The Hooved Races

XandZero2 wrote:Aw... I really want to see the rhyming work myself. That's why I recommended giving Zebras a benefit but not a penalty for rhyming. Still, JS brings up a good option. Maybe Zebras could even just have a crazy knowledge of animal and plant life?

I'd still like the rhyming though... It is fun - and as goofy as all hell. That's why I love it (:

Again, could be a utility talent. Or perhaps, one of multiple racial options. We probably shouldn't force punish people for zebra concepts that don't rhyme. But either way, that mechanic should be in there.

Hey, remind me why Zebra is a separate race again? Why isn't it just a re-skinned earth pony? With a rhyming talent that mimics the above trait under Everypony?

XandZero2 wrote:On another note, I was going over race concepts with my brother today, and he mentioned the idea of a "Bat Pony" race like the ones seen pulling Luna's chariot in Season 2.

If we wanted to go there, I'm thinking Bat Ponies could possibly switch out night vision for the weather controlling feats that regular Pegasi get.

I'm thinking those might actually be Nightmares.

Ideas for Sheep:

Demonu's - Being herded: When a sheep receives aid from another player, they get an automatic +1 bonus should the other player succeed in aiding them.

Woolen Coat: +5 to Endurance checks against cold

Countable: Can spend a Magic Point to cause target to fall asleep

Fluffy: Gain the following Utility

Static Cling Preparation: 1 minute
Hoofheld objects can be affixed to the caster for then next 5 minutes. In addition, attempts to touch the caster are met with a light shock.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Hey, remind me why Zebra is a separate race again? Why isn't it just a re-skinned earth pony? With a rhyming talent that mimics the above trait under Everypony?

I can't speak for every-body (Must. Fight. Urge. To say. 'Everypony' - at least sometimes), but I feel like it would be slighting Zebras big-time to make them just a re-skinned Earth Pony. If you recall the first episode Zecura (I have no idea if I'm spelling her name right) showed up in, even the Earth Ponies (especially the Earth Ponies) saw her as something alien. Personally, I also love Zecura in the show, and feel that Zebras should not only deserve the respect of their own racial rules in an MLP setting, they should also have a rhyming talent exclusive to them. It's the kind of thing that would make them flavorful, and that's what we're looking for in the end, right?

Zecora. Her name is Zecora.

There were zebras in previous generations, as I recall...

XandZero2 wrote:

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Hey, remind me why Zebra is a separate race again? Why isn't it just a re-skinned earth pony? With a rhyming talent that mimics the above trait under Everypony?

I can't speak for every-body (Must. Fight. Urge. To say. 'Everypony' - at least sometimes), but I feel like it would be slighting Zebras big-time to make them just a re-skinned Earth Pony. If you recall the first episode Zecura (I have no idea if I'm spelling her name right) showed up in, even the Earth Ponies (especially the Earth Ponies) saw her as something alien. Personally, I also love Zecura in the show, and feel that Zebras should not only deserve the respect of their own racial rules in an MLP setting, they should also have a rhyming talent exclusive to them. It's the kind of thing that would make them flavorful, and that's what we're looking for in the end, right?

Right, but re-skinned means, "mechanically the same, but different when it comes to roleplaying". So playing a zebra would be a big deal and very different when it comes to roleplaying encounters, but we might not need to make a whole extra unique race. They just don't seem meaningfully different without the rhyming, they just look different.

Question about utility talents:

Are these hooved races going to be restricted to the "Everypony" utility talents, or can some of them (zebra, buffalo, donkey, for starters) use earth pony talents as well?

lyric wrote:Question about utility talents:

Are these hooved races going to be restricted to the "Everypony" utility talents, or can some of them (zebra, buffalo, donkey, for starters) use earth pony talents as well?

Restricted to Everypony unless otherwise stated.

For Minotaurs, I was think Creepy Admirer might be better as talent.

It could either be used straight up as it is, and provide an additional MP during the day.

Or it could be

Fancolt/Fanfilly - Minotaur only.
Some ponies just really like hands. A Fancolt/Fanfilly will follow you around and will run minor errands, but will flee in case combat happens.

Cardbo wrote:For Minotaurs, I was think Creepy Admirer might be better as talent.

It could either be used straight up as it is, and provide an additional MP during the day.

Or it could be

Fancolt/Fanfilly - Minotaur only.
Some ponies just really like hands. A Fancolt/Fanfilly will follow you around and will run minor errands, but will flee in case combat happens.

I really like the fan option. I think I'll play with something for the level-up system like that too. But this seems a lot crisper and cleaner than the Creepy Admirer, and fits well as a utility talent. Some specifications might be needed to better explain what a minor errand is though. Just giving some examples might be enough.

Fancolt/Fanfilly - Minotaur only.
Some ponies just really like hands. A Fancolt/Fanfilly will follow you around and will run minor errands, but will flee in case combat happens. Errands might include getting food, running to the store, acting as a general caddy.

I still really think that Zebras should get their own racial abilities, but at the end of the day, it's your project Stairc, so the final call is yours. I still think that something like this could work as a Zebra Racial:

Rhyme Time
Zebras are legendary when it comes to rhyming, so much so, that they can make it seem effortless. No one knows exactly why Zebras are prone to rhyming, but when they do, sometimes magical things can happen. If a player is able to rhyme a full, coherent sentence (whether the rhyming itself is good or not) before making a skill check, they get a +2 Rhyming bonus to that check.

I posted this in the utility talents section as well.

XandZero2 wrote:I still really think that Zebras should get their own racial abilities, but at the end of the day, it's your project Stairc, so the final call is yours. I still think that something like this could work as a Zebra Racial:

Rhyme Time
Zebras are legendary when it comes to rhyming, so much so, that they can make it seem effortless. No one knows exactly why Zebras are prone to rhyming, but when they do, sometimes magical things can happen. If a player is able to rhyme a full, coherent sentence (whether the rhyming itself is good or not) before making a skill check, they get a +2 Rhyming bonus to that check.

I posted this in the utility talents section as well.

Oh, I'm fine with Zebras as their own race - but nothing besides a rhyming trait of some sort has seemed super compelling yet. I like Rhyme Time, some variation of that would definitely make Zebras feel special.

I think part of the problem is that we've only seen one zebra so far, and only in a few episodes. It's difficult to get a feel for a racial bonus off of just one member of that race. Maybe all zebras have some sort of quirk when talking, and Zecora's just happens to be rhyming – maybe other zebras go in for alliteration, or haiku, or iambic pentameter or something like that.

Philadelphus wrote:I think part of the problem is that we've only seen one zebra so far, and only in a few episodes. It's difficult to get a feel for a racial bonus off of just one member of that race. Maybe all zebras have some sort of quirk when talking, and Zecora's just happens to be rhyming – maybe other zebras go in for alliteration, or haiku, or iambic pentameter or something like that.

Interesting idea. That could be fun.

There were zebras in previous gens, according to TVTropes. Maybe we should look them up.

What about this for a Minotaur template?

Minotaur
Satisfaction Guaranteed
At the beginning of the day, choose one of your trained skills. Until the end of the day, your allies are considered trained in that skill.

Show Them How You Rock! -Daily
You can tell the DM to treat the result of a d20 roll he just made as a 1. No rerolls are possible.

Attack The Day! - Magic
Trigger - You or one of your allies rolls a natural 20 on a skill check they do not have a cutie mark in.
Treat the result as though it were a cutie mark critical.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:What about this for a Minotaur template?

Minotaur
Satisfaction Guaranteed
At the beginning of the day, choose one of your trained skills. Until the end of the day, your allies are considered trained in that skill.

Show Them How You Rock! -Daily
You can tell the DM to treat the result of a d20 roll he just made as a 1. No rerolls are possible.

Attack The Day! - Magic
Trigger - You or one of your allies rolls a natural 20 on a skill check they do not have a cutie mark in.
Treat the result as though it were a cutie mark critical.

The first two look ok, although "Attack The Day!" is a bit dubious. On one hand, the magic cost limits its use severely. On the other, it seems completely game breaking without it.

There's also the fact, that since the cutie mark critical's "effect" is largely determined by the DM, it is questionable if it ends up being "worth" the magic point. No cutie marks to use as reference could be tricky for the DM as well.

Zarhon wrote:

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:What about this for a Minotaur template?

Minotaur
Satisfaction Guaranteed
At the beginning of the day, choose one of your trained skills. Until the end of the day, your allies are considered trained in that skill.

Show Them How You Rock! -Daily
You can tell the DM to treat the result of a d20 roll he just made as a 1. No rerolls are possible.

Attack The Day! - Magic
Trigger - You or one of your allies rolls a natural 20 on a skill check they do not have a cutie mark in.
Treat the result as though it were a cutie mark critical.

The first two look ok, although "Attack The Day!" is a bit dubious. On one hand, the magic cost limits its use severely. On the other, it seems completely game breaking without it.

There's also the fact, that since the cutie mark critical's "effect" is largely determined by the DM, it is questionable if it ends up being "worth" the magic point. No cutie marks to use as reference could be tricky for the DM as well.

We can definitely change "Attack the Day". I think it's fair, Magic points are absolutely absurd and thus an absurdly high cost. I agree that the talent is a little intimidating to DMs though. How about we try to come up with another talent of the same or similar name?

Also, I was thinking of giving minotaurs free training in another skill, but that seems silly (a utility talent in an upcoming expansion will do that anyway, and I'd rather encourage builds than pre-build everything for the players).

On another note, I think the extra magic point on Donkeys might be too powerful. Magic Points are simply nuts. I'm playing with this at the moment for the Donkey template. Names very subject to change.

Donkey
Stalwart
Donkeys gain an additional 2 attribute points at creation.

Overachiever
Donkeys can have up to 12 points in a single attribute instead of 10.

Industrious
During character creation, a Donkey can choose one of its Magic talents. Once per day, the Donkey can use that talent without spending a Magic point.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:On another note, I think the extra magic point on Donkeys might be too powerful. Magic Points are simply nuts. I'm playing with this at the moment for the Donkey template. Names very subject to change.

Donkey
Stalwart
Donkeys gain an additional 2 attribute points at creation.

Overachiever
Donkeys can have up to 12 points in a single attribute instead of 10.

Industrious
During character creation, a Donkey can choose one of its Magic talents. Once per day, the Donkey can use that talent without spending a Magic point.

^One catch to this template is that even though Donkeys have the option to give an attribute 12 points, the option won't come into play too often, even with 2 additional attribute points to spend. On character creation, it won't be feasible to have more than one stat that high.

On the other hand, if leveling up gives you more stat points to spend, then the Donkey could become a much more powerful character through level progression. They'd have the most potential of all the races.

Now, these things might have already been considered (and I don't know if they'd really be problems or not) - but those are my initial thoughts.

XandZero2 wrote:

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:On another note, I think the extra magic point on Donkeys might be too powerful. Magic Points are simply nuts. I'm playing with this at the moment for the Donkey template. Names very subject to change.

Donkey
Stalwart
Donkeys gain an additional 2 attribute points at creation.

Overachiever
Donkeys can have up to 12 points in a single attribute instead of 10.

Industrious
During character creation, a Donkey can choose one of its Magic talents. Once per day, the Donkey can use that talent without spending a Magic point.

^One catch to this template is that even though Donkeys have the option to give an attribute 12 points, the option won't come into play too often, even with 2 additional attribute points to spend. On character creation, it won't be feasible to have more than one stat that high.

On the other hand, if leveling up gives you more stat points to spend, then the Donkey could become a much more powerful character through level progression. They'd have the most potential of all the races.

Now, these things might have already been considered (and I don't know if they'd really be problems or not) - but those are my initial thoughts.

Actually, Overachiever is designed to make the donkey a powerhouse at a whole attribute if they want to be, and they don't have to be. For example, my donkey character Balthazar sunk all 12 points into Horse-Sense and all training into the 2 horse-sense skills... Giving him a nice +15 to Perception and Persuasion, +12 to Streetwise and still a very respectable +11 to Stunts (with 8 in Athletics).

Now, I know I might be beating a dead horse (or zebra) here (Stairc, please tell me if I'm crossing the line), but something else I want to do is bring the Zebra concept back to the table one more time.

I thought about the idea of having the Zebra be a re-skinned Earth Pony, but you said it yourself before Stairc, a race should be flavorful, and I just don't see a re-skin being flavorful at all. That's why it bothers me so much, I guess. If we just re-skin Zebras, then why would anyone want to be a Zebra? It's not rewarding for the player, and if a Zebra and an Earth Pony are on the same team, shouldn't there be more distinction between them than stripes?

And you know, even if Zebras and Earth Ponies are the same race, there are actually a lot of precedents for making different nationalities have different racial bonuses in RPs. I can think of at least two distinct examples, being the old Iron Kingdoms RP setting and the Dragon Age system. Both have a number of different human nationalities, from pirate-like, to Frenchy, to American, to Indian - each with their own racial bonuses and abilities.

Therefore, allow me to present an updated template for the Zebra:

Tribal Tattoos
Zebras have a Cutie Mark, and do not gain a 3rd trained skill like other non-pony races.

Dangerous Domain /3 times a day
Zebras can still attempt to pass a check on a natural one, ignoring the normal critical failure rule. If their die roll (in this case a 1) plus their stat and ability bonuses total up to a success, then they can still succeed at their check.

Rhyming Wizard
Zebras often have a unique way of talking. Upon character creation, choose to either specialize in rhyme, haiku, rap, or another equally kooky form of communication. Whenever out of combat, you may use this form of communication 'in character' to create a coherent sentence. In which case, add a non-cumulative +2 magic bonus to your next die roll.

Zebra Sense
Zebras are unusually aware of their surroundings. Whenever making checks to avoid being surprised or ambushed, Zebras add a +5 bonus to their rolls

--------------------------------------------------------

After playing a Zebra character for a bit, I've realized that Dangerous Domain can come in handy every now and then (I rolled a 1 one time, but still ended up getting a 33 on my skill check after adding The Stare and my stat bonus). I also like the idea of having a bonus for talking funny, but no negative effect if you just can't think of something on the spot. Zebra Sense is there because I think we need to have the reference to Pinkie Pie, and Tribal Tattoos is a cool (and flavorful, in my opinion) way to make Zebras feel a bit more special (:

XandZero2 wrote:Now, I know I might be beating a dead horse (or zebra) here (Stairc, please tell me if I'm crossing the line), but something else I want to do is bring the Zebra concept back to the table one more time.

No line overstepped at all. Keep bringing it back as many times as you like. I'm not convinced one way or another yet. =)

XandZero2 wrote:I thought about the idea of having the Zebra be a re-skinned Earth Pony, but you said it yourself before Stairc, a race should be flavorful, and I just don't see a re-skin being flavorful at all. That's why it bothers me so much, I guess. If we just re-skin Zebras, then why would anyone want to be a Zebra? It's not rewarding for the player, and if a Zebra and an Earth Pony are on the same team, shouldn't there be more distinction between them than stripes?

Not necessarily. There may just be no mechanical difference between saying, "I'm playing a red pony" and, "I'm playing a black-and-white-striped pony with a mohawk". Roleplaying would still be a huge factor.

That isn't to say we shouldn't have a Zebra race - I just haven't been convinced by any design that it's good enough or different enough to merit it's own race... Yet.

I'd very much like to see a new thing pop up.

Haven't read the rest of the post yet (in the middle of ten things). Just wanted to assure you on these points first.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:

XandZero2 wrote:

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:On another note, I think the extra magic point on Donkeys might be too powerful. Magic Points are simply nuts. I'm playing with this at the moment for the Donkey template. Names very subject to change.

Donkey
Stalwart
Donkeys gain an additional 2 attribute points at creation.

Overachiever
Donkeys can have up to 12 points in a single attribute instead of 10.

Industrious
During character creation, a Donkey can choose one of its Magic talents. Once per day, the Donkey can use that talent without spending a Magic point.

^One catch to this template is that even though Donkeys have the option to give an attribute 12 points, the option won't come into play too often, even with 2 additional attribute points to spend. On character creation, it won't be feasible to have more than one stat that high.

On the other hand, if leveling up gives you more stat points to spend, then the Donkey could become a much more powerful character through level progression. They'd have the most potential of all the races.

Now, these things might have already been considered (and I don't know if they'd really be problems or not) - but those are my initial thoughts.

Actually, Overachiever is designed to make the donkey a powerhouse at a whole attribute if they want to be, and they don't have to be. For example, my donkey character Balthazar sunk all 12 points into Horse-Sense and all training into the 2 horse-sense skills... Giving him a nice +15 to Perception and Persuasion, +12 to Streetwise and still a very respectable +11 to Stunts (with 8 in Athletics).

Whoops! I forgot what the difference was between 'attributes' and 'skills.' That is a powerful ability even early on. Would it be too powerful upon lvl advancement though? Stairc, I don't think you've finalized leveling up yet (correct me if I'm wrong), but if you're planning to have stat increases, Donkeys might become OP at later lvls.

-Also, glad to hear you haven't given up on the Zebra race just yet. I know the role-playing might be different, but it just doesn't sit right with me to make Zebras the same as Earth Ponies... I might need to do some research on what MLP's done with them in the past. That might give me more ideas, if you don't like the current template.