Re: Official Errata Suggestion/Discussion Thread (changes you'd like to see made)

[Ramsus]

The Cutie Marquis

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

On the subject of the Adventurer destiny's mechanics; I think it's really solid and Kindulas has come up with a sweet destiny that most people can be happy taking if they don't see another that excites them *or* if they want to just be 20% cooler.

[kajisora]

Yeah, it seems pretty solid. Could work with just about any build

I tend to prefer things like Planeshaper that give you unique abilities as opposed to roll bonuses, but that's just personal preference. Also hard to turn into a general thing.

[Paper Shadow]

On the subject of the Adventurer destiny's mechanics; I think it's really solid and Kindulas has come up with a sweet destiny that most people can be happy taking if they don't see another that excites them *or* if they want to just be 20% cooler.

Oh, we all dig it, don't get it wrong, it's just that some of us (or, at the very least, I) don't like the implications it has for the Explorer Destiny...

Also, I kinda feel that it's dragged discussion away from Heart of Courage, which still needs to be addressed...

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

Same, I like destinies that really set themselves out as unique elements. I think this actually does a good job of doing that, despite its generic skill thing. The roll twice, getting an extra expert skill and the auto-nat-20s are very cool elements (especially if the explorer gets a more-focused level 10 instead, or is removed because I really don't know ho to fix its problems. The suggestion of changing the streetwise bonus to be more general (can't believe we didn't do that before) makes a ton of sense for a buff. However, we'v had real trouble making the abilities feel special, useful and cool - aside from the level 10 (which isn't that much in line with the explorer flavor - and inspired Kindulas' Adventurer to begin with).

[ZamuelNow]

I personally like "The Ace" since it's a simple term for someone who's just really good.  Reflavoring suggestion:

The Ace:

[Xel Unknown]

When it comes to the upgrading Explorer I'd just put that +10 to using Streetsmarts for navigation and tracking... Regardless of enverement one's in.

[Ramsus]

If we want to replace Explorer's level 10 with something.... maybe something that lets you travel anywhere (as long as the place isn't behind a locked door or such) quickly? Like anywhere within sight could take 30 seconds (cut down to Instant if you have the Teleportation Utility), anywhere in 10 miles in three minutes, anywhere within 100 miles 10 minutes, and anywhere further away than that in an hour. The explanation could be something like you know the secret byways and hidden passages of the world and have become an expert on getting from here to there quickly as you more than anyone know the lay of the land. Or something along those lines.

Edit: And to parrot Paper Shadow, would like some response to the Heart of Courage discussion.

[Xel Unknown]

I personally like "The Ace" since it's a simple term for someone who's just really good.  Reflavoring suggestion:

The Ace:

I think this would be a better set up for it's own Destiny... But the Paragon part... Kinda does a little too much and strikes me as too narror for a good "ace" type of thing. I think just allowing it to be a 1/day power to roll three d20s on any skill check would be wiser and overall better.

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If we want to replace Explorer's level 10 with something.... maybe something that lets you travel anywhere (as long as the place isn't behind a locked door or such) quickly? Like anywhere within sight could take 30 seconds (cut down to Instant if you have the Teleportation Utility), anywhere in 10 miles in three minutes, anywhere within 100 miles 10 minutes, and anywhere further away than that in an hour. The explanation could be something like you know the secret byways and hidden passages of the world and have become an expert on getting from here to there quickly as you more than anyone know the lay of the land. Or something along those lines.

Edit: And to parrot Paper Shadow, would like some response to the Heart of Courage discussion.

I support everything said here... Inculding the whole Heart of Courage comment... Even thought I'm more on the "don't change it" side of those talks.

[Quietkal]

Talisman of Vitality - 2000 Gold
Trinket
Once per battle, you may use the following combat talent.

[0] Miraculous Healing - Minor Utility [2/Battle]
Remove all (save ends) conditions from target creature.That creature gains 4 hp for each (save ends) condition removed this way.

What the huh?

[Kindulas]

The "Adventurer" name of the destiny is a nod to the term for player characters in dungeons and dragons - you're adventurers, classically, that's what a DnD party is. So, naming the quintessential generic destiny "Adventurer" makes sense. Furhtermore, the three levels are all the names of the three level tiers from D&D 4.0. I'm rather attached to the reference.

[Kindulas]

Talisman of Vitality - 2000 Gold
Trinket
Once per battle, you may use the following combat talent.

[0] Miraculous Healing - Minor Utility [2/Battle]
Remove all (save ends) conditions from target creature.That creature gains 4 hp for each (save ends) condition removed this way.

What the huh?

good catch

[Kindulas]

Also I agree that evolution's #4 is far too boring.
And it's not like I actually think we need to cut destinies for any reason, we really need a lot more, but I asked that *because* I wanted to replace it with adventurer and I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to bother reworking explorer. I *have* liked the idea of a traveling/teleporting destiny of some kind, though.

[Fury of the Tempest]

When is Self-Discovery gonna be reworked?

Explorer as a fast travel destiny, or at least partilliay is a good idea.

[ZamuelNow]

So, with Heart of Courage there's multiple opinions on it and I have to wonder how much of it is shaped from using the Genetic Engineering document.  I say this since things interact with each other differently when taken piecemeal than when in a preset block.  Still, it something that's worth discussing since it seems like it was built to be an underdog racial when it's actually min-max friendly.  As far as things mentioned concerning handling it:

• Leave as is
  
• Remove outright
  
• Only apply to certain skills
  
• Limited number of uses per day
  
• Reword/adjust its purpose
  

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In other thoughts, this thread can be good but it can also be problematic in that it can get mildly cluttered and questions fall by the wayside.  Still no clue what the end result of the discussions about Weather Crafting will be.  Full discussions are probably better suited for standalone threads while semi-finalized suggestions and typo fixes would seem better here though that's just my opinion.

[kajisora]

Also I agree that evolution's #4 is far too boring.
And it's not like I actually think we need to cut destinies for any reason, we really need a lot more, but I asked that *because* I wanted to replace it with adventurer and I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to bother reworking explorer. I *have* liked the idea of a traveling/teleporting destiny of some kind, though.

A teleport Destiny would be nice.
Maybe have short distance (mark and recall) skills at low level, then acquire long distance abilities ("return to a town you have visited before") at higher levels?

[Stairc -Dan Felder]

So long as it doesn't split the party.

[Philadelphus]

Ohhh - a teleport destiny. Brilliant!
I think I'll make one.

[Philadelphus]

So, I thought I'd bring this up, although it pains me to do so, but: Crushing Blow could probably use a nerf.

I'm currently playing a character with the Buccaneer Blaze special move, Crushing Blow, King of Fools, and Critfisher. Part of my strategy is using Critfisher to roll lots of d8's to trigger my special move. I just took Crushing Blow, and in the first battle I used it I managed to trigger my special move 5 times in one turn (including once from the d12 from Crushing Blow), which knocked out two enemies and ended the fight. I love Crushing Blow, but it's definitely a bit too powerful to be used every time you trigger your special move.

A separate, but related problem, is that I actually forgot to trigger it for the last two times I used my special move, because there was just so much going on. Together, these point to an obvious solution: have it trigger only the first time you trigger you special move, much like King of Fools (which is easy to remember to do only once).

Although I am drawn inexorably towards the conclusion that the above proposal would be the best thing for Crushing Blow going forward, I'm also a bit saddened at nerfing my build, so I wonder if it would possible to perhaps buff the strength of Crushing Blow slightly, since it could only be used at most once per round? Perhaps something like 1d12+1d6? Just some thoughts.

[Fury of the Tempest]

That sounds like a good idea Phil. Reduces the potentail/power of the crit-chains.

[Zarhon]

Well the way I see it, most of Crushing Blow's problems could indeed be fixed by making it activate only once per round.

That way you can't continue an infinite combo out of the d12 Crushing Blow crits (unless the special move triggered itself makes a crit, which for some like the Be Prepared one is an intended mechanic), but there's still a small, 1/12 chance of having the crushing blow damage cause the all-important d12 crit, but only once, so it can't snowball out of proportion and chain forever, or trigger itself for even more damage.

Nerfing its damage or roll die would probably be a bad idea - the main reason most people take it is to get a chance to roll the d12 special specifically, which for many builds is hard to do (due to the inherent cost and 'rarity' of d12 rolls in abilities) and more than a few builds rely on the d12 specials to perform optimally, e.g. Wild Lighting ("free move" builds), Be Prepared ("long chain of crits" or the Assassin's Resolve ("instakill boss") special move builds.

One must also consider that this is a trait that, depending on one's luck or build (few crit rollers), may not trigger at all, and provides no other benefits than a single instance of damage (which in itself also relies on luck to see how effective it is). If it can't give a chance for more crits, or does measly damage, or does nothing at all in any combat due to misfortune... Is it worth taking over other traits?

It's a talent that can be both useless or overpowered, depending solely on how lucky you are and/or how much you focus on crits. My experiences with it were lucky (and fairly awesome/fun, something I'm sure anyone can agree to be an important factor of one's combat) and in a few cases, a lifesaver. Others might find it to have done a minor / inconsequential effect at best.

1d12+1d6 damage to crushing blow sounds kinda awesome, though at the same time seems a bit OP as well - it may not be able to snowball into infinity anymore, but it becomes a lot more reliable and deadly in its damage (and the "damage spike" is one of the two problems described, I believe).

[Kindulas]

Why do those racial/enchantments still have the same name, by the way? They don't do the same thing (not that they ever did), and it's just confusing (especially if both are used by the same person, which is actually expectable given the synergy). Maybe rename that enchantment to something like:

Goat's Hooves
Hookshot
Power Grip
Climber's Contrivance

Good point, just like how we need to change the name on Wild Lightning, the Combat Talent

[Kindulas]

Problem is, crit builds are overpowered period. If you can activate CB so much as twice a battle, it's properly paid for. Once per round without a damage buff is appropriate or still overpowered for crit builds. Critfisher itself remains to be a problem too. Well, special moves remain a problem.

[Cardbo]

These are non-combat items that I'd like to see.  However, I haven't really seen any official non-combat items, so I don't know where to place them.

Magical Keys - [cost ???] - 1/Day

"Magic Keys!  They unlock any door!  Wouldst thou like to purchase one?"

Magical Keys, sometimes called Anti-matter Keys, will open any door or lock, but are quite fragile and can't take much handling.

Skeleton Keys - [cost ???] - 3/Day
Skeleton Keys are like Magical Keys, but much sturdier.

[Kindulas]

These are non-combat items that I'd like to see.  However, I haven't really seen any official non-combat items, so I don't know where to place them.

Magical Keys - [cost ???] - 1/Day

"Magic Keys!  They unlock any door!  Wouldst thou like to purchase one?"

Magical Keys, sometimes called Anti-matter Keys, will open any door or lock, but are quite fragile and can't take much handling.

Skeleton Keys - [cost ???] - 3/Day
Skeleton Keys are like Magical Keys, but much sturdier.

Alas, it is a nessecary evil that because Non-combat items break our "don't mix combat/non-combat elements" rule, they cannot exist as a purchasable item in the core rules of the system

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