Re: Official Errata Suggestion/Discussion Thread (changes you'd like to see made)

[Fury of the Tempest]

I would suggest my version, but it seems the sent-box doesn't like to save so far back...

So unless Kind can find it in his inbox, I've lost it.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

The idea of making the weaken-attack an interrupt is really cool. A defensive punishing... Clever.

[Philadelphus]

I was reading the racial trait Crystalline today and noticed it doesn't list a duration for the time you're allowed to hide as a rock. I thought this could potentially cause arguments, so I'd suggest adding a time limit to the amount of time you can use the effect (I don't know what would be appropriate for a 1/Day ability).

Crystalline:

[SparkImpulse]

I was reading the racial trait Crystalline today and noticed it doesn't list a duration for the time you're allowed to hide as a rock.

Personally, if you're in hibernation and also a type of rock, I'd say that so long as you don't try to move, you haven't cancelled the effect. We've heard in-canon that a dragon's nap can be a hundred years ... why not a crystal pony's nap?

Although, if they're maintaining perception, that's not really a nap ... so they'd need to fully wake up periodically, eat, sleep properly, then go back into hiding. Although again if it were me, I'd allow the sleeping for health to occur during the hiding/hibernation but of course if the DM decides key events transpire while the crystal pony is asleep ... that's a pretty heavy perception penalty ... both hibernating as a rock, and asleep to boot.

[Xel Unknown]

I've just noticed something... There's a +1 move that outclasses Harrowing to INSANE levels... Note this isn't a reason to nerf anything... But more reason to get to buffing Harrowing in my opinion.

[-2] Harrowing - Standard Utility
Target creature suffers a -4 penalty to its next saving throw.

[+1] Rootbind - Standard Attack
Target creature suffers a -3 penalty to saving throws and a -2 penalty to damage until the end of Its next turn.

The only things that Harrowing has over Rootbind is being an Utility and having -4... But Rootbind's being a +1 and deals a -2 damage penalty just does outclass those two minor things and allows a lot more options to deal with.

I'd put this as more reason to allow the minor action and penalty stacking effect to some degree when used with Harrowing... I mean it's a -engery/pip move allowing this ONE thing to have a stack power to a minor degree isn't going to really come into play othter then for the most powerful of players... (Maybe adding a note how Harrowing can only stack once, that'd be fair in my mind, but really think giving it a stacking power, would make it an appealing move for save ends builds to be factored in... Also would be useful for those who'd deal with self-save ends effects as well...)

[Fury of the Tempest]

Want to suggest a version of that (don't know if anyone has before)? There's a thousand other higher priority things on our plates right now and we just don't have time to look at Granite right now. =(

I would suggest my version, but it seems the sent-box doesn't like to save so far back...

So unless Kind can find it in his inbox, I've lost it.

Thanks to Kind, here it is! Also, I'll suggest my HB remake... its a bit crazy admittedly, but I think some of the concepts are good.

Granite Axe:

Hurricane Blade:

[Xel Unknown]

Personally bigger fan of Zammel's suggestion.

[Fury of the Tempest]

... That's because it doesn't have any changes, at all.

Besides, unless its their focus, interruptions and reactions don't really belong on a conjured weapon, and the Granite Axe is meant to be a Juggernaught's weapon, not a defender's weapon.

[Xel Unknown]

Also your version would have more problems with the Bulwak Armor... Temp-HP stacking would be OP.

[Fury of the Tempest]

Also your version would have more problems with the Bulwak Armor... Temp-HP stacking would be OP.

....

I hate it when people don't read thing's properly.

'any temporary hit points you have before summoning the Granite Axe are lost'

I took thinks like Bulwark into consideration you know.

[Xel Unknown]

Then I'd agure that makes it worse not better...

[Fury of the Tempest]

Then I'd agure that makes it worse not better...

... So, first you complain about Bulwak armour, then I point out that I have already taken it, and other such items into account, and your complaining that the balanced version is worse than the overpowered version?

Make up your mind...

[Xel Unknown]

Naa... I just don't like it and only seem problems or weakpoints (it's op if they combo with the Temp-HP stacking thing, which still is debatable if a good idea if used the weird way you suggest and it's way to punishingly weak if they can't mix at all and just removes temp-hp like that isn't anything but just adding painfully punishing builds to the system which isn't something we need) with it. Not allowing it to combo with the Temp-HP giving stuff is not a good thing for the system. And really just the thing works way to weird for me to do anything but disagree with adding that. The Wind Raper idea on the other hand... Has an interesting new mechanic... But I'm 100% sure they're not really have it work as you want it to, which you only rant and rave over such actions. So meh...

[Fury of the Tempest]

.... Honestly Xel, your already going to be stack THP yourself, as Granite Axe has a lot of THP gain if you didn't notice. You don't really need help from others to build up your THP. Besides, THP from others isn't that big or prominanat that not being able to get THP from another source is a huge drawback. Not compared to the benefits of being able to actually stack THP

And I don't mind if the HB is reworked. Honestly, I haven't put that much work into it and its not my talent to begin with. So they can take my ideas and change them if they want.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Wouldn't it be cool if the granite axe's ultimate - whatever else it did - gave you resist 20 until the start of your next turn or something?

[Fury of the Tempest]

... I did mean for it to be until the end of your next turn anyway.

I think 20 resist for a -4 on top of the 2d10 damage to six enemies is a bit big.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Hence not specifying whatever else it does. Just saying resist 20 sounds cool.

[Fury of the Tempest]

I have to agree on that.

[Xel Unknown]

Getting 20 resist would be cool... But would be so high that it'd only prompt GMs to use more "loss of life" with their monesters for that party to help try and keep some feeling of threat and risk in one's fights. As somebody who's played in parties where a team of four is able to take out some INSANE monsters... Having the risk level of combat is an issue... But then again more one for GMs to worry about not the Devs.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Risk level of combat is absolutely an issue. The difference is that 1 turn of 'can't touch me' could be awesome and wouldn't stop you being any less vulnerable on your other turns.

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Some quick errata-related announcements.

1) The Combat System Revamp is actually coming down the pipeline a lot faster than expected. We've almost got all the big numbers worked out (looks like a *lot* is going to change - even things like starting HP for players might go up due to the new numbers). Of course - just because the math and core design is almost done doesn't mean that it won't still take a ton of time to transpose everything to the new numbers. That'll probably take a lot, lot longer than just figuring out what the numbers should be. Just wanted to provide a heads up of what's going on behind the scene (if anyone wants to volunteer to help us do this and doesn't mind doing huge amounts of work in a short time frame - feel free to PM me. We'll be taking on a very small team to work on development).

2) Do you like the core utility talent system? Do you like the talent specialization system? Well, Philadelphus and I are working on a brewing up a wild mixture of the best of both worlds (we hope!). This will be an alternate to the standard utility talent/racial traits/utilities-at-levelup system and hopefully a lot more flexible and intuitive. However, you should be able to make very similar characters under both systems. 

3) Raise your hand if people in your gaming group find it annoying to have to choose 3 combat talents to leave on the bench each encounter. I'd say it's about 75% or more of my playgroup (including me). We figured out, which I'm sure others have before, that we minded it a lot less when we chose 5 talents to always bring into battle and always left 3 on the side... But still could use the 1/battle combat talent swap-out to trade one of your 'Main' abilities for one of your abilities on your 'sideboard'. It also takes combat longer to start if people are choosing combat talents before every battle (or forgetting to choose them and then having to retroactive choose... Which is weird). Since that's how we treat it anyways, we're thinking of just making that a rule of the system. Choose 5 main talents and keep 3 on the side. No painful cutting 3 talents from your build each battle or time delays as people do that cutting. Of course, this is less raw versatility than you had before - so we might make it a 6/2 split over a 5/3, or a 6/3 split. But then again, we didn't nerf anything when we added the 1/battle switch, so might not make sense to add a talent here (besides it feeling better - and who's to say that 5 talents is more correct than 6 anyway?).

Anyway, three quick updates about the big updates rolling down the lane. Pretty much the only things we're not messing with at the moment are boons (that could well change, boons haven't worked out nearly as well as we hoped) and destinies (we wuv you destinies, don't ever leave).


Important Note: Even when drafts of these revamps are ready for public testing (which will not be for quite a while) - we will still not delete the original materials. If you end up preferring the original version of the system revamp - you'll still be able to play that version and we'll still have the links readily available.

[Fury of the Tempest]

choose 3 utility talents to leave on the bench each encounter

I think you mean 3 combat talents, :p

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

By Jove, you're right! Fixed.

[A1C Bronymous]

What does that actually do, though? You pick 5 talents to bring in and 3 that you can't EVER use, unless you swap out with the minor or Open options, etc? That sounds like a serious negative, and stupidly limiting- considering that most people use those 3 bench talents as contingencies for certain situations (single enemy vs many, for example). Or, is it that you just pick 5 and leave 3 out, in which case.... that's already what happens.

I still think, since you brought up 6 talents, that you should implement the Default Attack for all players- 0 pips, Standard Action that non-damage builds can use to do something offensive (obviously not much), in the event of them being thrown into combat on their own (which could then actually be something DMs could do), or if they're the last man standing in combat. It also wouldn't count toward their build talent limit (because if they had to take up a slot , then you might as well pick something that does more damage, or gains you pips).

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

1) Instead of picking 5 and leaving out 3, with options to trade out before each battle, you pick 5 and leave out 3 during character creation (with the 1/battle way to access your sideboard talents still a thing, as well as making items like Spellbook more relevant). You can of course change things up between sessions. Might also work to let players decide to swap talents between their Main and Sideboard (the 5 you automatically bring in is the main, the 3 you keep on the side to be accessed in other ways is the sideboard) during an extended rest the way people currently do before each battle. The point is to limit the frustration of players and speed gameplay. Upping the number of combat talents you can bring in to battle to 6 and giving players 9 total to choose from should definitely counteract any loss of flexibility (especially when there are things like Spellbook and conjured weapons in the system).

TLDR; Ultimately, lots of people report (including me) that it's painful to always have to cut something from a build before each combat. It also clearly slows the game (because you have to do it each combat). It's just not great design. We want to remove the need to do that while still giving people enough versatility to deal with multiple combat situations - so things end up being a more pleasant experience.

2) We're actually probably going to include the default attack. We've only not wanted to include it because of the added complexity of yet-another-thing for new players to learn. However, if we lose the complexity of the "Pick 5 out of 8 every battle" rule - then that'd give us more than enough room to work in the default attack.

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