Re: Official Errata Suggestion/Discussion Thread (changes you'd like to see made)

Ramsus Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:26 am

*looks at newest additions* Three Utilities just to get line of sight a hundred feet away? That seems a bit steep considering 100 feet away means if you send the Arcane Eye into a large building like a warehouse, you probably have to follow it in for it to look around the whole place. Maybe that second Utility should increase Arcane Eye's range? (By about five times at least if you want the third utility to actually be worth three utilities.)

**Kindulas** Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:39 am

Ramsus wrote:*looks at newest additions* Three Utilities just to get line of sight a hundred feet away? That seems a bit steep considering 100 feet away means if you send the Arcane Eye into a large building like a warehouse, you probably have to follow it in for it to look around the whole place. Maybe that second Utility should increase Arcane Eye's range? (By about five times at least if you want the third utility to actually be worth three utilities.)

Well, the sheer ability to cast talents through walls should not got underestimated, but I can see some kind of boost considering the 2nd doesn't really do anything (though the idea is that it's worth about 2 talents because the 2nd doesn't do much, some kind of range boost is probably reasonable).

Zarhon Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:55 pm

Hm, with the Arcane Eye getting upgrades, there is less and less reason to take "Mind of It's Own" for anything other than flavor.

With the upgrades, Arcane Eye is just plain better is almost all regards, and more importantly, safe to use without risking both discovery (returning limbs leading straight to you) and/or permanent crippling injury to self/others. It really needs some improvement in that regard now.

Flashback sort of allows you to outright copy/trump the effects of "Memory to Mist" by applying a MP, so you effectively get two talents for the price of one. Maybe add some extra benefits to "Memory To Mist" to balance it out?

Mook seems more than a bit overpowered - It makes the Archlich and Vile Villain destiny "minions" benefits redundant, and are outright better than non-upgraded companions in both skills and availability. It also likely causes hell for DMs who employ traps of any kind. There is zero chance of a player using up every mook / not having them up, unless they somehow manage to waste all ten of them on traps that are all instantly 100% lethal (cause nothing says the mook vanishes from damage, or even how it is affected by damage or "death", or crippling injury, or such). They also have an effective maximum duration of 10 hours.

Xel Unknown Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:48 pm

New Utility Mook:

Archlich's Level 4 Feature:

I argue that Mook is in EVERY way better then Zombie Minions... Just because of the fact that Mook get's to last one full hour and it gets more well-rounded stats for the minions... This is totallly insane. Sure Zombie Minions is an at will feature, but you can't get more then like only a few minions out before they keep falling like flys before they can be sent to do anything...

While you can spend a full 10 minutes to get 10 mooks to do things and most of them still got at least 20+ minutes to do things...

If you wisht o keep Mook as it is, I'd suggest giving Zombie Minions some upgrade like making the prep-time faster or something... Maybe even making it Isntant But giving it some limit to how many you can make at a time. Or something... Don't like nerfs, so I'd say you should be giving Zombie Minions a big buff would be the wise move.... Maybe having there be some skill check for the number of zombie minions made and/or how long they last? That might be fun add on to the Archlich's Zombie Minions.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:27 pm

Zarhon wrote:Flashback sort of allows you to outright copy/trump the effects of "Memory to Mist" by applying a MP, so you effectively get two talents for the price of one. Maybe add some extra benefits to "Memory To Mist" to balance it out?

Can't comment on the other stuff, but I know Flashback was supposed to have a prerequisite of Memory to Mist.

Quietkal Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:40 pm

Talisman of Vitality - 2000 Gold
Trinket
Once per battle, you may use the following combat talent.

[0] Miraculous Healing - Minor Utility [2/Battle]
Remove all (save ends) conditions from target creature.That creature gains 4 hp for each (save ends) condition removed this way.

Okay, I know I asked this before, and I know Kindulus ~~or Dan~~ said it was fixed.
What happened guys.
What happened.

Edit: Okay, so I was only told 'good catch,' but still.

Hayatecooper Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:39 am

You guys should probably add the Fly keyword into the Tabletop version, cause it's not in there but there are flying talents and it's weird. (Unless it's elsewhere and I missed it.)

Zarhon Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:18 am

Yeah, it's very vague at the moment, both in what it does, how it works, how it interacts with "falling down" (from becoming prone, though do other effects cause it to fall down or land? Stuns? Restrained/Immobilized?), or with some of the abilities that cause "zones" where you move (do they float in midair, or drop to the ground?), and how flying works with blocking terrain (can you go over it, or stand on top of it?).

And speaking of blocking terrain, the rules say jumping lets you bypass it - but can you land on top of it (say, a wall, rather than some hazardous surface)?

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:34 pm

Flying follows D&D 4e rules.

Jumping is basically teleporting. You need line of sight to where you want to go.

tygerburningbright Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:46 pm

Can someone write those down here for those of us that haven't used 4E?

ZamuelNow Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:38 pm

Ditto. Many here have noted that this is their first RPG and even if not, such info should assume players haven't played other systems.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:40 pm

Indeed. Nehiel is supposed to be working on a comprehensive rule explanation, though I haven't heard back from him lately.

Fly involves moving through the air that many spaces. Just make sure you land at the end of your movement. However, if you're knocked prone while flying - you fall.

**Philadelphus** Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:08 pm

Ah, ok, thanks. I'm planning on starting up a campaign using the tabletop rules soon, so you'll probably start seeing a lot more questions about them. Smile

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:15 pm

Awesome.

ZamuelNow Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:06 pm

Bringing things back to Grandeur and You’re All My Very Best Friends, I have suggestions for both though one is obviously based on another player's suggestion.

Spoiler:

The YAMVBF suggestion is inspired by the Inspire skill from Mutants and Masterminds which was burning their equivalent of a Magic Point in order to buff all ally rolls for one turn. Here, it sorta turns into dividing the +10 bonus from a MP among the team.

SparkImpulse Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:29 pm

Philadelphus wrote:I'm planning on starting up a campaign using the tabletop rules soon

Via the forum like I'm doing, or do you mean you have physical friends meeting at your place to RP ponies killing ponies?

If the latter, ... ... you're not at my end of the country, are you? Hmm?

RavenscroftRaven Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:29 am

Now, this is likely something that is not supposed to be happen-able, dunno if I mentioned it, but for the destinies, many of them grant you weird talents that you can't select as level-up talents, right?

Now, Element of Magic grants you any talent you have the pre-requisites for, not only talents that are pickable by you... And the destinies nowhere mention that the destiny is a prerequisite for their granted talent...

So could an EoM use their MP to gain access to one of those talents? Or, on a lesser scale with the destinies are prereqs, could a Lich Destiny EoM use their Magic to get the other of their "pick one of two" abilities?

The former is something that needs an errata hit, the latter though is mostly just a "creative people could do this, I dunno the exacts" kind of thing.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:56 am

Definitely not intended to have Element of Magic copy destiny-only talents. We'll have to eratta that

**Philadelphus** Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:03 am

Off-topic reply:

On the topic of You're All My Very Best Friends: I'd argue that since you're splitting it up among party members, it should give you slightly more in total than you would get from simply dividing ten by five, because a concentrated +10 on a single person's targeted check is usually of more use than you would by dividing that same +10 equally among 5 other creatures. The situations this would be mainly useful in are the ones where you hear "Everyone roll an Endurance check!" (or things of that sort), and you often really want more than just a +2 bonus for those situations.

Maybe you could increase the bonus, but specify a time limit on it? Like +5 to their next check made within the next minute? Or maybe find some way to make it not Magic?

ZamuelNow Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:28 pm

My primary concern is minions, summons, and NPC allies. I'd like to see it be able to work for them (stand and give epic speech and charge in) but it would need to be balanced with larger groups in mind.

ZamuelNow Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:35 pm

The more I sit and think about it...the harder it is for me to justify Streetwise as a skill. I was originally on board for trying to suggest things for it but it feels fruitless. It's not commonly used, lacks any utilities or destinies now that Explorer has been removed from the game, has a poorly defined description, and is really only a composite of other skill concepts in a specialized way. It's really the last two that cause the most problems. Perception and Persuasion already cover most of what Streetwise does and dropping it gives more breathing room for History to be an all around research skill that could include local customs. Streetwise is the only skill that winds up needing a paragraph as opposed to a sentence to describe.

The problem is figuring out where we go from here. While part of me rather strongly feels that Streetwise should be replaced with something else, the issue is that doing so, despite how unused it is, consists of a rather large system change and is not something to take lightly. However, what I think would be better is if instead of Streetwise, Perception was split into "Perception" for physical details and "Insight" for reading emotions and subsequently resistance against mind altering effects. Easier to define, already has utilities, easier to come up with new utilities, doesn't cause many problems for someone's attribute focus, yet it breaks up one of the game's stronger flat skills for training. I think it's important to note flat skills since Arcana's infamy comes from Magecraft, a utility talent that's already on the radar for rebalancing because of the potential negative effect it has on the game. Arcana as just a base skill or even with most utilities has limits to its worth. Breaking up Perception also has a different benefit to the system as a whole in that it means Sense/Horse-Sense doesn't have a blatantly universal dump stat anymore. Both Perception and Insight would have use in pretty much all campaigns and it would just depend on what what's more important for the character.

The concept of Streetwise could still be portrayed through most Insight rolls and through Freaky Knowledge. All things considered, it could probably become a specialized utility talent.

Hayatecooper Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:37 pm

ZamuelNow wrote:The more I sit and think about it...the harder it is for me to justify Streetwise as a skill. I was originally on board for trying to suggest things for it but it feels fruitless. It's not commonly used, lacks any utilities or destinies now that Explorer has been removed from the game, has a poorly defined description, and is really only a composite of other skill concepts in a specialized way. It's really the last two that cause the most problems. Perception and Persuasion already cover most of what Streetwise does and dropping it gives more breathing room for History to be an all around research skill that could include local customs. Streetwise is the only skill that winds up needing a paragraph as opposed to a sentence to describe.

The problem is figuring out where we go from here. While part of me rather strongly feels that Streetwise should be replaced with something else, the issue is that doing so, despite how unused it is, consists of a rather large system change and is not something to take lightly. However, what I think would be better is if instead of Streetwise, Perception was split into "Perception" for physical details and "Insight" for reading emotions and subsequently resistance against mind altering effects. Easier to define, already has utilities, easier to come up with new utilities, doesn't cause many problems for someone's attribute focus, yet it breaks up one of the game's stronger flat skills for training. I think it's important to note flat skills since Arcana's infamy comes from Magecraft, a utility talent that's already on the radar for rebalancing because of the potential negative effect it has on the game. Arcana as just a base skill or even with most utilities has limits to its worth. Breaking up Perception also has a different benefit to the system as a whole in that it means Sense/Horse-Sense doesn't have a blatantly universal dump stat anymore. Both Perception and Insight would have use in pretty much all campaigns and it would just depend on what what's more important for the character.

The concept of Streetwise could still be portrayed through most Insight rolls and through Freaky Knowledge. All things considered, it could probably become a specialized utility talent.

Qouting all of this cause this is brilliant. Changing it to insight(Especially if that means it's more focused on body language, lying, understanding the concepts of things) would make a lot more character options actually make sense instead of "Oh I want to have a X character who can read ponies really well but pays attention to basically nothing else." Other concepts exist of course, but first one that came to my mind.

Anyway
I would support this change a lot, cause at the moment Perception covers such a huge range and is so stupidly good a couple of nerfs/changes to it, wouldn't go amiss.

A1C Bronymous Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:47 pm

And then what about the "knowing the streets" function. Knowing certain areas of a city, knowing where to find certain ponies, knowing how to act and what to pretend to be when need be? insight only covers one of those. Also, if you take the expanded function of streetwise to include Survival skills, then all of those then go out the window and have to be relegated to things that aren't as comprehensive- history or heal to identify safe to eat plants, perception to track (which is already a thing, admittedly), and whatever to build shelters, hunt, and navigate the wilderness. Insight as it is here doesn't cover any of that.

Ramsus Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:54 pm

I still don't agree myself. Not gonna argue that aspects of Streetwise could in theory be handled by other skills, largely because that could be said of any other skill in the system. Mostly, I really don't want to see an Insight skill. I think we lose more than we gain by separating Perception into parts since not everything is going to fall neatly into one "half" or the other. I wouldn't mind if we changed Streetwise to specifically include Survival usage, since right now there is no skill that does that officially, which is really weird since forests, animals, and poisonous plants are all well established parts of the show cannon. Still, that doesn't need its own skill and would function better with those two skills coupled together.

Edit: Ninja'd by Bronymous.

Xel Unknown Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:59 pm

I would support a rename for Streetwise to better convay it can be used for more then just while in a city to learn random info about a place... Having it be an overall stat for knowing how to learn the lay of the land and what to do with things... Would impove the stat to be better used by everyone.

And really, I don't like the the train of logic here of: "we don't got anything that uses this stat, so let's remove it and replace it with something else and nerf a second stat just cause." I'd aruge that means we gotta build ourselves some Streetwise Utilities, Racials, and Densities for the skill in question.

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