A Brand New System - Official Announcement
+17
Paper Shadow
Fury of the Tempest
mjh6
Crystalite
Quietkal
tygerburningbright
Pingcode
AProcrastinatingWriter
ZamuelNow
A1C Bronymous
Xel Unknown
Philadelphus
Lapis-Lazily
Brony 7 of 9
Dusk Raven
Zarhon
Stairc -Dan Felder
21 posters
Page 2 of 8
Page 2 of 8 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Well said. Basically, don't assume anything in the current system is going to be transferred over; we're rebuilding from the ground up, and if we come across a spot that could be filled by something we already have, then we'll use it.Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:In short, the process is not going to be "how will All or Nothing work in the new system?" The question we instead ask is, "Do we want an effect that gives tons of power this turn and drops you next turn in the system to begin with? Does it serve the new game's design goals?"
Philadelphus- Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 734
Join date : 2012-07-18
Age : 34
Location : Hilo, Hawai‘i
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Zarhon wrote:Ooh, a new smiley. Can we have more, please? I believe there were a lot of them back from the smiley contest, that were mentioned would be added in.Pingcode wrote:It doesn't have a chassis. It's a rulebook.
With cooling hands I write this post
A quick distraction, gone all too soon
A moment's respite at the most
For hanging high is the moon
Your words are clear, you wish to smile
And your pain I would love to release
But you must wait longer a while
For time is rarer than ambergris
Pingcode- Technical Administrator
- Gender :
Posts : 851
Join date : 2013-02-07
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
You made new smileys and didn't tell us!? Shame!
Crystalite- Celestia's Disciple
- Posts : 2898
Join date : 2013-10-06
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
I assume from the "building from the ground up" sentiments that this may take a while to be released... curse you for making me all excited.
Dusk Raven- Epic Pwny
- Posts : 1791
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 32
Location : Midwest US
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
*evil laugh*
The good news is that your positive reactions have made us even more excited to work on it. We've already made phenomenal progress in the last week or so. However, we've learned our lesson about releasing things prematurely. It's just messy when we end up having to fix huge portions of it later. We'll definitely let you guys start testing it's ready for Beta, which we hope to have done before Summer. It depends on our schedules going forward.
The good news is that your positive reactions have made us even more excited to work on it. We've already made phenomenal progress in the last week or so. However, we've learned our lesson about releasing things prematurely. It's just messy when we end up having to fix huge portions of it later. We'll definitely let you guys start testing it's ready for Beta, which we hope to have done before Summer. It depends on our schedules going forward.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Proactive Skills
In no particular order, these are the current proactive skills in our new system. They're subject to change, as is everything, and they're not going to be perfect for every single character (even games with over 100 skills don't always suit everyone) but we feel like this is going to be a vast improvement when it comes to both customization and gameplay over the old system. You will also no longer have attributes, so it's no longer impossible to make perfectly sensible character concepts like "a wizard that really doesn't know anything about healing".
Perception
Noticing details, spotting traps and ambushes etc.
Insight
Reading peoples' expressions, tones of voice and similar to determine what they're feeling and whether they're lying.
Might
Physical strength, swimming against the current, leaping wide chasms, breaking down doors.
Acrobatics
Tumbling, Balancing, Juggling, Agility. This + Might equals the old Athletics. Acrobatics and Might overlap in things like Running or Mountain Climbing which both could perform.
Heal
Injuries-be-gone and analyzing wounds, diseases etc.
Arcana
Analyzing and Manipulating magical effects, similar to how Dexterity can fiddle with traps or machines.
Dexterity
Small Motor Skills, lock-picking, machine-jiggering and trap-disabling/resetting.
Stealth
Name says it all
General Knowledge
Anything that doesn't fall into another skill. Who's the king here? Who's the local mob boss? How do you cook a decent meal? Which mushrooms are sage to eat? No longer will there never be any skill that works for a particular challenge.
Defensive Skills
It's often a major pain to take skills like Endurance only to have your dungeon-master never actually hit you with something that cares. On the other hand, most players won't take Endurance because of this and thus a DM has to be careful how many 'endurance-matters' things he or she throws at the party. It's a vicious cycle, and taking defensive options isn't as fun as taking some of the more proactive skills (even Heal can analyze wounds to determine information Sherlock Holmes style, and the presence of Injuries in the new system will make it vastly more useful). Thus, you'll also get the following 3 skills which you'll get to spend points on separately, according to how you envision your character.
Endurance
Enduring serious damage, wounds and diseases through sheer physical toughness
Reflexes
Responding to traps and ambushes with lightning speed.
Willpower
Mentally resistant to mind-altering affects, or similar mental assaults (from resisting body possession and charm spells to holding onto one's sanity in the face of abominations).
Where's the Persuasion?
In an optional supplement. It's a fine line to walk between providing skills that improve gameplay/represent what your player is capable of and skills that take away the core experience of roleplaying. Here are some common issues with having a persuasion-based, "social tank".
1) The, “oh really” roll
Player 1: I ask the King for a boat (rolls decently).
King: I cannot spare any ships at the moment, I’m afraid. The huegoths harry our waters each moon and
There will not be--
Player 2: Oh really? You sure? (rolls huge)
King: … Oh alright.
This is the, “oh really?” roll. It’s the social equivalent of a skilled thief taking over at picking a lock. Only, unlike with the lock, this check precludes an interesting roleplaying exchange and cuts interactions with the King short. It’s particularly troublesome for new DMs and new players, which use the Persuasion skills like a button to press when faced with unwilling NPCs. A DM could just say the king can’t be persuaded by tone, but that’s making the Persuasion checks irrelevant.
2) Shut up, don’t talk to him, I’m the one with the high Persuasion!
You wouldn’t want a guy with a low heal check to be making the crucial heal roll. You wouldn’t want the guy with low stealth to try sneaking past the guards. Why would you want the guy with the low persuasion skill to be talking to anyone important?
Players attempt to optimize this simple truth and people with lower Persuasion scores get pushed away from roleplaying. You can try to get around this by letting the roleplay happen naturally and then let the highest Persuasion guy roll no matter what, but that’s really artificial. In a character-based game like we want the new system to focus on, discouraging players from talking to NPCs isn’t high on our priority list.
3) Why do we need it anyway?
Persuasion skills create problems for roleplaying exchanges, sure, but what do they actually bring to the table? A bit of added character customization I suppose, but there are tons of ways to customize your characters and you can still roleplay the character as a persuasive devil. The persuasion skills are only really useful in character customization for players that suck beyond belief at diplomacy (and similar). They allow a guy who can only think to say, “Oh really? You sure about that?” in a bland tone to somehow come off as wildly persuasive in-game. That creates its own roleplaying problems. I’ve often had players get very frustrated because their diplomatic skills in roleplaying couldn’t support their diplomacy skill in a game. Their frustration was nothing compared to the other players at the table.
On the other hand, I’ve run whole games without a single Persuasion check to see whether it’s needed. I found those games flowing with rich conversation and an added emphasis on what the king’s motivations are and how you can get him to give you the boat. When you can’t just press the Persuade button, you actually have to pay more attention to the characters you’re interacting with.
The Reduced-Roleplaying Supplement
I know some DMs will want to include persuasion skills in their games anyway, and sometimes it can even be a good idea. Experienced DMs can also carefully circumvent most of the above issues (though it takes added work). We'd rather just cut the problem to begin with and give DMs that want persuasion-skills in their games the option to include them. You can just have a single ‘persuasion’ skill’ of course, but here is some added customization (which is the main point of putting it as a skill on a character sheet).
Either way, I’d recommend trying out the game without persuasion-skills first and seeing if you or your players like it that way. You can always add the following skills back in later.
Deception
How good you are at convincing others of your sincerity. If you are a master at Deception, you can tell someone that the sky is green and they’ll believe that you think it’s green (but won’t think it’s green themselves).
Persuasion
How good you are at convincing someone to agree with your position. If you are a master at Persuasion, you can get someone to believe that the sky is green – but good luck doing so if they think you’re trying to trick them.
Intimidate
How good you are at making people afraid of you. If you are a master at Intimidate, you can get someone to shout that the sky is green to everyone in earshot because they’re very, very afraid to disagree with you.
In no particular order, these are the current proactive skills in our new system. They're subject to change, as is everything, and they're not going to be perfect for every single character (even games with over 100 skills don't always suit everyone) but we feel like this is going to be a vast improvement when it comes to both customization and gameplay over the old system. You will also no longer have attributes, so it's no longer impossible to make perfectly sensible character concepts like "a wizard that really doesn't know anything about healing".
Perception
Noticing details, spotting traps and ambushes etc.
Insight
Reading peoples' expressions, tones of voice and similar to determine what they're feeling and whether they're lying.
Might
Physical strength, swimming against the current, leaping wide chasms, breaking down doors.
Acrobatics
Tumbling, Balancing, Juggling, Agility. This + Might equals the old Athletics. Acrobatics and Might overlap in things like Running or Mountain Climbing which both could perform.
Heal
Injuries-be-gone and analyzing wounds, diseases etc.
Arcana
Analyzing and Manipulating magical effects, similar to how Dexterity can fiddle with traps or machines.
Dexterity
Small Motor Skills, lock-picking, machine-jiggering and trap-disabling/resetting.
Stealth
Name says it all
General Knowledge
Anything that doesn't fall into another skill. Who's the king here? Who's the local mob boss? How do you cook a decent meal? Which mushrooms are sage to eat? No longer will there never be any skill that works for a particular challenge.
Defensive Skills
It's often a major pain to take skills like Endurance only to have your dungeon-master never actually hit you with something that cares. On the other hand, most players won't take Endurance because of this and thus a DM has to be careful how many 'endurance-matters' things he or she throws at the party. It's a vicious cycle, and taking defensive options isn't as fun as taking some of the more proactive skills (even Heal can analyze wounds to determine information Sherlock Holmes style, and the presence of Injuries in the new system will make it vastly more useful). Thus, you'll also get the following 3 skills which you'll get to spend points on separately, according to how you envision your character.
Endurance
Enduring serious damage, wounds and diseases through sheer physical toughness
Reflexes
Responding to traps and ambushes with lightning speed.
Willpower
Mentally resistant to mind-altering affects, or similar mental assaults (from resisting body possession and charm spells to holding onto one's sanity in the face of abominations).
Where's the Persuasion?
In an optional supplement. It's a fine line to walk between providing skills that improve gameplay/represent what your player is capable of and skills that take away the core experience of roleplaying. Here are some common issues with having a persuasion-based, "social tank".
1) The, “oh really” roll
Player 1: I ask the King for a boat (rolls decently).
King: I cannot spare any ships at the moment, I’m afraid. The huegoths harry our waters each moon and
There will not be--
Player 2: Oh really? You sure? (rolls huge)
King: … Oh alright.
This is the, “oh really?” roll. It’s the social equivalent of a skilled thief taking over at picking a lock. Only, unlike with the lock, this check precludes an interesting roleplaying exchange and cuts interactions with the King short. It’s particularly troublesome for new DMs and new players, which use the Persuasion skills like a button to press when faced with unwilling NPCs. A DM could just say the king can’t be persuaded by tone, but that’s making the Persuasion checks irrelevant.
2) Shut up, don’t talk to him, I’m the one with the high Persuasion!
You wouldn’t want a guy with a low heal check to be making the crucial heal roll. You wouldn’t want the guy with low stealth to try sneaking past the guards. Why would you want the guy with the low persuasion skill to be talking to anyone important?
Players attempt to optimize this simple truth and people with lower Persuasion scores get pushed away from roleplaying. You can try to get around this by letting the roleplay happen naturally and then let the highest Persuasion guy roll no matter what, but that’s really artificial. In a character-based game like we want the new system to focus on, discouraging players from talking to NPCs isn’t high on our priority list.
3) Why do we need it anyway?
Persuasion skills create problems for roleplaying exchanges, sure, but what do they actually bring to the table? A bit of added character customization I suppose, but there are tons of ways to customize your characters and you can still roleplay the character as a persuasive devil. The persuasion skills are only really useful in character customization for players that suck beyond belief at diplomacy (and similar). They allow a guy who can only think to say, “Oh really? You sure about that?” in a bland tone to somehow come off as wildly persuasive in-game. That creates its own roleplaying problems. I’ve often had players get very frustrated because their diplomatic skills in roleplaying couldn’t support their diplomacy skill in a game. Their frustration was nothing compared to the other players at the table.
On the other hand, I’ve run whole games without a single Persuasion check to see whether it’s needed. I found those games flowing with rich conversation and an added emphasis on what the king’s motivations are and how you can get him to give you the boat. When you can’t just press the Persuade button, you actually have to pay more attention to the characters you’re interacting with.
The Reduced-Roleplaying Supplement
I know some DMs will want to include persuasion skills in their games anyway, and sometimes it can even be a good idea. Experienced DMs can also carefully circumvent most of the above issues (though it takes added work). We'd rather just cut the problem to begin with and give DMs that want persuasion-skills in their games the option to include them. You can just have a single ‘persuasion’ skill’ of course, but here is some added customization (which is the main point of putting it as a skill on a character sheet).
Either way, I’d recommend trying out the game without persuasion-skills first and seeing if you or your players like it that way. You can always add the following skills back in later.
Deception
How good you are at convincing others of your sincerity. If you are a master at Deception, you can tell someone that the sky is green and they’ll believe that you think it’s green (but won’t think it’s green themselves).
Persuasion
How good you are at convincing someone to agree with your position. If you are a master at Persuasion, you can get someone to believe that the sky is green – but good luck doing so if they think you’re trying to trick them.
Intimidate
How good you are at making people afraid of you. If you are a master at Intimidate, you can get someone to shout that the sky is green to everyone in earshot because they’re very, very afraid to disagree with you.
Last edited by Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:36 pm; edited 3 times in total
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
A sensible setup. The three defensive skills remind me of the Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves of D&D.
Dusk Raven- Epic Pwny
- Posts : 1791
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 32
Location : Midwest US
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Thanks. We spent a huge amount of time on it. It was funny how we didn't set out to mimic D&D's three defenses, but it just worked out that way. It's a very nice division for customization and gameplay. I've always liked those three defenses too, when I was playing 4e.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
So, would the points thing work the same as it does now? You get enough points so that if you spread them out evenly, each skill has 7, and you can only raise each to 10 under normal circumstances, then you apply training and expert skills? Or will there be something new?
mjh6- Newbie Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 1769
Join date : 2013-08-12
Age : 32
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
There will be a very similar system to what you're used to. Can't confirm the exact numbers yet, but with the skill-by-skill customization, I don't think we'll need training anymore. There may end up being options in abilities to do something similar to training if you want it, but we haven't worked out the numbers yet. I posted the skills in question the moment the system was designed and the whole team signed off, but it has yet to go through the numbers-tweaking of, 'development'.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Seems like an interesting array of skills. Approve of the 'isolation' the defensive skills get. Overall, pretty good stuff, though general knowledge seems like it might be a tad too strong by it's sheer flexibility.
There's a bit of vagueness with a few of them, though:
Insight
Dexterity and Acrobatics
Deception and Intimidate
Defensive skills
There's a bit of vagueness with a few of them, though:
Insight
- Spoiler:
- An odd choice of name, given what insight normally means. It implies areas of understanding beyond just other creatures, which the skill as suggested seems to be exclusively focused on.
Wouldn't something like "empathy" fit more for those creature-oriented areas? Or does insight include stuff like deductive and logical reasoning, or understanding of 'cause and effect'?
Dexterity and Acrobatics
- Spoiler:
- These seem to raise a minor confusion when it comes to 'aiming' skills (archery, shooting with a gun or accuracy-requiring machine, juggling knives and flaming batons...), unless acrobatics is purely for bodily/dancing/performing feats.
Deception and Intimidate
- Spoiler:
- These seem to be redundant to add as 'optional' skills, since they seem to be fulfilled via insight (use someone's knowledge to make them assume a non-truth, or find out what they fear/are threatened by, so you can intimidate them with it), arcana/might (scare someone with a show of force or magical prowess / mystery of the unexplainable). Stealth could also count in some ways towards deception (hiding the truth, keeping one unaware of something in a conversation, concealing info, avoiding unwanted/risky topics...).
Defensive skills
- Spoiler:
- Considering their name implies them being used defensively, does that mean that for skill checks that don't involve a threat or immediate, unavoidable challenge to the player, the other equivalent skills are used in its stead?
For instance, a pony trying to climb an ice-covered, freezing mountain would probably require endurance to not keel-over and die. But what if the pony is trying to haul a large concrete slab over a long distance, a task that is taxing and exhausting, but not threatening or harmful. Do they use might, or endurance for such a task?
Similar situation can happen if a wizard tries to manipulate spells that need lots of concentration - assuming the task isn't threatening or can bring negative effects from a failure, do they use willpower, or arcana?
Long story short - Are defensive skills something PCs only use in response to DM threats, or are players expected/allowed/required to use them as skills that involve no threats, instead of relevant skills? Cause there might be a bit of a disparity between them (e.g. a player with minimal might, but massive endurance, allowing them to do superhuman feats of power whilst being a weakling).
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Zarhon wrote:Seems like an interesting array of skills. Approve of the 'isolation' the defensive skills get. Overall, pretty good stuff, though general knowledge seems like it might be a tad too strong by it's sheer flexibility.
There's a bit of vagueness with a few of them, though:
Defensive skills
- Spoiler:
Considering their name implies them being used defensively, does that mean that for skill checks that don't involve a threat or immediate, unavoidable challenge to the player, the other equivalent skills are used in its stead?
For instance, a pony trying to climb an ice-covered, freezing mountain would probably require endurance to not keel-over and die. But what if the pony is trying to haul a large concrete slab over a long distance, a task that is taxing and exhausting, but not threatening or harmful. Do they use might, or endurance for such a task?
Similar situation can happen if a wizard tries to manipulate spells that need lots of concentration - assuming the task isn't threatening or can bring negative effects from a failure, do they use willpower, or arcana?
Long story short - Are defensive skills something PCs only use in response to DM threats, or are players expected/allowed/required to use them as skills that involve no threats, instead of relevant skills? Cause there might be a bit of a disparity between them (e.g. a player with minimal might, but massive endurance, allowing them to do superhuman feats of power whilst being a weakling).
1) Insight could easily be renamed Empathy, but neither name is perfect. Insight implies some wrong aspects, but Empathy is a broader concept than lacking the ability to read expressions, tone and body language. Someone oblivious to that stuff could still feel deep empathy for someone. Anyone have a third name suggestion?
2)All talky skills are going to be unnecessary, which is why we didn't include them in the base. However, none of the other skills can help you lie better. You can scare someone with other actions, but you can't give the "I will find you and I will kill you" speech in a more menacing voice than another character with a different skill. Stealth definitely doesn't help you lie.
3) Defensive skills are meant to be reactive in nature, not proactive. Endurance would not directly help you lug a cart for 100 miles. However, if you start pulling it so long that you have to make an endurance check to NOT suffer a debilitating exhaustion condition, endurance will help you endure such effects and enable you to keep going. Might is what you'd use to pull the cart in the first place.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Sitting and re-reading Zarhon's question on defensive skills, I think it does bring up something that should be in the GM guide. There should be some discussion of "take 10" and "take 20" concepts. Someone with low might isn't moving the cart anywhere but someone with average might may be willing to take the "slow and steady wins the race" option for a non-immediate task. It should be discussed for GMs but not a default.
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Good point. We might not use those exact mechanics (not as big a fan of take 10 as I am of take 20), but we should definitely talk about some version of the concept. It's seriously helpful.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
I think most take 10/routine check situations probably fall on the GM simply telling the player not to roll. Applejack trying to harvest an orchard should require a roll but a small handful of trees while fully rested on a nice day should be hand waved.
I'm wondering how General Knowledge is going to interact with Freaky Knowledge and also the loss of History. History probably runs into the role play issues Persuasion has but I wonder if GK is too broad. Though I guess it could be argued that FK will always have use due to the fact that it's a specialist skill and can help define a character.
I'm wondering how General Knowledge is going to interact with Freaky Knowledge and also the loss of History. History probably runs into the role play issues Persuasion has but I wonder if GK is too broad. Though I guess it could be argued that FK will always have use due to the fact that it's a specialist skill and can help define a character.
ZamuelNow- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 3309
Join date : 2013-03-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Indeed. I've already tried out General Knowledge in a game and it's been absolutely fine so far. I'm sure someone somewhere will try to apply it to do something silly, but we'll just explain that it's for things that fall through the cracks and handling random things. If it's doing anything proactive, powerful and intense - you're using it wrong. It's so *broad* that the DCs to do anything truly challenging in it would require great rolls and FK at best.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Is Arcana still the magic casting skill, or is that relegated to flavor in abilities?
Quietkal- Element of Harmony
- Gender :
Posts : 2059
Join date : 2012-07-25
Location : Occasionally
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Abilities are how you create tangible effects out of nothing.
Arcana lets you manipulate EXISTING magical effects, as well as analyze them, the way dexterity can help you disable traps or slightly rejigger them. Arcana could dispel or help you bypass enchantments, or perhaps slightly tweak them to your advantage (if a spell is detecting for non-goblins for a golem to attack, you might be able to shift it to detecting goblins instead with a great check). Gaining control of certain magical constructs, like golems, can also be possible the same way dexterity can let you fiddle with a mechanical turret.
It's magical mechanics basically. You couldn't use it like Magecraft could. Thank god.
Arcana lets you manipulate EXISTING magical effects, as well as analyze them, the way dexterity can help you disable traps or slightly rejigger them. Arcana could dispel or help you bypass enchantments, or perhaps slightly tweak them to your advantage (if a spell is detecting for non-goblins for a golem to attack, you might be able to shift it to detecting goblins instead with a great check). Gaining control of certain magical constructs, like golems, can also be possible the same way dexterity can let you fiddle with a mechanical turret.
It's magical mechanics basically. You couldn't use it like Magecraft could. Thank god.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Regarding the use of insight, I think it works quite well for its role. Two people could both listen to a third person telling a sad tale of woe that befell them; the first could empathize with them and want to cheer them up as a result, while the second could observe them closely and use insight to tell that they're actually an actor making it all up. It's basically "reading people" and I think "insight" sums it up nicely.
Philadelphus- Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 734
Join date : 2012-07-18
Age : 34
Location : Hilo, Hawai‘i
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Thought I'd spoil our current draft of the Rework's Level-Up Table (including what you get at level 1).
Level 1: 10 Novice Ability Points, 1 Special Move, 1 Novice Feature, 7 Combat Talents, Assorted Skills
Level 2: 3 Heroic Ability Points, 2 Heroic Trait Points
Level 3: 3 Heroic Ability Points, 2 Heroic Trait Points
Level 4: Choose Your Destiny
Level 5: 3 Heroic Ability Points, 2 Heroic Trait Points
Level 6: 3 Legendary Points, 2 Legendary Trait Points
Level 7: Destiny Feature
Level 8: 3 Legendary Points, 2 Legendary Trait Points
Level 9: 3 Legendary Points, 2 Legendary Trait Points
Level 10: Destiny Feature
Notes
As mentioned earlier, abilities will be separated by tier. Novice points can purchase novice abilities, heroic points can purchase heroic abilities and legendary points can purchase legendary abilities.
Novice abilities will be roughly as powerful as the current abilities in PT and LL. Heroic abilities will be roughly 2x as powerful as equivalently-costed novice abilities and Legendary abilities will be roughly 3x as powerful as novice abilities.
Most abilities will cost 3 points in their respective tier (the current system of costing in LL).
- Commentary:
- The old system got a ridiculous number of ability points at level 1, because it was originally designed to be a 1-level game (without any level-ups whatsoever). When we added leveling up, we couldn't afford to give out a lot more non-combat stuff, especially if we wanted room for destinies, because there was a crazy amount at level one.
In testing, we discovered that non-combat abilities are surprisingly not very necessary for a great story and roleplaying experience. We ran whole games without any non-combat abilities whatsoever (and many other systems hand out practically none) outside of the skill system. This gave us freedom to cut back on the abilities at level 1, which should also make getting into the game easier, and instead make level-ups much cooler by giving you lots of added ability options as you gain levels.
We also cut boons because they're a great idea in theory but in practice we could never get them to work. There were few abilities that felt powerful enough to be a boon without creating massive headaches for DMs. We tried so, so hard to get Boons to work in the old system but the vast majority were almost-universally met with shrugs and 'meh' responses - which is almost worse than outright hatred. At least hatred is making people feel something.
Instead, we're following a common house-rule and are going to be handing out a lot of added personal power instead. Trust me, if we could design boons that were awesome without causing problems - we would. We loved the idea when it was first pitched. If some of you figure out how to do it and make a great supplement, awesome. Until then, we are very sad-but-relieved to see them go.
Level 1: 10 Novice Ability Points, 1 Special Move, 1 Novice Feature, 7 Combat Talents, Assorted Skills
Level 2: 3 Heroic Ability Points, 2 Heroic Trait Points
Level 3: 3 Heroic Ability Points, 2 Heroic Trait Points
Level 4: Choose Your Destiny
Level 5: 3 Heroic Ability Points, 2 Heroic Trait Points
Level 6: 3 Legendary Points, 2 Legendary Trait Points
Level 7: Destiny Feature
Level 8: 3 Legendary Points, 2 Legendary Trait Points
Level 9: 3 Legendary Points, 2 Legendary Trait Points
Level 10: Destiny Feature
Notes
As mentioned earlier, abilities will be separated by tier. Novice points can purchase novice abilities, heroic points can purchase heroic abilities and legendary points can purchase legendary abilities.
Novice abilities will be roughly as powerful as the current abilities in PT and LL. Heroic abilities will be roughly 2x as powerful as equivalently-costed novice abilities and Legendary abilities will be roughly 3x as powerful as novice abilities.
Most abilities will cost 3 points in their respective tier (the current system of costing in LL).
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
1) What's a "Novice Feature"?
2) I assume the trait points are the combat-side of the level up progression?
3) If you get '1 special move' at lvl1, does that imply more later, from other sources?
4) Can legendary/Heroic points (combat and non-combat) buy those of the tier below them? Such as, using a legendary point to buy a heroic one.
2) I assume the trait points are the combat-side of the level up progression?
3) If you get '1 special move' at lvl1, does that imply more later, from other sources?
4) Can legendary/Heroic points (combat and non-combat) buy those of the tier below them? Such as, using a legendary point to buy a heroic one.
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
1) A special kind of combat trait from a select list at level 1.
2) Yep.
3) No, it's just being precise. You only get one special move. More would stop making them so special.
4) We're considering this heavily, but we can't confirm one way or another yet. It depends on several additional factors.
2) Yep.
3) No, it's just being precise. You only get one special move. More would stop making them so special.
4) We're considering this heavily, but we can't confirm one way or another yet. It depends on several additional factors.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
What about point spillover, for the heroic/legendary tiers of stuff? I.e. you're left with an excess 1-2 points (trait or ability) with nothing worthwhile to spend it on, or want to wait some levels to get a costlier ability. Would there be any 'compensation' for such unspent points, akin to how Daniel used 'unspent' talent spec points to give yourself a pseudo-skill boost in his talent spec module?
Also notice a lack of any 'gold' mentioned. Are items now DM-given/crafted rewards, rather than auto-upgrades? Will there be equivalent non-combat /'technique' items in that case as well (or a list/template of them that the DM can use, for examples or DM simplicity)?
Also notice a lack of any 'gold' mentioned. Are items now DM-given/crafted rewards, rather than auto-upgrades? Will there be equivalent non-combat /'technique' items in that case as well (or a list/template of them that the DM can use, for examples or DM simplicity)?
Zarhon- Smile Smile Smile
- Gender :
Posts : 3531
Join date : 2012-07-19
Age : 33
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
That's one of the factors we'll be considering. Our priority will be making sure the system is as pleasant to use and as painless as possible. We just can't come to conclusions until we have a good picture of the specific abilities available and their associated point costs. Since the specific abilities aren't even designed yet, much less developed, we can't comment on this aspect of the system yet.
Gold was actually never an auto-upgrade and was always a DM-only reward. My own games almost never had players with level-appropriate gold. Usually they'd be vastly over or under the norm depending on how things were going for them in the story. However, most people almost always played it as an auto-upgrade so we just decided to go with the flow. DM rewards will now get to be more special in comparison.
It'll also be easy to provide gold and say, "1000 gold is worth 10 points of traits, so if you have 3000 gold you can buy an item that simulates a 30 point trait". Hopefully though, this will encourage DMs to keep their bait for players in terms of story-hooks or truly unique items rather than posting a basic gold reward.
Gold was actually never an auto-upgrade and was always a DM-only reward. My own games almost never had players with level-appropriate gold. Usually they'd be vastly over or under the norm depending on how things were going for them in the story. However, most people almost always played it as an auto-upgrade so we just decided to go with the flow. DM rewards will now get to be more special in comparison.
It'll also be easy to provide gold and say, "1000 gold is worth 10 points of traits, so if you have 3000 gold you can buy an item that simulates a 30 point trait". Hopefully though, this will encourage DMs to keep their bait for players in terms of story-hooks or truly unique items rather than posting a basic gold reward.
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
- Gender :
Posts : 3099
Join date : 2012-07-19
Re: A Brand New System - Official Announcement
Right... here's my views on this....
*Ahem*
HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE
*Ahem*
HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE
Fury of the Tempest- Freakin' Alicorn Princess
- Gender :
Posts : 4116
Join date : 2012-09-22
Age : 30
Location : ENGLAND!!!!
Page 2 of 8 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Similar topics
» The Abilities System Is Official!
» Official Races in the Ability System
» Introducing the ACTion System – Combat System Replacement [April Fools]
» An Official Laughter Table
» Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)
» Official Races in the Ability System
» Introducing the ACTion System – Combat System Replacement [April Fools]
» An Official Laughter Table
» Official Errata: Changes and fixes to the game (Subscription Recommended)
Page 2 of 8
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
|
|