyway - It's hard to keep track with the new combat expansion that just came out). Even so, if somepony brings an AoE and start whacking all the other racers that would be a sure-fire way to make a lot of enemies fast, putting a big target on the AoE user's head. At that point, I'd expect the others to just gang up on on the AoE guy every time they got the chance, thus making them be the auto-loser in most combat rounds.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:I'm not saying that you should do this, but have you considered having the number of pips a player gains each round be somewhat randomized? Like rolling a d4 if you're in first, a d6 if you're in second, a d8 if you're in third, d10 4th, d12 5th and d20 6+?

This isn't necessarily a good idea. I'm just wondering if you've explored it yet.

EDIT - Want to emphasize that I don't think the d4, d6, d8 thing is going to be at all balanced as stated. The variance is ridiculously high. Just using it as an example of the basic idea.

I actually hadn't really thought of that idea yet because I thought a set number would keep things simple, and also make things more fair to all the racers. I could possibly see something like flipping a coin, or rolling a d4... but after that, it would get a little too random - thus cutting down on the strategy behind the system. I kind of like the PiP gain without the added randomness... But it could still be added in as an alternative to set numbers, for the GMs to decide for themselves. I could definitely see how some people would prefer the added randomness.

I like them... Just don't see them as too complex. (This feels really weird coming form me, I'm Mr. Super-Complex-Maker-Man) It's good for racing, but that's all it's good for, and even then, it only was build on the low end race type of system. Still it's a start, something akin to this gotta end up being made that'd be good for nearly anything skill challage-ish one could think up would be cool.

Well Xel, I honestly think that simplicity's a good thing as long as it still gives the players a lot of options, and I think that these rules do that pretty well so far.

Keep in mind too, these are called Racing Rules for a reason. They were originally made with solely with racing in mind. I don't see how it's really a bad thing if they currently can only be used for racing and nothing else... That typed however, they could also be used for a chase sequence (say, when the party's going after a bad guy, for instance). Keeping in mind that a party often finds themselves chasing somepony down, I could see these rules being used in a lot of different campaigns.

@Caden:

You know, after I first replied to your post, I realized that I'd completely forgot the wording of my own rules... Whoops...

So, actually I might have to change the wording of the combat rules a bit. It's understandably a bit ambiguous right now, but I didn't mean for racers to add up all damage dealt to ALL RACERS to determine who wins each round. I was imaging that each one-on-one combat would be counted separately. So, for instance, if a racer uses Fireswath on 10 other racers and rolls a 10 for damage, I hadn't imagined he would count as having 100 damage dealt overall. Instead, the Fireswath guy (FW) would deal 10 damage in combat 1 against Racer X... 10 damage in combat 2 against Racer Y... 10 damage in combat 3 against Racer Z... and so on.

To continue the example, let's then say that Racer X (being the super-cool colt that he is), deals 21 damage to FW in return... While Racer Y doesn't even attack FW because he's focused on somepony else, and Racer Z attacks, but only for 11 damage...

Now, this gets into yet another thing I hadn't considered before, what would you do when you lose multiple combats in one combat round?

I'm thinking that you'd go with the worst result... So in the example, FW would be knocked back a band even though he won against Racer Y. He'd also suffer a penalty to his next Race Activation check... in this case it would be a -11, that is, if we stick with my current rules for penalizing racers for taking more than double damage.

It's also interesting to note that in the above example, Racer Y would also drop a band because he lost to FW... and he'd suffer a -10 penalty to his next race check too. Ouch.

Hm... The penalties might be a bit too steep here, considering. They'll have to be playtested some more to tell for sure...

-But you get the idea about what I was planning for AoEs at least. It would be more of a thing where each player chooses their target, then fights a one on one combat round. I might have to also make it where racers can work together to beat somepony else down, thus adding all their damage together to compare it to the opposition... Need to think about that a bit more too... but yeah.

Ah, I was also worried about what I've dubbed the Mario Kart phenomenon where one person gets hit by everyone else and would end up with something like -60 damage (Furious Rage! Fireswath! Another Furious Rage! Blind Rage! etc) and basically getting to the point where he couldn't possibly compete due to being unable to pass his check...But yeah, if you only go with the worst result, that also answers that problem.

My complaint was more or less just minoring the fact I felt that I just couldn't figure out something to build form it. Cause I did want too, but now I can't see how.

Glad I could calm some of your concerns Caden. I'll need to make an update to the rules document sometime soon to clear that up.

Also, what did you have in mind Xel? If I have an idea of your idea, we might could brainstorm something.

BTW - I also thought of something else this system could be used for! After a little tweaking, I could see it being a perfect system for outrunning death traps!

Cue the Indiana Jones Boulder Run!

Spoiler:

Out-running thugs, chasing thugs, trying to get somewhere on time (not sure how that would work, route selection to dictate how many PIPs you get?), escaping a collapsing area, climbing stuff and that's just off the top of my head.