MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Ok, the description of the show? It makes it sound interesting. It makes it out to be a bit more mature than MLP, which with all of it's parental bonuses and, if the fanbase is any indication, is already relatively mature. It sounds interesting, even if the designs are a bit wierd.

Edit: Three major issues with the thing which make me think it's a hoax. The colors of the characters, the fact the outfits are quite reminicent of the Gala dresses, and the fact that 3 (4 including Trixie) of them are in the same exact pose.

If you really want to post spoilers and want to mark that they are spoilers to warn us about them, then why aren't you using the spoiler button?

Like, this sounds like I'm berating you but mostly I'm confused.

Mostly because this thread is for spoilers, and there might be people who only talk about episodes after who might not want to see spoilers for future episodes. I'm going to spoiler it now.

So, "Magical Mystery Cure"....most songs ever!

So, if writing new magic is this big deal, does that mean Starswirl was also an alicorn? I mean, he wrote more spells than Twilight has, I'm guessing. And exactly what does the spell DO? The "original" spell messed up the destinies of the Mane Six, so is the new spell supposed to use the Elements to "enhance" one's destiny?

Also, frostbite on sunburns sounds painful.

The guy I feel sorry for? Shining Armor. I mean, the guy is constantly upstaged by his little sister. Captain of the Guard? She finds the real Princess and saves the kingdom from Changelings. Ruler of the Crystal Empire? Her pet dragon gets a stained-glass window showing him defeating King Sombra. Married to a Princess? She IS a Princess.

Which also brings into question exactly how much authority Twilight now has. But I've rambled on long enough. Pretty good episode, but this was more a "transition" thing than anything else.

Magical Mystery Cure aka The End of Everything We Ever Loved, aka The Two Parter That Wasn't, aka WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!

Seriously, what happened in that episode? The entire exposition, rising, climax, and resolution took place in the span of 5 minutes. The rest was songs. I know they were going for a theme ("Musical Mystery Tour", if you didn't get the pun) but come on. Suddenly, everything's crazy! But then! Fixd, and now Alicorn. There were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many plot holes. Did the rest of the town understand that stuff was wrong? They seemed to at the end, when they all shouted "PINKIE", as if they had been waiting on her to show up. But then why did no one say anything until then? Also, while Pinkamena single-handedly decimated Sweet Apple Acres in one day, where were the rest of the Apples? Were they affected by this so called destiny spell too? They showed up during the fix everything song. Also, I like how just as Pinkie killed everything in a day, so too did AJ come back and regrow and fix everything.

Then there was the other stuff. They went super hard on the continuity, almost to the point that it seemed like a SERIES finale, instead of just the season. Everything came back at the end, and apparently, things like NMM, Discord, the Changelings, and everything else that happened, were all just framing for the friendship thing, instead of the driving forces. In fact, the way the whole episode was set up, it made me extra paranoid that it was going to end on a cliffhanger. But it didn't. Twilight is an Alicorn, and the last line of the episode may have come from Hasbro themselves: "Everything is going to be fine".

Ok, enough of the negative ranting. More neutral, detail oriented things.

So Starswirl the Bearded wrote a spell, but he never got it to work. Twilight's first instinct is to try it, and then she's disappointed when (she assumes) it doesn't work?
The songs were about regular show quality. Apparently they were trying to break their record, but in doing so, they didn't come up with a memorable, really good one. Do any of you remember any of the lyrics?
Yeah, episode callbacks at the end, but also smaller continuity. Cherry Berry does in fact own that balloon, the Quills and Sofas shop is still in business.
Celestia sang. That was neat. No Luna though. And the CMCs were disappointingly absent during the whole thing.
One funny part was when the Elements reacted and Vaporized Twilight on the spot.

I don't know, there really wasn't much "Background detail" to point out. The songs ate up the whole episode, and most of those were choreographed.

So, Season 3 is over in half the time, ending on a highly controversial note. No questions about the future were answered, so now we sit and wait. Season 4, A Movie, Equestria Girls.


Oh, and Lynt, Starswirl wrote many spells, but Twilight created new Magic. Difference.

The guy I feel sorry for? Shining Armor. I mean, the guy is constantly upstaged by his little sister. Captain of the Guard? She finds the real Princess and saves the kingdom from Changelings. Ruler of the Crystal Empire? Her pet dragon gets a stained-glass window showing him defeating King Sombra. Married to a Princess? She IS a Princess.

Actually, he was the one that saved the kingdom from the changelings (with Cadence love-powers) and did the mighty WIFE TOSS to save the Crystal Empire. He also presumably gets to coach/run the pony olympics now. I think he's just being really humble.

Also things gleamed from this episode:

1 ) How on earth did Pinkie live on a rock farm and not be capable of doing AJ's chores?

2 ) I honestly laughed when it seemed like the mane six vaporized/disintegrated Twilight with the spell.

3 ) Fluttershy's animals are freaking carnivores/a few meals away devouring ponyville.

4 ) Wasn't Starswirl's book... well, a book, rather than a notebook (with binder)?

5 ) The ponies suck at each other's respective jobs.

6 ) Weathercrafting talents/non pegasi requirement confirmed as canon!

7 ) Frilly dresses for everypony! Celestia gets a silly crown, Luna gets something that was obviously made during Nightmare Night in that deleted scene bit with Rarity... Obviously for merchandise all, but still...

8 ) Music! Music for everyone! I was most impressed by Celestia's singing in particular: A bit jarring to hear her actually sing.

9 ) No sighting of Derpy (I might be mistaken, of course). All the sads. So many Derpy sightings! All the yay!

Bronymous wrote:Do any of you remember any of the lyrics?

~A true, true friend helps a friend in need~

~'Cause that's what my Cutie Mark is tellin' me!~

~And everything is going to be fiiiiiine!~

As to the plotline being confusing...I don't see it? Twilight used an incomplete spell, it switched her friends' perceptions of their destinies around, Twilight reminded her friends who they were, realized what the complete spell was and went an Alicorn.

And during the process things were pretty okay. I used to see Pinkie get dumped on a lot as "useless" and "annoying" and "chilidish", and then I stopped talking about ponies on that website, so maybe now with some more concrete evidence people will be able to see that her partypony personality is actually really really important to making sure ponies are happy.

The songs themselves, though nothing enormously special, did their jobs of providing exposition about what was going on. Celestia's song was best of the episode, plus it confirms that Celestia has intellectus (low-level omniscience, must "ask the right questions" but will automatically know the answers) through use of viewscreen magically set up throughout Equestria. Or maybe that was a one-time thing, but if it wasn't it explains a lot. Listened for the song Mandopony was apparently hired to write for the season finale, thought I heard it, but credits said David Ingram and M. Larson wrote it so what's up?

The song at the end about how "everything is going to be fine" was especially hilarious considering some of the ways in which people have been overreacting to Alicorn Twilight and thinking everything good and precious about MLP was about to come to an end. It almost makes one think the showmakers anticipated the reaction they got...

EDIT: Oh, and also it would've been awesome if every part of this episode was exactly the same, but then right at the end after Twilight said "Everything is going to be fine" it showed a green eye slowly opening on the black with a sickening scraping of the piano keys, and then a fanged white smile showed up as Sombra's laugh echoed throughout the true fadeout. Yeah, that would've been cool.

I don't know guys, I enjoyed the episode. Granted, I didn't really understand the whole outrage with Alicorn Twilight in the first place.
I also passively watched the show intended for children without scrutinizing the plot line.

Wouldn't surprise me. They leaked Cadence too. The idea was -probably- to help some of the 'they changed it, it sucks now!' mindset fade out. That said...

I think I'm with about half the people when the elements apparently switched from stun to kill on Twilight, though. That was great, especially the reactions.

...I'm also confused as to what that starry area was...Deep space? Can ponies breathe in space now? Some kind of dream-realm? Limbo? (Did the elements actually disintegrate her? )

BTW, for those disappointed Derpy wasn't in this episode...





Apparently you weren't looking hard enough.

Spoiler:

DOUB<LE PO>ST BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT

WAIT A SECOND

DESTINIES SWITCHING AROUND

BUNCH OF TALK ABOUT DESTINIES

HOLY FRICK TWILIGHT'S PLAYING AN ASCENDENT AND SHE JUST REACHED LEVEL TEN

Spoiler:

You know, I thought about that when I first saw Twilicorn, but I forgot about it?

...You're right.

Ascendant destiny confirmed canon. WANT MORE THAN EVER NOW.

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:
As to the plotline being confusing...I don't see it? Twilight used an incomplete spell, it switched her friends' perceptions of their destinies around, Twilight reminded her friends who they were, realized what the complete spell was and went an Alicorn.

It wasn't confusing, it was supercondensed. I got what was happening, but it all ran together extremely quickly, to make room for songs. If they had made it a two parter, it could have run a few minutes of exposition (instead of 10 seconds), she could have spent the whole episode at least pretending to not know what to do immediately, then next episode, she finally figures it out and Wings up. Or, cut some of the songs, and expand the content some, if one episode is mandatory.

Bronymous wrote: Oh, and Lynt, Starswirl wrote many spells, but Twilight created new Magic. Difference.

Oh, like creating a new FIELD of Magic (Transmutation, Conjuration, and now Friendship). That makes more sense.

I've been steadfastly avoiding this thread due to spoilers (not that they don't tend to leak past the censors on EQD anyway), but now that the season's over, I feel the need to talk about the finale.

My feelings regarding the final episode can be summed up in this one emoticon: :/

As I've seen other people express in various places, this episode gave rise to a whirlwind of different emotions, and I just don't know which one should be dominant. Lots of songs, decent ones, too, but as others have said, none of them seem to particularly stand out. I remember Celestia singing, which was neat, but don't actually remember the song itself. All the tension was resolved fairly early in the episode, and I kept waiting for something else to happen, but it never did. I expected a cliffhanger or something, but then the episode just ended. On the plus side, Derpy is back, in all her googly-eyed glory. Who's to say if she'll stay for season 4, though?

My biggest issue, as with most, is one of lore. What, exactly, IS an alicorn? Are they all princesses? Are there any male alicorns? Are there any natural alicorns, or are they all regular ponies (unicorns, specifically?) that turn into alicorns? I'm a big fan of world building, so I like to expand upon the canon. I'm actually wanting to create a long running webcomic based on MLP (not to mention plenty of fanfic ideas bouncing around in my head) and have already done a lot of speculation on expanded canon, including things like sleipnir, hippogryphs, cervids, qilin, draconequi, etc., so this is somewhat relevant to me. The nice thing about keeping it vague is that people could do with it whatever they wanted. I prefer to think alicorns are regular ponies that just happen to be rarer than other types, and that Celestia and Luna are special, the exception rather than the rule. A lot of people prefer to think all alicorns are gods. It's not necessarily that I mind Twilight being an alicorn (although suddenly changing from a unicorn to an alicorn does jog the lore somewhat, as now all future fanfics with unicorn!Twilight are suddenly rendered incorrect. I know the canon was always flexible, but was it too much to assume that unicorns would stay unicorns?), it just seems to cheapen them when anypony can apparently become one. If it happens, it should be a huge deal, and should not come easy, and while they seemed to think it was a pretty big deal in the episode, I didn't see any sort of tension on that subject.

/rant

I've actually toyed with the idea of non-alicorns becoming alicorns, myself. I actually have two separate headcanons, one in which Celestia and Luna were always alicorns, and one where they were normal ponies who became alicorns. Which one I would use would depend on the fanwork I was making. I suppose what was somewhat upsetting about this episode was that I always had the choice before, but now it's been set in stone that non-alicorns can become alicorns, whether you like it or not. Though, they never really explained how or why Twilight became an alicorn, so I suppose it's always possible it was a one time thing.

All that said, "Everything is going to be just fine!" I'd certainly like to believe that, and I'd believe that line was included just for bronies so we wouldn't get our jimmies rustled too badly. According to Megan McCarthy, Magical Mystery Cure is sort of part 1 of 3, so I guess we'll really have to wait for the season 4 opener to see where this goes. I have a sinking feeling that we might have to start labeling fan works according to pre-S3 finale canon and post-S3 finale canon (for acorn Twi, if nothing else), but maybe they'll be able to pull it all together in a way that makes everyone happy.

I have a feeling that as we allow these feelings to settle, we'll be okay with this. We might not like every aspect of the season finale, but it was never the world ender it was made out to be by the doomsayers. I still can't decide if this was a good episode or not, though.

I know this isn't what Faust had planned, and I'm more than a little curious as to what she was going to do with the story, and more than a little sad that now we'll probably never know. Posting her original plans now, though, would only undermine the current FiM team and divide the fandom, and she knows that, so it's probably for the best that it stay secret.

As far as this episode went, it felt to me like the writers were pretty much saying, "Okay, so long as we have to do this, then let's get it over with as soon as possible." It wasn't a bad story. It wasn't a good story, either. In fact, it was hardly a story at all. Heck, we didn't even get the slightest insight into alicorns, beyond that they can be made.

But in a way, I'm sort of glad - considering the time and story restrictions that the writers were facing, it's probably better (in this singular instance) to not try very hard and end up with a somewhat pleasant, but easily forgettable "fluff" episode than to try too hard and fall depressingly short of the quality-goal anyway. In the words of Fozzie Bear, "Eh, kinda makes me feel better, actually. We were nowhere close at all!"

Zarhon wrote:1 ) How on earth did Pinkie live on a rock farm and not be capable of doing AJ's chores?

Rock farming and dealing with genuine, living crops probably require entirely different skill sets.

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:HOLY FRICK TWILIGHT'S PLAYING AN ASCENDENT AND SHE JUST REACHED LEVEL TEN

Caden2112 wrote:Ascendant destiny confirmed canon. WANT MORE THAN EVER NOW.

I'll probably have to get back to refining that destiny real soon - as it stands, it's nowhere near as good as the official ones, but maybe the increased interest can bring in suggestions on how to improve it. Of course, I do have a few ideas of my own, too...

"...You've displayed the Charity, Compassion, Devotion, Integrity, Optimism, and of course, the Leadership..."

Well, we have the names of the Element Upgrades now. I want a draft of them on my desk by the end of the week...

Cutie Mark seems to do more than just show your destiny, they define about half of a pony's characteristics, and obviously changing them around has some minor space-time alteration so no one notices that they have swapped, but the world doesn't change from what it would be had they always had the talent. Better take more care of them in the future...

Also, the place where Twilight and Celestia talk will forever be named The Destiny Room and I will use it whenever possible*...

* The Destiny Room will not be used whenever possible...

Paper Shadow wrote:...some minor space-time alteration so no one notices that they have swapped...

Then how did Twilight know, and why did the other ponies in town perk up as soon as Pinkie returned?

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:

Paper Shadow wrote:...some minor space-time alteration so no one notices that they have swapped...

Then how did Twilight know, and why did the other ponies in town perk up as soon as Pinkie returned?

Simple. Caster Immunity (see Want It, Need It spell), and if you watch the scene again, the other ponies didn't perk up until Pinkie underwent the whole life-flashes-before-eyes moment...

Paper Shadow wrote:

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:

Paper Shadow wrote:...some minor space-time alteration so no one notices that they have swapped...

Then how did Twilight know, and why did the other ponies in town perk up as soon as Pinkie returned?

Simple. Caster Immunity (see Want It, Need It spell), and if you watch the scene again, the other ponies didn't perk up until Pinkie underwent the whole life-flashes-before-eyes moment...

Okay, then, presuming these things are true, how did Spike notice?

Spike wasn't concious when Twilight cast the spell?

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:

Paper Shadow wrote:

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:

Paper Shadow wrote:...some minor space-time alteration so no one notices that they have swapped...

Then how did Twilight know, and why did the other ponies in town perk up as soon as Pinkie returned?

Simple. Caster Immunity (see Want It, Need It spell), and if you watch the scene again, the other ponies didn't perk up until Pinkie underwent the whole life-flashes-before-eyes moment...

Okay, then, presuming these things are true, how did Spike notice?

That's a toughie. There's no hard evidence to explain that, but if I were to throw this handful of daggers into the dark, here's my thoughts:

• Spike didn't notice, Twilight Sparkle told him. As they head to the cottage, Twilight Sparkle has to tell Spike that the weather wasn't the problem, but the fact that Rarity has Rainbow's Cutie Mark, and that they were heading to Rainbow's cottage...
  
• Spike is a dragon, so maybe only ponies notice and are affected by Cutie Marks. The animals don't treat Rainbow differently just because she has Fluttershy's Cutie Mark, so maybe Cutie Marks, and their apparent swapping, is something that only affects ponies. That's why Spike suggests the Cutie Pox cure, because he has no knowledge about Cutie Marks...
  
• Spike was taking a seven hour bubble bath at the time. Poison Joke was cured with a bath. Maybe nice hot baths is a counter to magic...

Alternatively, plot hole!

OR POSSIBLY

The only people whose memories were affected were the people who got their Cutie Mark switched?

Like, I'm not sure why we're assuming otherwise just because no one who wasn't a main character specifically mentioned "huh, these ponies sure are acting weird today".

Have you seen what they get up to normally? Other than Pinkie going flat-haired, they probably just all assumed the Mane 6 had gotten an extra dose of crazy or were switching jobs for the day on a dare or something.

Plus, they were probably busy trying to find something to treat sunburns, frostbites, and pneumonia from torrential raining thanks to Rarity.