A Brand New System - Official Announcement

Have you considered re-working the Assistance mechanic?

It just seems to me that if I an Athletics score of 18, than I should be able to provide a much bigger assist thab someone with a score of 10.

Pending on the situation, the argument could be present to why the one with the higher score isn't the one attempting the check in the first place.

ZamuelNow wrote:Pending on the situation, the argument could be present to why the one with the higher score isn't the one attempting the check in the first place.

Wasn't this mentioned somewhere already (might be another thread, or on skype) as a problem that will be addressed via the new system?

I do agree that the current assists certainly need some 'updating', whether to rule out and clarify some of the details (crits, confirmation DCs, rolls that are larger than the original...), or to make assists more enticing in general - they're just not that exciting or significant (compared to most abilities or MP uses).

In practice, I've seen a majority of players use assists as such:
- After a nudge/suggestion from the DM, to make an 'important' roll succeed. If there isn't a nudge, or it isn't obvious the roll is about to fail, the assist usually don't happen.
- Any value a bit under 15, since DC15 is the 'go-to' DC for succeeding almost anything trivial. DC20 is treated similarly, being the next tier of challenge, which usually comes close on an average roll.
- The skill used to assist is almost always the one being used by the assisted player, which is a lack of creativity / lazy / defeats the RP purpose. Confirmation DC for these are either DC15 (simplest assist), or 'match/out-do the player's roll' which is hard to do.
- Creative methods of assisting are rare, usually to assist via your 'main skill' due to the other skill values being too weak (e.g. assisting an engineer with +15 arcana instead of +5 mechanics). Persuasion is most common/flexible, if it's high.

Archmage
Level 4 - Student of the Arcane
You have set your path upon the mastery of magic. Whenever you make an Arcana check, you may roll twice and take the higher result. In addition, you gain a +10 bonus to Arcana checks made to identify spells and magical effects and gain access to the following feature.

[-X] Arcane Blast - Minor Attack (Single) [2/Battle]
Deal 3d10+Xd6 damage to target creature, where X is the amount of energy you spent this way.


Level 7 - Arcanist
Your skills in the arcane arts have become truly extraordinary. You have begun to learn secret magics to reach beyond your mortal shell and expand the power of your arcane blasts. You gain access to the following features.

Arcane Projection  – 1/Day
Preparation Time: 30 Seconds
You create an illusionary projection of yourself that lasts for 20 minutes. Your projection appears exactly as you do. Your projection can fly and move through non-magical objects, though it must remain within 100 feet of you. You can see, hear and speak through your projection. In addition, you can use your abilities through your projection (as long as the abilities don’t require your projection to physically interact with things). You also gain a +10 bonus to perception checks made through your project. It takes a DC 30 Perception or Arcana check to recognize your projection as an illusion.

At any time, you can choose to render your projection invisible. While invisible, it takes a DC 40 Perception check or a DC 30 Arcana check to notice your projection’s presence.


Arcane Secrets
Choose two of the Arcane Secrets below. When you use your Arcane Blast, you may add one of your chosen Arcane Secrets to its effects.

Arcane Fire
The target of your Arcane Blast also suffers 1d12+10 ongoing damage (save ends).

Arcane Lightning
For each 7 or higher you roll on a d10 for Arcane Blast, you may deal 3d12 damage to any creature.

Arcane Power
For every 7 or higher you roll on a d10 for Arcane Blast, you may gain 5 energy.

Arcane Drain
The target of your Arcane Blast is subjected to your Arcane Drain (save ends). When a creature subjected to your Arcane Drain starts its turn, it takes 12 damage and you gain 12 life.


Level 10 - Master of the Arcane
Your mastery of the arcane arts has become the stuff of legends. You have learned the greatest of arcane secrets and drunk from the heady nectar of magic’s most ancient mysteries.

Legendary Magic
You have devised your own spells to mimic the most powerful of abilities. Gain 8 Legendary Ability Points.

Greater Arcane Secrets
The power of your arcane blasts is now terrifying to behold. Choose a 3rd Arcane Secret for the Level 7 feature. Then, choose two of the following Greater Arcane Secrets. When you use Arcane Blast, you may apply one of the chosen Greater Arcane Secrets (in addition to one of your normal Arcane Secrets).

Arcane Special
Gain 4 energy and activate all three of your special moves.

Arcane Mastery
Instead of applying only one of your normal Arcane Secrets to your Arcane Blast, you may apply all three instead.

Arcane Explosion
After you use Arcane Blast, you may use the following combat power
[0] Explosion - Reaction Attack
Trigger - You use Arcane Blast
Effect - Deal 4d8 damage to up to three target creatures.

Arcane Speed
After you use Arcane Blast, you may immediately take three standard actions.

Our first draft of a destiny under the new system. We're still playing around with lots of ideas and nothing's written in stone, but we figured it'd be fun to show a sneak peek at our current build for Archmage.

Considering the damage amounts those nuke-tastic abilities give, just how much hp are monsters expected to have on average? Seems like "monster vs player" hp values will have to be pretty darn inflated, if the DM expects his non-minion monsters to live past turn 1.

Also brings into question how "domination" will work with these kinds of destiny nukes - just one use of those archmage destinies seems like enough to cause a TPK, or instant-KOs. Could cause immense grief when the BBEG uses your own destinies against you, requiring the PCs to get some form of immunity just for it.

Furthermore - how will leveling affect the monsters/challenges? Current system implies / suggests that leveling causes the monsters/challenges to 'scale down', in the sense that strong enemy abilities become (by DM nerfing the numbers) significantly weaker at lvl10, than they did at lvl1, but I don't think most DMs actually bother with that (unless they intentionally made an encounter to be super-easy / manageable, which is usually irrelevant to level / monsters fought).

It made the whole deal of 'gaining power' seem non-apparent, outside of getting gold for items, and most non-combat skill checks continued to be as hard as they were at lvl1, since you only improve via ability points, whilst your stats remained static.

It's rather silly when your level 10 godlike character is still as unperceptive when it comes to checking for stuff like traps as they did at lvl1, or is unable to bust through the same kind of door that stumped them at lvl1. Granted, this is a thing up to the DM to manage, but it's generally troublesome to properly implement at times (e.g. if the adventure happens over a short time - a few days, or they start at a high level, or it's a realistic LL campaign).

Keep in mind that since the whole system is being reworked, so we don't actually have anything to relate it to in terms of power. It'd be powerful if it was added into the current system, but only once we get the complete new system can we truly evaluate its power...

Keep in mind that since the whole system is being reworked, so we don't actually have anything to relate it to in terms of power. It'd be powerful if it was added into the current system, but only once we get the complete new system can we truly evaluate its power...

Well, one could make a mathematical assumption via the 'average combat duration'. Five rounds average is the current design, and I assume* it will be in the update. Take the average damage of those destiny abilities, factor in the crit values, multiply by number of expected rounds, and you've got a basic hp formula to get an idea of what hp 'minimum' could be expected, which in the new system might need to be double-sided (players and monsters), if domination-like effect remain.

*Making combat last longer is a double-edged sword: on one hand, it does boost the fun/strategy/planning/engagement/challenge (especially for the board version) and lets the DM properly 'show off' their monsters (DMs like to use cool things in combat too, you know!), but it also makes it cumbersome for Skype sessions and grueling for PbPs. Add immense amount of things to track/calculate, like in that archmage destiny attack, and it gets pretty complicated, slow, and bogged down, which can be problematic for live games with limited time-schedules.

Paper Shadow wrote:Keep in mind that since the whole system is being reworked, so we don't actually have anything to relate it to in terms of power.

This is actually the reason why I can't really give any feedback. Without anything to compare it to, the numbers are kinda empty.

All I can give for feedback is that I all the more dislike the movement to remove the devide of combat and noncombat in the way you guys are doing it. I'd be fine if this was planed more to be just a type of "optional brigde" thing... But nope... It's clear that it's going to be an fully integrated and intended part of the system to be used and enjoyed by all... Therefore all the players that loved the charm of the very devide to begin with... Are never going to really enjoy this change.

Paper Shadow wrote:Keep in mind that since the whole system is being reworked, so we don't actually have anything to relate it to in terms of power. It'd be powerful if it was added into the current system, but only once we get the complete new system can we truly evaluate its power...

This. The new 4-energy system feels a lot more powerful than the old 3-energy system (and personally I'm looking forward to trying it out – I think it'll be a lot more fun), but it's all balanced relative to itself.

I'm pretty sure player starting HP will be a higher too, and I know there are things you can take to increase it further.

Additionally, a standard action is worth roughly 14 damage.

Go higher. That's all I'll say for now.

Another destiny draft for you to see.

Assassin

Level 4 - Night Stalker
You gain the following ability:

Nightwisp - 7/Day
Trigger - You or another creature you can see would fail a stealth check
Effect - They gain a +5 bonus to the check. You may expend an additional use of this power to make it a +10 bonus instead.

You also gain the following powers:
[0] Deathmark - Free Utility [1/Round]
Put a Deathmark on target creature. A creature can have any number of Deathmarks.

[0] Assassinate - Reaction Attack (Single)
Trigger - You deal damage to a creature that has one of your Deathmarks.
Effect - You may remove up to 3 of your Deathmarks from that creature. Deal damage to that creature based on the number of Deathmarks removed:
1: 2d8 damage.
       2: 3d12 damage.
       3: 5d12 damage.


Level 7 - Night Slayer
You gain the following ability, and create a Password for it. You may change this password when you take an extended rest.
Back Door - At Will
Preparation Time: 10 Seconds
Touch a surface and create a small Shadow Mark. You can have two at a time. A creature  can touch one of your Shadow Marks and speak the chosen password to Activate it, and be teleported to the other. It takes a DC 30 Arcana Check to dispel a Shadow Mark, but a Shadow Mark cannot be detected until it has been activated.

Choose one of the following powers:

[0] Deathwish - Reaction Utility
Trigger - You roll initiative
Effect - Do each of the following.
- Put a Deathmark on target creature
- Put a Deathmark on target creature
- Put a Deathmark on target creature
- Put a Deathmark on target creature
- Put a Deathmark on target creature
You may target different creatures with each effect.


[0] First Strike - Reaction Attack
Trigger - You roll initiative
Effect - Do each of the following.
- Deal 1d20 damage to target creature.
- Deal 1d20 damage to target creature.
- Deal 1d20 damage to target creature.
- Deal 1d20 damage to target creature.
You may target different creatures with each effect. Whenever you roll a 20 you may activate all of your special moves.


Level 10 - Master of Shadows
You also gain the following ability:

Nowhere is Safe - 1/Session
Preparation Time: 1 Hour
Choose any location, even a location that you have never visited or seen. You and up to 6 willing creatures you can touch are transported to that location. You could choose something specific like “Lord Galifar’s Throne Room” and you would appear there. You can even choose something vague or generic like “A garden,” and you would appear at a garden somewhere. However, the selection needs to be based on a literal feature or attribute of the location, and not an attribute that’s debatable or abstract, like something based on “the party’s best interest” - you can’t say “The place where we need to go to succeed in the adventure,” though you can still say “The location where our captured friend is held.”


Shadow Noose - 3/Day
Preperation Time: 1 Minute
Spend a minute concentrating on someone you can see. Their shadow animates and strangles them, dealing 111 damage to that creature.

Well I feel totally the same about that level ten combat skill... It's really... Odd... 111 damage is really dang weird number to put out there. And likely would ONLY be useful on PCs cause of how unlikely this system is ever going to get a clear monster manual therefore all enemy HP totals will be who knows what. But I will say it's neat to have an initiative trigger duo that gotta be picked between having one or the other trigger. That seem neat... And the deathmark mechanic doesn't seem like it'll be horrible brokenness in practice... But wont be shocked if it does somehow...

Your faith in us is heartening Xel. =)

I don't know if you're willing to revamp the Skills system this much, but a homebrew version me and a couple of other people use flips the Skill/Attribute system on its head. You gain 22 Skill points to begin with, and you apply them to the Skills, then your Attribute is calculated based upon the relative value of each Skill under it. It works a lot better IMO, because with the other way, if I wanted to make a gunsmith, for example, I would need to make my character a Precision for Mechanics, Knowledge for Arcana (for the science behind guns) and Horse-Sense for Perception, when it comes to aiming. With this way, I can apply the point directly to those skills and then use my Abilities to supplement the flavor, rather than just burning them in order to get the Skill points to make the character work to begin with. I think its definitely worth considering, and maybe doing away with Attributes altogether. The entire system is based off of customisability, so it works with the design intent much more easily.

We definitely want to expand the skill system's customization. We've actually just eliminated attributes entirely and plan to let people simply allocate between various skills.

So... I hate to bug you, but how's the Player's Handbook coming along?