Re: Zilean's Revenge (Part 3)

Zarhon Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:01 pm

Bronymous wrote:"Ask her how good she is at cleaning up blood and disposing of corpses."

"Ah, zat kind of mess. Do you have any cleaning or caustic solutions? Zere is only so much dusting can achieve."

Azarune wrote:"Whom do we have the honor of summoning?"

"You are ze first to ask. Call me Zéphyrine."

No objections/alternate preferences for the name, I hope? Can still edit it...

A1C Bronymous Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:02 pm

"He said, and then we don't leave yet anyway..." Horizon remains face down, grumbling "stupid... stab your dumb face..."

Ramsus Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:08 pm

"We should probably leave tasks around here until later. We should be on our way no? Just come along with us Zéphyrine. I'm sure we'll find some way to put you to use." Skitter says.

Broken Logic Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:17 pm

"Howdy-do, Zefi. 'Name's Jeraylia. I look forward to working with an esteemed elemental such as yourself." She directed her gaze towards Horizon. "You looked through the barred back-room, right? Did you discover the disguised doorway Dami divulged earlier?"

Azarune Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:21 pm

"Zéphyrine, a pleasure to meet you." Starting to head out through the entrance Zthulan stops and turns around. "We are just going to use the entrance we used to leave right?"

A1C Bronymous Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:44 pm

"Yes, I did, and no, we aren't. We leaving now?" Horizon stands up and walks through the previously explored door. "We're supposed to go this way to avoid dealing with the gate guards every time we come in and out. It's up here, and its more hidden from this side than the outside. Also, it's the same ring wall thing again, and also, there are two more suits of armor. So lets try not to wake them up." He leads everyone to the dead end and activates the secret switch. "And speaking of gate guards, what are we doing about getting out gear back from them?"

Broken Logic Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:31 am

Jeraylia reaches out and grabs Horizon's wrist before he presses the switch. "Here's an idea? Since we're supposed to leave discreetly, maybe Zéphyrine here could mist out and take a quick peak. Think you can slip through the cracks, Zefi? Keep it on the down low while your at it, kay?"

Getting a feel of what we're allowed to do with her. She's coming with, right? Also edited previous post to actually (if really quickly) tell her my name XD.

Ramsus Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:49 am

Well, I knew I was gonna have to alter my combat build somewhat but, with the surprise change to Blood Skeleton, it looks like I'm going to have to completely re-make Skitter's build again. Hope we weren't going to have another combat too soon.

Edit: Zarhon can I use thematthew's version of the Blood Weapon?

Spoiler:

Also, can I use this version of Meditate? (I'll point out that Kinduls said the current version doesn't really work.)

Spoiler:

Broken Logic Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:22 am

Bugger all, they keep nerfing me! PiP costs are rising faster than oil. Well, it's not something that would have happened soon, but lightning reflexes is now once per round means there goes my tanking idea:

Defend:

I was thinking I could possibly eventually chain Defend and Redirect, as they have different triggers (someone else gets hit triggers defend -> I get hit triggers redirect). So I could save someone for 4 pips (3 before redirect got nerfed, which would have been awesome).

Teach me to go look at the errata. Then again, maybe I should look for any boosts I missed.

A1C Bronymous Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:57 am

Join the club. And spoiler alert, there are no boosts. Nothing has or ever will get buffed, not while they use their superstitious voodoo to declare most things overpowered.

Edit: I have another character that uses a similar tank strategy as yours. Protip, ignore misdirection, and just go with the -2 damage nulling/reducing talents instead. At 4 pips, misdirect is just another waste of space now.

Ramsus Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:03 am

That's a complete lie. Plenty of things have gotten boosts, you only focus on the negative.

A1C Bronymous Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:27 am

That was hyperbole, I know things are getting boosted. Its just that those are things I never use, and all of my stuff keeps getting nerfed, so it doesn't seem like it.

Zarhon Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:40 am

@ Ramsus: Which talents would you be replacing with meditate/blood weapon? I'll have to say no to the altered blood weapon - stick with the handbook version. Meditate looks kinda iffy, but I'll allow it.

Update your stuff to the errata please, and post whatever other changes you made / want to make to your combat stuff.

Ramsus Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:50 am

thematthew proved that the official version of the Blood Weapon is actually inferior to talents you could take that it replicates. So there's no way I'm taking that.

I don't think you quite understand, these changes require me to make an entirely new build. I'll just make a post when I'm done as I'll just be changing stuff in the character sheet.

Lyntermas Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:44 pm

"I think that Damiana's agents will have gotten the confiscated items we need before we head off in to certain danger," Rolf said to Horizon as they made their way to the exit leading outside. "Zéphyrine, while...dead bodies are somewhat a part of this, there may be a bit more to our job tonight than simply "cleaning". Essentially, the city is under attack by a lich named Zilean and his band of cultists, and we are severely understaffed. We may be asking you to do scouting work, be an extra hand...and that telepathy of yours might be useful for silent communication between us. Also, um, not be rude, but...how are you with lifting things?" he asked, looking at the elemental's vaporous form.

Zarhon Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:27 pm

Broken Logic wrote:Jeraylia reaches out and grabs Horizon's wrist before he presses the switch. "Here's an idea? Since we're supposed to leave discreetly, maybe Zéphyrine here could mist out and take a quick peak. Think you can slip through the cracks, Zefi? Keep it on the down low while your at it, kay?"

"Well, yes, and no. I could go into little holes, but zen I'd have trouble reforming wizout help, and be of little assistance until I do."

Lyntermas wrote:"Essentially, the city is under attack by a lich named Zilean and his band of cultists, and we are severely understaffed."

"Again? Zat is a big mess, indeed. You are destined, selfless heroes, no?"

Lyntermas wrote:"Also, um, not be rude, but...how are you with lifting things?" he asked, looking at the elemental's vaporous form."

Athletics:

"Maybe a demonstration would help?", she responds, lifting both "hands" in front of her, pointing towards the party. Everyone suddenly feels a gust of wind blowing around them, and a feeling of weightlessness engulfs them as they are all slowly lifted upwards off the floor by a torrent of wind, about halfway the height of the room, then gently brought down again. She then repeats this by lifting the large cupboard, "dusting" under it by blowing away and gathering it with wind, then bringing it back down again, sending the dust into a small cloth. "Is zat sufficient, messieurs and madam?"

A1C Bronymous Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:35 pm

Zarhon wrote:
Athletics:

Except you totally just did?

"We don't need to worry about the other suits. I opened the wall and checked out the next room last night, they didn't even care. Just as long as someone doesn't try to open the wall wrong again, we should be good."

Btw, that still doesn't show how she interacts with stains and messes to clean them.

Zarhon Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:15 pm

Just a heads up Ramsus, meditate got errata'd / fixed, so that other version of it is a bit redundant now.

Ramsus Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:40 pm

Actually, he just errata'd it to wording it was supposed to have had for quite a while now. Last I checked they still weren't pleased with how it's currently balanced and Kindulas' response to my suggestion wasn't about balance but, about thematic effect. If you don't want to let me take it though, that's your call. Just kinda need you to be clear here before I work on the build. (Kinda annoyed though if you are since I'd already put in a bit of time figuring some stuff out around it and you'd oked it already but, it's your call.)

Zarhon Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:36 pm

Well I allowed the altered version mostly because I agreed with the notion that the old version of meditate was kinda wasteful with its "next two turns" aspect. Now that the handbook one is fixed into letting you "delay" or "savor" the granted damage, it seems decent enough for use and combos, even as a standard (2d12 for 2 pips is a decent deal, and minor attacks can trigger it, among other things).

Plus, I don't see much logic in a "meditate" being usable as a minor, as far as flavor goes. Same mentality as to why "perfect focus" isn't a minor - it takes "more time".

Stick to the handbook version for now. If the altered version is balanced/fitting as you say, it will probably be changed (or added, if you suggest it in that "add new stuff" thread) before we go into combat anyway.

A1C Bronymous Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:43 pm

He did put it in the add new stuff thread. And you guys should post whatever the approved, correct, whatever is right version is for me, because I may suddenly need to start using it again.

Ramsus Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:04 am

*sighs* Yeah Zarhon, just because they might fix it later doesn't help me when I have to re-make my build now. As for flavor would it help if I called it "Focus" or "Pants" or "The Minor Action that makes certain attacks better for 3 pips?" It doesn't matter what the talent name is so long as the name is unique. Meditation wasn't going to be the flavor of my moves anyway. The key issue with the standard actions version is that it's actually just not really worth doing and doesn't fit into combos particularly well.

Well, now that I have to start all over again, I think I'm going to postpone this till tomorrow at the earliest since having to do the same task repeatedly like this seems a lot more like work than it does like play. Also being told I can have something I made myself and having it yanked away the moment I try sorta kills my enthusiasm for the task.

Ramsus Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:39 am

Kindulas wrote:
Ramsus wrote:Kindulas, iirc you and others were still unhappy with the balance of the current Meditate no? Your response to my suggestion didn't sound like you objected on account of balance. Would you find it more palatable if it simply had a different name? Like... I dunno.... Focus?

If it is a balance issue, I would still like there to be something similar. So, if that's the issue, how much bonus damage would you find acceptable for that same mechanic?
It's true, it's not so much a balance issue, that as a minor would be something different. A -3 minor to add 1d12 to your next single target would be appropriate, since 3 pips is worth 6.5 damage (is worth a standard action)

So.... Zarhon, could I take this?

[-3] Focus - Minor Utility
Your next attack that has two or fewer targets deals +1d12 damage.

Zarhon Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:07 am

Yep, that looks okay. Although, keep in mind that the current handbook Meditate might be changed as well, possibly better.

I'm also allowing you all to use the expansion pack that's coming (point of interest: "Meditate" to "Heartseeker"). Keep in mind, the stuff on that doc is new / not actually out yet, and might change or be rebalanced who-knows-when, so I'll probably ask they be kept up to date accordingly.

A1C Bronymous Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Heartseeker is dumb though. Furious Rage is still better.

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