Pony Tales: Aspirations of Harmony
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The P-Files

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Post  Ramsus Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:05 pm

Whisper, ignoring Gleeda because bringing yourself down just because someone else can't appreciate the little touches in life isn't worth the effort, continues to chuckle but, slows down enough to reply to Coffee Mug and Chitin, "Yeah, I guess so. But, you guys don't get it? I mean, come on! Look, it's a-" she snickers before finishing, "boss fight." and then falls back into side clutching, floor pounding spams of laughter.


Using the same ridiculous logic Carbo just used to assist Heal checks.
Heal: 12 + 1 + 5 (FK Pony-care) + 4 = 22. If that's enough, Coffee Mug's check gets +4. (Well +5 really since he forgot +1 from Instant Party.)
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Post  Xel Unknown Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:26 pm

"Ok... That's actually pretty funny..." Gleeda said as the griffon chuckles lightly at Whisper's joke. "I apologize for that earlier comment..."
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Post  Cardbo Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:37 pm

Coffee pauses a moment from his healing and smack his forehead with his hoof. "Ow. I just got that. That was terrible. That was a joke worthy of me." Coffee conjours his microphone from earlier. "Tonight, the part of Coffee Mug will be played by Whisper."
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Post  SubjectZ Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:15 pm

Nameless tilts his head, perplexed at this strange tide of events. He then roars, in a language none but the nightmares know, at the figure.
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Post  XandZero2 Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:39 am

Big Mike turns to Nameless, mirroring the nightmare's own cocked head, an amused grin creasing his features.

Who said anythin’ about my comin' fer you kid?

– The words go unspoken, echoing instead within the depths of your mind – along with the minds of Whisper, Chitin, Gleeda, Coffee, Buck, and Hard Rock.

Puh-lease. Ya flatter yerself kid, ya flatter yerself. Not hours ago you were little more than a base flamemane. Ya really believe I’d waste my time on the likes a' you now?

Turning his attention towards the group attempting to heal Whisper, the creature with Big Mike face shakes it's head, –But least you know how ta treat a guest kid. I'll give ya that - but I tell ya, the nerve a’ some ponies. I get all dressed up an’ everythin’ – an’ what do they do? Completely ignore me. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Well, let’s see if we can't fix that, shall we?

‘Big Mike’ snaps his fingers.

-And a ring of fire erupts around Whisper. Chitin and Coffee have just enough time to leap away to avoid getting scorched – but on the other hoof, they don’t have enough time to heal their off-white ally either.

Now then, I believe I have your attention now my little ponies – and friends? ‘Big Mike’ glances around for a moment, looking for any objections - then, seeming content, he raises both hands – a green top hat materializing in one while a gold cane materializes in the other. He slips on the top hat, pulling the rim down low while giving you all a toothy grin (which you notice happens to not be a 'toothy' grin at all – as the 'teeth' are actually rows of fangs)...

Let’s get down to business, shall we?

The golden minotaur sweeps off his hat and makes a low bow, I am Mr. B. Rog Esquire – but you can call me Mr. B. Glancing up from his bow, the creature that looks like Big Mike adds, -All my friends do.

-Then he laughs, a loud, disturbing sound that resembles the screams of a thousand lost souls suffering in eternal torment…

After wiping a tear from his eye, Mr. B shakes his head, Hah hah! Friends! I slay me - Like I have any friends…

Shaking his head slowly as he recovers from his laughing fit, Mr. B plants his gold cane in the ground and leans forward, slowly surveying your entire party, his eyes lingering on Hard Rock – peaking over Chitin’s shoulder – and the dome hovering in the distance, holding the other Rocks, along with the unconscious latecomer (the one that Nameless dragged in).

Sooooooooooo – some of you might be wonderin’, Mr. B? Why is a dapper young nightmare such as yourself here in the first place? Well, I’m glad ya asked kid, I’m glad ya asked – for ya see, I’m ‘ere ta make ya a once in a lifetime offa' – an ‘offa’ ya can’t refuse,’ if ya get my drift. I tell ya, you’d have to be a foal to pass up on an opportunity like this one – an’ ta’day only, I’m gonna offer it ta you an’ you alone. As his words echo through your minds, Mr. B gesticulates like a practiced showpony, tapping his cane, motioning to your group, pointing and nodding at every key opportunity. Yes-sir-re Seabiscuit, it’s a real steal of a deal – an’ you can get in on the ground floor, today only...

Mr. B pauses to let all that sink in, then adds, So? Whaddaya say folks? Willin' ta hear me out?
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Post  Ramsus Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:51 am

"What was that? Excuse me. Excuse me! Would you kindly turn these things down?" Whisper says, waving at the flames. While thinking to herself "Did he say B. Rog? That sounds.... familiar. Where have I heard that before?"


Streetwise check on our friendless friend here: 17 + 1 + 16 = 34
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Post  SubjectZ Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:54 am

Nameless roars, stepping into the boundary and standing next to Whisper, saying, still very scratchily, "N-no. You... hurt nopony else today. I... we... stand against you. Why are you here?"
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Post  Cardbo Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:06 am

"Esquire, eh?  You're an attorney?"  Coffee sees the look on Whisper's face.  "Or a member of some knightly order?  Though I must commend your taste in hats." pointing to his own green top hat.  

OOC:Knowedge assist on Whisper's check.
Roll(1d20)+9:
18,+9
Total:27


Last edited by Cardbo on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:48 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post  Xel Unknown Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:17 am

Gleeda already was hating this new character, hell she just hated ANYONE that used "give you an offer you can't refuse" line, and just hearing such a statement made her always wish to just refuse outright with a hailstorm of lighting bolts. But somehow the Griffon Princess held herself back this one time, from how much everyone else seemed to dislike such outbursts from her. And seeing that the rest of the team was doing the talking, Gleeda took to watching out for everybody, backs... Feeling that this might just be a big distraction to attack the party from behind, or worse...

Perception Check:
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Post  Cardbo Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:21 am

"Oh wait.  I think I remembering hearing about you.  You confronted Starswirl the Bearded in the Mines of Maria,  You were cast back into the darkness of the Nightmare realm."  Turning to the rest of the party.  "You guys have all seen the movie, right.  The Lord Of The Horsehoe, right?  True story."
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Post  XandZero2 Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:52 am

Mr. B laughs again, and this time it sounds like a thousand kittens choking on a chalk board.

"You kids er a regula’ laugh riot! Bravo! Bravo!" He grins, slipping his cane under one arm as he gives you all a nice round of applause. "I heard they'd made a movie, but I hadn't been able ta see it yet - what with being banished back to the nightmare realm and all... Hope they got a good actor ta portray me - but anyways...

"-This one – this one right ‘ere,"
Mr. B nods to Whisper in her flaming circle, "Somepony give her an Oscar! She really knows how ta steal a show – I can sense these things, ya know. She’s strong in the dreamscape, that one. Yes sir, yes sir." Mr. B’s clapping slows, then comes to a stop as he adds, "But ya know, little miss? Ya can’t kid a kidder. I know good an’ well ya can hear me over those flames. I’m sendin’ my thoughts directly into yer head! Ya can’t miss ‘em!"

"-But," the nightmare shrugs, "Just ta prove my good intentions – tell ya what I’ma gonna do. He snaps his fingers and the ring of flames vanishes, "I’ma gonna humor ya kid, humor ya. How’s that?" he pauses, "Can ya hear me now? –Good."

He turns to Coffee next and tips his hat to him, "Ah – is that a brother a’ fashion I see, a kindred spirit perhaps? One to me? Although, I must admit, I can’t take all tha credit fer this sporty chapeau. It came with tha form" – Mr. B motions to Big Mike’s face and figure – "but it was quite a steal, I must admit – literally. Heh heh… As fer tha Esq. good sir, I’m impressed that you ask." Mr. B raises one hairy hand and in a burst of flame, a red card materializes at his fingertips. "I just so happen to be a card-carryin’ member a’ tha Faustian Foundation; Bal Rog – Attorney at Infernal Law."

He hands his card to Coffee then turns to Nameless – and bursts out in another fit of laughter (this time it sounds like a symphony orchestra falling down a staircase). After taking a moment to recover his composure, Mr. B shakes his head,  "Yer cute kid an’ ya got moxie too – I’ll give ya that, but fer somepony just fresh from the soul-shop, ya still got a lot ta learn. “We” – oh, that’s rich! Give a nightmare a mind an’ suddenly he thinks he’s not alone! Can ya be-LIEVE SOMEPONIES!"

"But seriously," Mr. B kneels down so that he and Nameless are at eye level, "Let me give ya a some advice son – an’ this one’s free, He points a finger at the nightmare and remains silent for a long time…

Mr. B pauses for another long moment, then rises back up to his full height, "Soooooooooo… about that deal I mentioned?" –and he slips back into his barker voice - "Well, well, well – ladies an’ gentlecolts, foals an’ fillies, Equestrian inhabitants of all ages! –Tonight I have quite tha offer ta make ta you. Now, first off, let me say that I’ve been watchin’ your little band closely ever sense you stepped hoof inta tha lovely land of nightmares. I’ve seen ya fight fer yer lives, save little kiddies, an’ more importantly – eat cake!" Mr. B glances at Whisper, "-I’d like some a’ that cake if ya got any left, by tha way – but I digress! Fer ya see ladies an’ gentlecolts, you put me in a bit of a predicament. Nothin’ personal folks, nothin’ personal ya know – but me an’ mine gotta eat. An’ ya know how we eat? We make ponies scared an’ then feed on their fear - that's what we do. An’ those two dreamers? Rock & Roll? – They’ve got more than enough fear in ‘em ta go ‘round. I mean, enough ta feed tha minis, tha flamemanes, an’ yours truly – not ta mention tha brutes – whichyouhaven’tquitehadthapleasurea’meetin’yetI’mafraid – but I’m sure there’ll be time for introductions later. -Anyways, as I understand it, you also want these two dreamers for yourselves… Am I right? You see, therein lies the problem… We can’t both have what we want… or can we? Yes, that’s right folks – I’m talking about one thing, an' one thing only - a compromise! -Wherein both sides give a little to get a lot more!"

Mr. B pauses, trying to gauge your immediate reactions...

"-Ya follow me so far?"


Last edited by XandZero2 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Cardbo Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:07 am

Coffee takes the offered card and stows it away.

OOC:History check on the ecology of Nitemares. Basically, are they natural and if they disappeared tomorrow, would it upset some sort of food chain or something.
Roll(1d20)+9:
20,+9
Total:29
Woot! Nat 20.
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Post  Ramsus Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:45 am

"Oh, of course. How rude of me not to offer." Whisper replies, to Bal Rog and trots over to cut him a slice of cake while saying, "Do please continue." She then, nimbly and subtly implants something into the slice of cake, trots back over to Bal Rog, and hands him his slice of cake.


1 Use of Unheralded Utensil for auto-pass Mechanics to have a remote operated light bomb.
1 Stealth check to sneak it into the slice of cake without Bal Rog noticing: 19 + 1 + 5 (FK Cooking hah!) = 25.
2 Teaspoons of politeness.
1 Gallon of crazy.
Pre-heat dream to 100 degrees.
Stir Well.
Let sit for one dastardly deal (partaking optional), then serve.
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Post  Cardbo Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:54 am

"What..concerns me is this. There seems to be perhaps more nitemares than normal. In a city gripped with fear. A few years ago, Queen Chrysalis, the Changeling tried to take over Canterlot, a city full of love. I think we all know how that turned out, but even if it had worked, it would've been entirely unsustainable. They would've been back to starving shortly there after. Are you seeing the parallels I'm seeing?"
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Post  SubjectZ Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:25 pm

Nameless looks confused for a moment, then shakes his head and stares back at B. Rog, unflinching, and cold.


Last edited by SubjectZ on Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Dr Blight Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:46 pm

Chitin glances towards Coffee Mug out of the corner of her eyes. Wanting to speak up in regards to her former hive and what a success in Canterlot would have meant but says nothing... out loud.

"Some day you and I will have to sit down and have a long discussion about the efficiency and sustainability of changeling mass love farming methods... But in short: success in Canterlot would have fed the hive for generations."

She sends telepathically to the professor.
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Post  Cardbo Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:36 pm

Dr Blight wrote:Chitin glances towards Coffee Mug out of the corner of her eyes. Wanting to speak up in regards to her former hive and what a success in Canterlot would have meant but says nothing... out loud.

"Some day you and I will have to sit down and have a long discussion about the efficiency and sustainability of changeling mass love farming methods... But in short: success in Canterlot would have fed the hive for generations."

She sends telepathically to the professor.
'Really? Did you have any way to store it for future use? That's frankly the only way I could see it working. If you stored half the population in pods while the other half was mind-controlled. well, the first pony generation to be born after that, you'd have a very hard time convincing to love anypony, at least genuinely. Either the next generation would need to be mind-controlled from the start, in which case genuine love wouldn't form. Or not mind-controlled to bonds of attachment to form, which may not happen given the situation. Also, its possible that ponies may develop a resistance to long term mind-control.'
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Post  Dr Blight Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:41 am

Chitin simply shakes her head before responding telepathically.

"Love is a fairly renewable resource if you tend it right and give the host a chance to recover. And simply using mind-control is more of a last result than anything.

Deception and control leads to far more lasting results. Have somelings act openly like how they would expect us to act so they don't notice the majority of us working quietly behind the scenes. Replacing existing loved ones temporarily or permanently, arranging and manipulating encounters to foster new relationships, encouraging breeding to create more parent-child bonds to feed on as well as future romantic ones and keep the population replenishing.

Others are even easier to cultivate, some ponies just can't separate love and lust, and grief is remarkably easy to exploit. A simple act of having one changeling be overtly cruel and another be kind can easily foster Stockholm syndrome.

The pods are mostly used for transport or to keep unruly hosts safely locked away. And hosts tend to be more resistant at the start, and wear down over time as far as that goes. When you've been stripped of everything else, the love and companionship of those around you is all the stronger. And that's precisely what we want. ...it's a lot like training a dog in a lot of ways really."
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Post  XandZero2 Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:26 am

Mr. B stares back at Nameless with a bored, seemingly disappointed, and perfectly half-lidded expression on his (Mike's) face. "Okay... Now yer jus' startin' to bother me kid..." He makes a shooing motion with one hairy, golden paw, "Do me a favor an' go play out in a street somewhere. I don’t care which one. Take yer pick. Preferably one that sees a lot a' traffic... Tha adults 'ere need ta talk business..."

Turning to Whisper, Mr. B gives her a winning smile (exposing his fangs) and nods in gratitude, taking up the cake in one hand. He looks it over, sniffs it, then sighs dreamily. "Aaaaaaaaaah," he nods to the cake, “You’ll have to excuse me folks. We don't get this kind a’ fare down here all that often, bein’… ya know… tha nature a’ our work…” In saying that last part (and making it sound particularly menacing), Mr. B chuckles – and you have a distinct feeling that somewhere in the world, somepony bucked a puppy.

After a moment though, Mr. B shakes his head a little regretfully, “A real shame, this – but I’ll have ta wait ta try yer cake out until lata' Sunshine. First rule a’ Infernal Law – neva’ eat durin’ a business transaction unless everypony else eats with ya.”

Finally turning his attention back to Coffee Mug, Mr. B taps his chin thoughtfully for a moment, scratches his head, then adds, “Changelins’ eh? Coulda’ sworn those folks were nomads – in which case, when Canterlot was sucked dry, wouldn’t they just’ve picked up an’ moved on ta tha next major populated area - like a circus on a road show?! Fillydelphia, Manehattan, Ponyville…” Mr. B shrugged, seeming to enjoy the thought, spreading out his massive arms as he thought, “Any major town er city would do. They coulda taken tha world by storm – am I right?" Patting himself on the chest, Mr. B adds, "Who’s ta say us nightmares couldn’t do tha same?”

-Then Mr. B laughs his hardest yet – and this time you know that somewhere in the world, a horde of baby pandas just got a terrible case of diarrhea…

After a minute to catch his breath and slap his knees, Mr. B wipes another tear from his eye and shakes his head, “Ahhhhhh… Pardon me fer that one folks, pardon me. Couldn’t resist I’m afraid.”

Taking another moment to recover, Mr. B straightens himself up, puts on a serious face, then pounds a fist against his heart (though you’re uncertain as to whether he has one) while raising his other hand in the air (in a bizarre mockery of a fillyscout). Then, staring straight ahead, he then thinks, “Nightmare’s honor. Me an’ mine would neva’ even think of somethin’ as silly as takin’ ova’ Equestria – and the known world. Honest. Cross my soul and hope to fly…”

-As he says that last bit, a mischievous grin spreads across his lips.


Last edited by XandZero2 on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Ramsus Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:43 am

Whisper shrugs and takes a slice of cake to eat for herself. It was pretty good cake afterall. And probably wasn't fattening at all, this being a dream. Dream cake is the best. Anyway, she ate cake and didn't care if it was a lie or not. When Bal Rog was done, she said, "Fuh, phen, whuffs fa dweal?" with a mouth full of cake. What? I already said before. It was good cake.
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Post  Cardbo Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:02 am

Dr Blight wrote:Chitin simply shakes her head before responding telepathically.

"Love is a fairly renewable resource if you tend it right and give the host a chance to recover. And simply using mind-control is more of a last result than anything.

Deception and control leads to far more lasting results. Have somelings act openly like how they would expect us to act so they don't notice the majority of us working quietly behind the scenes. Replacing existing loved ones temporarily or permanently, arranging and manipulating encounters to foster new relationships, encouraging breeding to create more parent-child bonds to feed on as well as future romantic ones and keep the population replenishing.

Others are even easier to cultivate, some ponies just can't separate love and lust, and grief is remarkably easy to exploit. A simple act of having one changeling be overtly cruel and another be kind can easily foster Stockholm syndrome.

The pods are mostly used for transport or to keep unruly hosts safely locked away. And hosts tend to be more resistant at the start, and wear down over time as far as that goes. When you've been stripped of everything else, the love and companionship of those around you is all the stronger. And that's precisely what we want. ...it's a lot like training a dog in a lot of ways really."
'Of course.  However, it seems to me that all Queen Chrysalis' actions would do would foster paranoia, not love.  If they were actually trying to foster love behind the scenes, well and good, but her actions and invasion, just really set Changelings, back.

XandZero2 wrote:
Finally turning his attention back to Coffee Mug, Mr. B taps his chin thoughtfully for a moment, scratches his head, then adds, “Changelins’ eh? Coulda’ sworn those folks were nomads – in which case, when Canterlot was sucked dry, wouldn’t they just’ve picked up an’ moved on ta tha next major populated area - like a circus on a road show?! Fillydelphia, Manehattan, Ponyville…” Mr. B shrugged, seeming to enjoy the thought, spreading out his massive arms as he thought, “Any major town er city would do. They coulda taken tha world by storm – am I right?" Patting himself on the chest, Mr. B adds, "Who’s ta say us nightmares couldn’t do tha same?”

-Then Mr. B laughs his hardest yet – and this time you know that somewhere in the world, a horde of baby pandas just got a terrible case of diarrhea…

After a minute to catch his breath and slap his knees, Mr. B wipes another tear from his eye and shakes his head, “Ahhhhhh… Pardon me fer that one folks, pardon me. Couldn’t resist I’m afraid.”

Taking another moment to recover, Mr. B straightens himself up, puts on a serious face, then pounds a fist against his heart (though you’re uncertain as to whether he has one) while raising his other hand in the air (in a bizarre mockery of a fillyscout). Then, staring straight ahead, he then thinks, “Nightmare’s honor. Me an’ mine would neva’ even think of somethin’ as silly as takin’ ova’ Equestria – and the known world. Honest. Cross my soul and hope to fly…”[/i]

-As he says that last bit, a mischievous grin spreads across his lips.
Coffee mentally switches gears. "You're still not getting what I'm saying, so I'll be plain.  Normally, Nitemares provide a valuable service to ponies.  being able to comfront their fears in a safe environment, dreams.  Of course, Nitemares get something out of this as well, that is delicious fear to nom on.  However, this!"  and Coffee gestures to the writhing sea of Nitemares, "is not natural, and has gone beyond a symbiotic relationship into a parasitical one.  You kill the host and you die as well.  So if your deal doesn't include backing off from these two ponies fears, I'm really not interested in hearing it."
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Post  XandZero2 Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:50 pm

“Woah there!” Mr. B holds up the hand with Whisper’s cake in it, shaking it and his (Mike’s) head simultaneously at Coffee in what looks suspiciously like the worst display of insincere shock you’ve ever seen in your lives, “Now hold on jus’ one moment my good mane, jus’ one moment. I can assure ya, you got yer facts a tad mixed up there.” -Surprisingly enough, you actually believe that last statement is true, though Mr. B’s next statement does make you suspicious. “No one will be harmed in the makin’ a’ this little business transaction of ours, folks – No one at all.

The nightmare lawyer tips his hat down low over his golden brow, growing more serious, “-An’ as such, I simply can’t let you have both Rock AND Roll. Wouldn’t be much of a compromise if ya got everythin’ ya wanted when I got nothin,’ now would it?” Mr. B shakes his (Mike’s) golden head, “No sir-re Nightmare Rar-i-ty – but ere’s what I can do!” – And the nightmare springs forward excitedly, going back into barker mode as he addresses all of you at once, “Step right up, step right up folks an’ let me introduce ya ta tha deal a’ tha century! It’s a real steal of a deal, a real steal of a deal I tell ya - an’ as I was saying folks, I’ve been keepin’ a close eye on ya ever since you stepped hoof in this lovely little realm a’ ours! I noticed ya made quite tha connection with that little one there.” Mr. B picks up his cane and points it at Hard Rock - who promptly gasps and ducks back behind Chitin’s wing.

Mr. B chuckles – a sound that would make celestial’s weep (in pain, if they could hear it). Still grinning, he raises an eyebrow as he thinks, “Ain’t he cute folks? Ain’t he cute? Couldn’t ya jus’ eat him up? – I know I could! ALL THAT DELICIOUS FEAR! Mmmm... Makes my mouth water jus' thinkin' about it! Mr. B lets out a long, monstrous laugh that makes you want to scream (Rock actually does scream).

Pausing for a moment, Mr. B takes a deep breath, “Pardon me folks, pardon me – but I couldn’t help but get tha feelin’ you’ve grown somewhat… attached… to the little guy there… Sooooooooo - ‘ere’s what I’ma gonna do – tha long awaited offer! Jus’ ta prove I’m not a completely soulless monster, I’ll let ya keep ‘im. Yes sir-re folks, you heard right. Right here, right now, I’ll let ya keep tha little Hard Rock – an’ for an added bonus, I’ll throw in all his counter-parts as well – that’s right folks, that’s right! Rock’s two through seven – all yours – free a’ charge; a regular mineralogist’s dream! Not only that, but get this, we’ll even let you – yes you – leave in peace; ‘cause that’s jus’ tha type a nightmare I am. No muss, no fuss – you won’t even have ta get your hooves dirty with more nightmare goo – an’ we won’t have ta throw out tha big guns an’ get ugly.”

Making as if to clear his throat while glancing away innocently (which is more awkward considering who he is), Mr. B adds – somewhat more quietly, “A’ course… we’ll keep Roll with… us… –and the nightmare instantly spins back around – “But what’s it ta you, eh? You’ll ‘ave saved the day for the little kiddies! You’ll be heroes!” Mr. B shrugged, “ –So what if Roll takes a little longer ta wake up? He’ll be fiiiiiine – I promise! Besiiiiiides, you haven’t even gotten a chance ta know tha girl… er… guy! Not like you’ll miss ‘im or anythin’, am I right?”
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Post  Ramsus Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:15 pm

Whisper mused aloud, "Is fear more delicious than cake? I mean my cake of course. Not just any ol' store bought cake. I'm sure it's not nutricious of course but, I'm just wondering. Cuz like.. well. If we take Biscuits here with us, I'm going to need to know if he'll enjoy my cooking." indicated Nameless when she said Biscuits.


Edit: Persuasion: 9 + 1 + FK (Cooking, hah, twice in a row!) + 15 = 30
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